There’s a post on the AgainstMensRights subreddit today highlighting a comment from a Men’s Rights Redditor that offers some, well, interesting theories about why feminists are “obsessed” with rape and abortion, even though he thinks they are very ugly.
Actually, in his mind, it’s because they are very ugly, and secretly wish someone would be attracted enough to them to rape them.
I’m sure there are MRAs out there who would like to dismiss his posting as the ravings of a random Redditor. Sadly, it’s not. Despite the terribleness of his “explanation,” or perhaps because of it, it seems to be a common one amongst Manosphereians and Men’s Rightsers.
Indeed, in one notorious post a couple of years ago, A Voice for Men founder and all-around garbage human Paul Elam — probably the most important person in the Men’s Rights movement today — offered a much cruder version of this argument. [TRIGGER WARNING for some primo rape apologism. I have bolded the worst bits, and archived the post here in case Elam decides to take it down, as he has been doing with some of his more repellant posts].
.
.
.
Isn’t it more than just a little fascinating that underneath all this hoopla about rape is a whole lot of women who, when thinking about some guy pinning them down in a kitchen and forcing a hand up their blouse, generally tend to do so with their own hand or a vibrator between their legs? …
And isn’t it also interesting that the most rape obsessive morons on the planet also happen to be some of the ugliest morons on the planet?
Consider this. If rape awareness was a religion, Andrea Dworkin was The Fucking Pope. The 300+ lb. basilisk of man-hate had a face big enough and pockmarked enough to be used to fake a lunar landing. Her body was roughly the size and shape of a small sperm whale.
And she thought of little else in her life other than rape. The subject drove almost everything she said and did.
She even claimed to have been drugged and raped in 1999 in Paris, an accusation that was never proven and which came under a great deal of scrutiny, apparently for damned good reason.
C’mon people, Dworkin’s problem wasn’t that she was raped. Her problem, and I mean all along, was that she wasn’t.
Oh, it gets worse:
Like a corrupt televangelist who only shuts up about sexual purity and morality long enough to secure the services of a five dollar hooker, Dworkin was the poster child for “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
Or, in other words, she was obsessed with rape, quite possibly even creating the illusion it happened to her, precisely because her worth on the sexual market was measured in pesos.
Dworkin wanted to be raped, which in her mind meant being sexually desired, but didn’t have the goods to make that happen so she made a career of hating both the source of her rejection, men, and the source of her competition, attractive women.
In the end, the most narcissistic of all Men’s Rightsers concludes that rape is all about female narcissism:
The concept of rape has a lot of utility for women. One, it feeds their narcissistic need to feel irresistible. Two, if feeds their narcissistic need to feel irresistible. That level of irresistibility is the pinnacle of a woman’s sexual viability and worth. And for a whole lot of women, sexual worth is the only self-worth they know.
A Voice for Men’s domestic violence mascot Erin Pizzey seconded Elam’s argument during an appearance of hers last year on Reddit.
If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this
This is an “insight” that many other manosphereians keep reinventing and announcing to the world. In a 2013 post, for example, the “Red Pill” blogger and sometime Return of Kings contributor who calls himself TheMaskAndRose offered a very similar take on the subject.
Feminists are ugly women. They are fat, old, masculine, aggressive, hateful, sociopathic, unattractive, or any combination of those things. Attractive women tend not to be Feminists, so I encourage you to think about why that’s the case. So keeping in mind that they’re not the type of women who normal men desire or pay any attention to, here’s my theory:
Rape culture is the ugly woman’s rape fantasy. …
I think the true heart of a rape fantasy is narcissism.
I think it’s about the idea of saying NO to a man, over and over, but he throws caution to the wind and gives into the animal instinct to just overtake you–because you’re so attractive, so beautiful, so alluring, so irresistible that he just can’t help himself.
It’s about being wanted, more than anything else. Wanted so badly that a man would risk throwing his whole life away just for the chance to put his penis in you.
So, since Feminists and unattractive women generally don’t have men paying any attention to them at all–at least not the sexual kind of attention they crave but won’t admit to … they instead cast themselves in the role of heroine in a cultural narrative whereby men think they’re just so fucking deliciously hot that they can’t wait for the chance to rape them.
They project that insanity onto the world around them, and voila–“rape culture.” A world full of scary men so overtaken with lust and desire for these fat, ugly, manly cow-beasts that you never know when one of them is going to risk his career, family, money, and life outside of prison just to have sex with you.
There is, of course, a much simpler explanation for why feminists tend to be “obsessed” with rape: because it happens all the fucking time.
I love honey-salted peanuts. Anyone else ?
I don’t subscribe to the belief abusive men can’t change. I’m pretty sure most of them are just normal people who are as capable of change as anyone else and it’s going to vary a great deal with age and where they live how easy embracing that change is..
I just don’t believe it’s likely they will change. Society doesn’t expect them to. They expect women to leave abusive men and for other women to avoid them. That being the case, I have literally zero control over abusive men changing and, knowing it’s unlikely they will, have the choice to either a) try to change them, b) wait around for them to change themself or c) be with men who aren’t abusers.
I know which decision I’m making and it doesn’t involve investing myself and my well-being in changing others.
Gilshalos:
Salted cashews all the way.
Nuh, uh. Roasted unsalted cashews for me.
Of course, I’ve never been known to turn down pistachios nor macadamias. Ooooh, macadamias. Oh well. I’m too tired, it’s too late to go out and get some.
For people who don’t have time to read Why Does He Do That, or who just don’t feel like doing that much reading, this may be useful.
http://westislandwomensshelter.org/home/early-warning-signs-and-early-beginnings-of-an-abusive-relationship/
Bulbous bouffant!
I’ve never had them, but that sounds delicious.
mildlymagnificent, unsalted cashews for me, too!
Or at least, for me when Mum hasn’t nabbed them all first. 😉
I swear, GOM seems like two different people sometimes. His short, interesting, funny posts and his long, annoying, mansplain-y teal deers…
Brazil nuts. In any form including with the shells on & a pair of nutcrackers provided, although the local traditional sweet shop near us stocks chocolate coated ones which are lush.
Literally the sentence before that:
So…you want to be aware of how men as a group see the world and respond to it differently than women, but when it comes to you specifically, you want people to pretend those differences don’t exist? Is that what you’re saying?
And yet when we do, you play the victim (“can I come out now?”) or post distractions (“hey look! A funny sign!”) or just disappear entirely.
Holy crap, do you think so?
So…not only have you not been listening to women, you’ve been not listening to the conversations ON THIS VERY BLOG.
No, seriously, where have you been when we’ve been saying exactly this, over and over, all over this blog (not to mention this being feminism 101 stuff)? Do you even go here?
And, that’s what I miss when I go to bed early.
Very nice choking PSA, contrapangloss! I was just going to say “for the love of Bootsy! Never ever ever ever put your hands on someone’s throat unless you actually want them dead or messed up for the rest of their lives!”. And now, I’m thinking sadly of all the people I’ve met who had hypoxic brain injuries… 🙁
I would like to add one thing about anal sex (only for those who don’t already know) be gentle, be careful, use lube and don’t switch orifices without washing first.
Oh god why did I read the comments on that choking article…They consist of women saying “actually most women don’t like dominance and choking” and men replying with “no you’re wrong and mike is right”.
Right. Because they like choking women, so of course they have to pretend that women like being choked.
Alaisvex: uh huh. And when a woman says something that doesn’t fit with their manly alpha logical views, well she must be mistaken about her own likes and dislikes, or at least that of other women.
Because 50 Shades of Grey. No really, that’s the “evidence” being used here. AGAIN.
God, That was a little out of the norm on here. But please, please be careful do whatever you want with a consenting partner but for the love all that good don’t listen to Mike Cern-whatever. Guy’s a class one asshole anyway you cut it.
I read Fifty Shades of Grey and was not turned in the slightest by any of the sex scenes. There! Am I exempt now?
Alais: if you’re a woman then no you are not exempt, TRU FACT 99% of women like to be sexually dominated. TRU FACTS FROM THE ALPHA MENZ ARE TRU FACTS FULL STOP BECAUSE THEYRE FROM ALPHA MENZ. If you disagree you’re just hamstering to avoid having to admit you like it when a man you dont know or trust deprives your brain of blood and oxygen.
Mukluk!
I did like the bit in the comment section where one woman cited a survey that said that only 57% of women said that they enjoyed rough sex, and the commenter responded with, “Where did you get that number? I said 99% to emphasize the point that women love being dominated.” Basically, why are you contesting my assfax with real data?
Alais: oh yeah. When she mentioned that choking your partner in public will make people think you’re abusing them, and at the same time be a cover for public abuse (“she loves it”) he responded with “did you know that women abuse men too? You said you are a feminist and for gender equality so you should be upset about that!”
Anytime someone says 99%, if they don’t give me a p-value and a test statistic to go with, I’m going to say they’re totally assfaxing.
Because 99% seems to be the general assfax stat.
Percentages are the worst stats, too.
Proportions, guys. Proportions.
I’ll eat ‘most any kind of nut, as long as they’re not rancid or oversalted. I must confess, though, that I hate the way hazelnut hulls get stuck in my teeth.
“He responded with ‘did you know that women abuse men too? You said you are a feminist and for gender equality so you should be upset about that!'”
Seems like an easy response. “Yes, I am a feminist. Yes, I am for gender equality .Yes, I would be upset by that. But that’s a red herring. Can we get back to your crazy rape logic now?”
So this is your first time trying to reason with an angry misogynist, then.
Yeah, angry misogynists don’t argue in good faith.