Oh dear. Paul Elam’s attempt to anoint himself King of the MGTOWs doesn’t seem to be going terribly well, mainly due to the fact that the overwhelming majority of those who call themselves Men Going Their Own Way would prefer it if he went his own way off a short pier.
His new ebook on MGTOW — despite receiving rave reviews from people who work for him at A Voice for Men — has not done quite as well amongst the MGTOW masses, many of whom are posting one-star reviews on Amazon.
Their complaints are a mixture of the reasonable and the ridiculous. On the one hand, they accuse him of being a con artist trying to cash in on their little movement with an ebook made up mostly of stuff that’s already been posted on the internet. On the other, well, they think he’s some kind of quasi-feminist supplicator to women who’s committed a sort of treason against his fellow men by not banning all women from AVFM. No, really:
On their own websites, Elam’s MGTOW haters are even more blunt. Here’s what one commenter on MGTOWHQ had to say:
But my favorite response so far comes from a Youtuber who calls himself TheMadShangi. A few months ago, Mr. Shangi was a loyal AVFMer; indeed, he contributed a post to Elam’s site gleefully recounting how he’d been such a royal pain in the ass to me on Twitter that I stopped responding to him. (Or, as he put it, How I made David Futrelle cry and ragequit on Twitter.)
Well, these days he’s singing a different tune. Literally. Here’s his musical critique of Mr. Elam and his book.(The bit at the beginning is from a video Elam made baiting his MGTOW haters.)
Both sides in this MGTOW civil war are so thoroughly terrible I can only hope that they both go down in ignominious defeat, leaving us, the amused spectators, the only real winners.
They’re hoping for sex robots and artificial wombs so they can have sex and procreate without us. It seems a little hasty to get started before these technologies are available.
I just finally got around to watching the video. OMG! That was so bad I had to stop it. One thing that stood out to me though was at the beginning was Pauly saying he was going to do to them what he has done to feminist to sale books. He cares so much about men and boys, does he?
I may have to legally change my name to Princess Cupcake 🙂
Better yet, Queen MuffinTop!
Until that song, I never realized anyone would pronounce MGTOW as “Migtow.”
I wasn’t aware they could get more hilarious.
Their lifestyle (and furniture) isn’t nearly as attractive as the Shakers, and look what happened to them. There’s only one active Shaker community left, and they have three members. The youngest is 57.
MGTOW are going to have to offer something a lot more attractive than “women suck and we refuse to make enough money to participate in the tax system and SEXBOTS!” if they want to be successful at recruiting. I mean, at least offer a free toaster oven or something.
Ehhhhh, there are plenty of movements that don’t revolve around creating human beings and grooming them to follow the rhetoric blindly. Granted, they generally aren’t as mind-bogglingly idiotic and vitriolic as MTGOW.
But still, implying that procreating is the be-all and end-all of a movement is kind of problematic, considering that’s used for arguments against gay rights, among other things.
It’s not that not-procreating and celibacy are bad goals for individuals, it’s that the movements themselves, in order to be sustainable and successful, have to have a way to perpetuate themselves baked into the system. If the intent is for people to voluntarily join the movement as adults, then that movement needs to be compelling enough to attract enough new followers over time to maintain critical mass. Completely shunning women (which implies celibacy) isn’t all that enticing to most people, unless sex isn’t a big deal to begin with, or there’s a large enough goal to make the sacrifice worth it, such as spiritual enlightenment. MGTOW is sorely lacking on the “larger goal” front. It’s just a loose collection of men who want to sit around hating women.
Gay rights probably isn’t the best analogy because you don’t “recruit” people into homosexuality – people are born with their orientation. Gay isn’t going away anytime soon.
Good point. There is no carrot in the MGTOW movement, just whining and bitter feelings. Like, if constantly blaming someone else for your problems (or perceived problems) is your thing, and you want the scapegoat to be women, then MGTOW is for you. But if you actually want to move forward and make a life for yourself with no women involved, well, you’d honestly be better off becoming a monk.
I think the Going just sounds too much like a threat; there seems to be an undercurrent running through a lot of the prominent(?) MGTOWs of Don’t Make Me Do This. It’s the ones one generally doesn’t see, who are genuinely Gone without making any fanfare about it and with a positive vision instead of a negative one, who seem more or less okay.
If these guys consider their Going to be some kind of threat, and that women will be clamoring for them to Come Back, they are sorely mistaken. No one will miss them. Funny how obnoxiousness tends to have that effect…
Sunnysombrera:
It’s alright. It’s expensive, but there’s lots to do and there’s pretty alright public transportation. There are a few issues about neighborhoods though. I live in a neighborhood that’s experiencing a resurgence because people now think it’s “cool” to live here. “Hipsters” and the like. We have quite a few of those. Not that it’s bad, but there’s also gentrification to worry about.
It also doesn’t get heinously cold during the winter. We get rain, and it gets chilly at night, but during the day it’s not so bad.
@Paradoxical
Ugh gentrification. London is having a massive problem with that (I don’t live in London but I understand it’s the increasing influx of wealthy people plus greedy landlords that are driving up rents). Bristol has become known as “Hipster Central” and also gotten more expensive. Hopefully things will even out for you guys in Sacramento.
Weirwoodtreehugger:
Is that a thing, artificial wombs? People are actually working on it and it’s not some 2000AD fantasy?
Yes, artificial wombs are a real thing that scientists are working on.
@DJG Yeah, the idea that they’re a bona fide movement, with the implied threat of “if you don’t fall back in line, ladies, all men everywhere will secede!” seems to be their main source of (imaginary) leverage. They keep claiming that every day millions of men are “waking up to reality” and joining the ranks of MGTOW. If it was just individuals quietly slipping away into hobbies and monasteries and confirmed bachelorhood, how could they ever terrify women back into submission?
I especially love it when they get all dramatic and warn “All the good men are leaving!” As if. It’s pretty axiomatic that good men don’t have giant public foot-stomping fits about how terrible, repulsive, and life-and-wallet-sapping women are.
I just love how men threaten women with men not pleasuring themselves with us/leaving us alone/denying us their presence. I see this all the damn time too, and it never fails to make me laugh.
I saw a tumblr post circulating again where women were participating in No Shave November, and some guy came on the post and said “Be prepared to participate in No Dick December”, and he got shut down by other tumblr users in the best of ways. (Mostly the guy just got told that no one wants his dick anyways, and we can buy dildos that we don’t have to fake orgasms for while they whine their irrelevant opinions about our body hair.)
I think it speaks volumes to what kind of people the MGTOWs are that they think the greatest punishment for women is to deprive us of their presence. (And then proceed to stick around and threaten us with it some more like it’s actually working and we’re going to come BEGGING for them to stay at any second now…any second…soon…).
I’m kind of reminded of this clip I saw on America’s Funniest Home Videos a long time ago where this kid was standing outside wearing his backpack, and his mom was recording him, and he kept saying “I’m going to run away, mom.” And his mom kept going “But you know you can’t cross the street.” And they got into this silly argument where the kid kept saying “But HOW can I run away if I can’t cross the street?!”
The only difference is that the kid actually wants to leave.
MGTOWs: “Women are evil money grubbing harpies and we hate them. Also they have cooties. Disgruntled self entitled men, join us! Ladies, fear us!”
Ladies: “Um, why?”
MGTOWs: “Because unless you become the submissive wives and sex dolls we want you to be we’re going to leave you alone! Which means you can’t have our money or sleazy attention! Hah!”
Ladies:”…okay bye. We’ll just get jobs and then partner up with the men who actually see us as people. Plenty of fish in the sea.”
MGTOWs: “Wait what? But but you’ll miss us! What will you do without us?”
Ladies: “We’ll be fine. Just go already, and take your hate sites with you.”
MGTOWs: “When we have our sexbots and artifical wombs you’ll be sorry! Feminism will crumble! Women will be slaves to men!”
Ladies: “Don’t hold your breath. Anyway, could you please GO AWAY ALREADY?”
Somehow, I’m still always surprised when someone gets mad that Paul Elam isn’t enough of a misogynist.
It’s so funny. They want everyone to believe that they would have children artificially in a lab if they could. But that’s not so. If you don’t have a woman slave cleaning up after the baby’s mess, what’s the point? They’d never volunteer to be primary caregiver –that’s a cruddy women’s job. They don’t even like child support, for Christ’s sake. They want heirs, maybe, but not with all the hassles. They complain about having to wipe their own asses, for goodness sakes. Artificial wombs on the other hand, would benefit women, which they don’t seem to get…
Also, their sperm gets crappy after 40, since it reproduces by cloning. No one’s missing anything, boys.
From 1907, a warning that men will go their own way:
It is man’s inability to cope with the ser vants and landladies and holes in his socks that finally drives him into matrimony. Were every man his own cook and seamstress the marriage registrar could shut up his shop and go out of business. Everything that makes man independent of woman reduces woman’s chances of marriage.
and how those women who are teaching boys to sew will answer to the husbandless girls of the next generation is a question we must leave with their consciences to settle. When the young man of the future takes to himself a sewing-basket instead of a wife, women will only have themselves to blame for it.— Dorothy Dix.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article163662028
::eyeroll::
They keep forgetting — men invented marriage.
It’s almost like some people pair up for reasons that have nothing to do with survival level necessity…
And that it was men making sure women were kept out of as many jobs where they could support themselves as possible.