[CONTENT WARNING: Misogynistic violence, rape apologia]
His complaint was a familiar one:
I think every girl is a type of slut, they are fussy with men nowadays, they do not give boys like us a chance.
You can find nearly identical laments in the profiles of self-described “nice guys” on OkCupid, on Men’s Rights blogs, and on forums for self-described “Incels” comisserating about their “involuntary celibacy” and what they see as the shallowness of young women.
But these words actually come from a video filmed by Ben Moynihan, a British teenager who was convicted of attempted murder earlier this week after stabbing three women in an attempt to take a sort of revenge upon the “weaker” gender he felt had made his life miserable by denying him sex. Another young man trying to punish women with violence for the “crime” of not dating him.
“I am still a virgin,” he wrote in one note. “Everyone is losing it before me, that’s why you are my chosen target.” In another note, he declared that “all women needs to die and hopefully next time I can gauge [sic] their eyes out.”
Moynihan’s twisted logic is of course eerily similar to that of Elliot Rodger, who went on a shooting spree in Isla Vista last spring in an attempt to “punish” women for their lack of interest in dating him, which he declared to be “a crime that can never be forgiven.”
Thankfully, Moynihan, unlike Rodger, was captured by police before he actually succeeded in killing anyone.
Not so thankfully, both of these men have their fans, including some amongst the usual suspects I write about on this blog. On the incel hangout slutHATE – the successor to PUAhate, on which Elliot Rodger was an occasional commenter – both Rodger and Moynihan have become heroes of a sort to some of the more bitter commenters. Or at least the source of much amusement.
In response to news about Moynihan’s trial, one slutHATEr posted a thread asking “Okay, which one of you did this?” “A new supreme gentleman rises,” wrote another in a different thread devoted to the would-be killer.
A third commenter, going by the name Homesick Alien, asked the question “Are Females days numbered?” listing an assortment of incels who’d killed “females” in an act of twisted “revenge” for their lackluster or nonexistent dating lives. In the comments, Homesick Alien chillingly wrote that
I’m sure someone somehow is rightfully very rageful currently planning the next shooting spree . We can only hope it’ll be more elaborate. Female entitlement is off the charts now, they are out of control,. It’s about time they are put in their fucking place.
Another posted a link to Rodger’s 150-page manifesto, suggesting that “it has the potential to motivate incels to damage the females.”
In a thread from several months ago, a slutHATEr calling himselt NewGenious119 went after fellow incels for not supporting shooting sprees enthusiastically enough.
Seriously, is there something mentally wrong with you? Thinking that a school full of sluts and frat stars getting slain by an incel is a bad thing is characteristic of a normalfag mindset. Our ONLY hope for ever getting to fuck multiple hot sluts is if there are enough incels in the western world who snap and cause bloodshed. It’s the only way that sluts and alphas will realize and accept that there are serious consequences for allowing so many males to live their lives in misery.
Emphasis mine.
As it turned out, there was no need for him to worry that other incels didn’t support spree killngs aimed at “sluts,” as assorted commenters soon let him know.
The rogue MRA and American-Women-Boycotter who calls himself John Rambo seconded his sentiment, writing
I wouldn’t do one myself. But I wouldn’t prevent one from happening if I knew it would as long as I wouldn’t die or a girl that willing to fuck me would. …
Honestly, I truly have very little sympathy for the victims.
A commenter calling himself Worthless Trash only had one complaint: that the death tolls weren’t higher.
I just wish these guys would make better plans and kill their targets and more of them, but sadly most of them have a weakened will-power after all the years of rejections and maybe bullying.
Also i don’t care if it will solve the problem or not, i just feel better hearing this, it’s like divine justice, they feel so superior but in the end they die like worms, just like they treat other guys, like worms, so in the end we are all equal.
Still others offered their assent:
I personally rejoice whenever I hear news of a school shooting.
The higher the death count, the better
i like their kill count high, because it’s always satisfying seeing someone arrogant going from rich to poor, beautiful too ugly from popular to dead
While a few commenters spoke out against the idea of mass murder as a reasonable response to a lack of dates, they were in the distinct minority.
And then there was this guy:
i support ERism [Elliot Rodgerism], but I would never do it myself, my brother is a doctor and his career would be ruined if our family name ever got tarnished
It would be a little easier to dismiss all this as merely internet dumbassery, were it not for the fact that Rodger went out and killed 6 people after posting similar comments on the message board that later became slutHATE.
While commenters like these are a distinct minority even in the sordid world of the manosphere, the sad and scary fact is that there are a frightening number of young and not-so-young men who have embraced one of the central assumptions of the murder-spree-supporting incels of slutHATE – the notion that women who put “nice guys” in the “friend zone” are committing some kind of crime against them, and deserve to be punished for it, individually or collectively.
You can see variations on this in assorted memes attacking women – much as Moynihan and Rodgers did – for supposedly preferring “bad boys” and assholes over the “nice guys” of the world.
Other “friend zone” memes are a bit darker.
And darker still:
And somehow even darker than that:
And we’re just begun to scratch the surface here.
In a followup post, I will look at the ways in which the rampant “slutbashing” of Men’s Rights Activists and other manosphere denizens helps to feed the toxic culture of aggrieved sexual entitlement that has contributed to violence against women.
I’m not sure why it’s the fault of feminism that men still commit acts of violent misogyny. We’re not the ones who invented toxic masculinity and pushed it on men. We’re the ones who oppose the status quo.
How?
There’s another citation needed.
Someone needs to go look up what sex-positive feminism really means and it’s not me.
You already made one numbered list, and I don’t normally read or respond to those. You don’t get a second free pass. Numbered lists are the refuge of the intellectually bankrupt, which describes most trolls and certainly describes you.
I mean, people still die in childbirth even in the best hospitals. People still get sick or die from pregnancy complications (and even a healthy pregnancy is physically and emotionally taxing). People can still be disfigured or disabled by childbirth. “How is birth control a medical issue?” Really?
Do you really think that calling [men] entitled or having culture teach them that their anger is just entitlement is going to prevent violence?
Well… yes. If you teach a man that a woman is a human being with wants and needs of her own, first and foremost, and that she deserves to be respected in her choices, then yes. When you’re taught that “no” is a valid answer, it may not necessarily take away frustration or disappointment, but your respect for that choice leaves you on much healthier ground emotionally.
For instance: if you’re preparing dinner for friends, and they tell you they would rather not eat what is on your proposed menu, you probably feel inclined to respond with violence. Because they, for whatever reason, have informed you that they have made a choice they would like you to respect. Even if that choice temporarily inconveniences you, or if you’re disappointed that you don’t get to show off your skill in making a particular dish, their choice is not a personal insult, and you can change up the menu to the best of your ability and get on with your life.
Teaching a man to hear and respect “no” is no different from teaching a man to hear and respect “please don’t use walnuts in your salad”. You wouldn’t respond to one of those things by posting angry remarks on forums and threatening violence; when you have the perspective to realize that the other of those things is just as much about a decision and not some notion of being owed something, you likely won’t feel the need to respond to that with violence either.
well, POM, he does start with a numbered list, but it degenerates into more tl;dr.
Oh people, don’t confuse Tom with the facts. He’s determined to keep nailing his grievances to the door of Wittenberg Cathedral, apparently…
@emilygoddess
It’s not like there are doctors who specialize in pregnancy or anything. Pregnancy and the medical care surrounding it aren’t part of the health care complex, obviously!
Oh my god, Tom, please stop. We know what you’re saying. We think you’re wrong. We’re not misunderstanding you; we just don’t agree with you. You’re not going to convince us because:
a) We don’t agree with you
b) You’re not really responding to our points, you’re just posting the same argument over and over because you seem to think we’re too stupid to get it
c) We don’t agree with you
d) WE DON’T AGREE WITH YOU.
Bina
Hugs if you want them
You forgot the “if she is a HB 8-10, under 30 and interested in random one-night stands” And because this is not “on average” you are wrong. And an asshole.
I think he defines trying to create a society where men don’t define themselves by the amount of sex they’ve got is attempts to make sure all men get the exact amount of sex they want. So yeah.
Also, I have live-action brain bleach in the form of a kitten mutual grooming session going on two feet from my chair.
Thanks. It was a loooooong time ago (I am Sexually Invisible, I am An Old), so I’m loooooong over it. But I get the feeling that since Tom is determined to think that women can all just get laid as easily as falling down and opening their legs, I feel duty-bound to set the idiot straight, even if it is kind of like shouting “Helloooooooo, anyone in there?” down an empty hole…
The lesson here is that there is reason or logic when talking to feminists. I already knew that. It turns out there is no compassion either. You guys are having a nice little circle jerk. I may be right in what I am saying, but it’s much easier to tell each other that I’m wrong because feminism.
How did sex positive feminism create this? Men have been committing violence against women since long before first wave feminism existed. Let alone the third wave sex positive feminism. Just one example, women were very supportive of prohibition in the US because men were drinking, picking up STIs from prostitutes and coming home drunk and beating their wives. I don’t know how this can possibly be an argument.
The only difference is that the days we have the internet and that allows misogynists to commiserate with each other.
I’m done with tommy boy he keeps repeating himself and is not listening to us.
Here’s some brain bleach
http://youtu.be/vj49TwdIPKY
I would really like to hear Tom’s explanation of why they’re not doing this.
Your little Freudian slip made your statement here 100% correct. Some part of you knows you’re being a world-class dick. Maybe someday you’ll meet that part of yourself and have an honest conversation with it.
Bitter, party of one?
We are telling you you’re wrong because you are wrong. We offered solid, concrete reasons, and even personal experiences that PROVE you wrong. You are the one devoid of reason, logic and compassion. Please take your masturbation elsewhere now.
Good. Glad we can fucking agree now that you’re backpedaling.
No it is not.
No it is not.
Only if you prioritize sex higher than anything else in your life, as many incels do.
Get those guys a goddamned hobby. Or a kitten.
We only demonize people who do “nice” things with the expectation that they’ll get sex/a relationship/affection from a woman.
If you’re doing nice things just because they’re nice things, then we have no problem.
We’re not demonizing nice people. We’re demonizing Nice Guys who think that women are sex dispensers who they can put Nice Coins into until they get what they want, and then turn around and demonize and harm women for not doing what they wanted them to do even if women have no interest in actually fucking them, or any knowledge that that’s what the man wanted them to do.
So can women. But I’ve never attacked anyone or wished death or pain and suffering on anyone who did reject me.
The problem is when the guy won’t let that shit go and he harbors it and nurtures it. He blames the woman for not wanting him, even though she has no control over who she finds sexually or romantically attractive, and then that translates into more misogyny.
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHH…*deep breath*…AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHHAH
Okay, allow me to introduce you to someone: OKCThrowaway22221.
http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1uqym6/as_a_guy_i_wanted_to_know_what_it_was_like_to_be/
Essentially, this guy thought that women have it easier when it comes to dating, so he made a fake OKC profile and pretended to be a woman.
He had to delete the profile after four hours because he couldn’t take it.
From his post:
I put in some bold for emphasis.
Women do NOT have it easier than men. We have to worry about being murdered and wade through seas of unwanted dick pics, harassment, and other bullshit.
“It’s all FEMINISM’S fault that they’re getting angry with you! Because you wanted sexual freedom to tell men who you weren’t interested in no, and now they feel rejected because you didn’t want to sleep with an asshole who thinks sex with you is something he’s entitled to!”
Fuck off Tommy Boy.
Citation needed. And “everybody knows” doesn’t count.
And that still doesn’t justify killing people, or calling for them to be killed.
1) Those aren’t needs. They’re urges.
2) If it’s very difficult to live without those things (and I don’t disagree that some people may take it very hard), I recommend therapy. Take it from someone who used to have anger issues: it’s much easier to change how you react to people than to change how people act. If you’re depressed about being lonely, get therapy. Don’t try to kill people, or cheer on those who do.
Actually, it’s to survive. Also, we are capable of rational thought and while we still have our more basic animal impulses, we are capable of overcoming them and they are no longer an acceptable excuse for bad behavior. Like KILLING PEOPLE and CHEERING ON MURDERERS.
This post is about AN ATTEMPTED MURDERER and the people CHEERING HIM ON. Fuck your apologetics and fuck you.
Group vote: are we having fun batting him around, or is it (mod)hammer time?
Alas, this question seems not to have fallen in line with Tom’s number list, so he chose not to touch it. That’s about what I expect from a libertarian: completely ignoring the existence of anything that doesn’t comply with pre-existing ideology.