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Attention ladies who have sex with men! The sex you are having now is a crime against the hypothetical man or men you will have sex with in the future. At least according to some Red Pill douchebags.
Yesterday, you may recall, we looked at a bizarre and nasty post by pickup guru Roosh Valizadeh that argued, among other things, that all women who aren’t virgins are essentially “soft cuckolding” their future husbands. Because, evidently, any man who marries a woman not only owns her in the present; he retroactively owns her past self as well.
Today, in Reddit’s Red Pill subreddit, we find a fellow called redpilltom making a very similar – if slightly less extreme – argument about women and their sexual pasts.
In a post titled “Never date a woman who won’t do sexual things with you that she did with her other partners,” redpilltom argues that if a woman ever agreed to any sexual act in the past she owes it to you as well.
[I]f you ever, and I mean ever, find out that she did something with an ex that she refuses to do with you, drop her. Drop her fast and drop her hard. This goes from giving it up on X number of dates, to certain sexual acts that you want to do, to threesomes, to the frequency of sex.
Yep. As redpilltom sees it, if a woman says yes to anal sex with one man, she’s obliged to say yes to every future partner who wants anal. To refuse would be a deep insult to whoever she’s dating – and evidence that she sees her current partner as the simpering “beta” in the Red Pill catchphrase “Alpha fucks, Beta bucks.”
It is not only the #1 sign of being on the losing end of the AF/BB relationship, but it screams “Oh, well I felt I needed to impress and be good to them, but you seem easy enough that I don’t need to put in effort.” Do yourself a favor and move on to a woman who sees you as equal or better to the men who used to fuck her. Don’t settle for being second best.
It’s not as if what she wants matters at all in this equation. As redpilltom and his fellow Red Piller see it, sex isn’t something that women desire or enjoy — except with hunky alphas. It’s something that women have in their possession – and which non-alpha men have to get from them, by hook or by crook.
And if for whatever reason, good or bad, a woman “gave” a man in her past a certain sex act, she can’t change her mind and refuse to “give” it to you.
For the women who may be getting furious reading this, just imagine what it was like if you knew your boyfriend was rich.
Oh dear. This can’t be going anywhere good. Red Pillers regularly denounce women as “whores” and “golddiggers” who trade (their) sex for (men’s) money – at least when it comes to betas with bucks. But Red Pill dudes themselves see sex as essentially an economic transaction.
Imagine that he always brought his ex’s out on really nice vacations, nice house, bought them really nice gifts, treated them like princesses, etc. But he refused to do any of that with you, he wanted to be frugal with you even though he has more than enough money to treat you. Wouldn’t you feel a little bit weird about it? Wouldn’t you question why you were different, why he didn’t care to treat you the same? Why the sudden change?
I don’t know, maybe he’s older and wiser and realized that he was spending too much money and driving himself into debt? Maybe he got tired of an ex who only “rewarded” him with sex when he spend a lot of money on her? Or maybe his ex got tired of him trying to buy sex with money.
Hell, maybe he realized that the whole “sex for money” equation is an unhealthy basis for a romantic relationship?
In a followup comment, redpilltom makes clear he has no interest in hearing what the woman has to say about any of this.
![ForbiddenFruit420 13 points 14 hours ago What if she doesn't want to do it with you because she didn't enjoy it with her ex? permalink save report give gold [–]redpilltom [S] 37 points 14 hours ago That's something that's a bit more delicate and requires a bit more context. "I tried anal with my ex but stopped him because I didn't like it" is different than "I used to do it all the time with my ex, but didn't really like it". The context in the first was "I didn't like how it felt so I stopped" and the second was "I didn't really care for it, but he loved it so I did it for him". Overall it doesn't carry the same weight as the "I'm not that kind of girl anymore" BS that the post is more about, but it is a huge red flag and you should keep your eye out for more signs you're getting strung along. And, of course, women lie up and down about their sexual history. If a woman tells you she only tried something once briefly but hated it, it's pretty likely that she did it multiple times and loved it in the context of an alpha guy who gave her more tingles than you.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/lying.png?ssl=1)
Red Pill dudes, if you’re so deathly afraid of becoming a beta shelling out bucks for sex that alphas get for free, maybe you should stop seeing sex as an essentially economic transaction in which the desires of women – or at least their desire for anything but money – counts for nothing.
But in the meantime if you do decide to break up with a woman because she won’t have anal sex with you like she did in her college days – or whatever – you’re actually doing her a giant favor. Because no one deserves to be stuck in a relationship with someone like you.
H/T — r/thebluepill
At Lea – I definitely need to avoid drinking milk while reading these comments!
You owe me a new monitor.
No, wait. I can wipe it up. Thank goodness for keyboard trays, though. The keyboard was protected! Yay!
@ Michelle
It’s also why men have always tried so hard to create discord between younger women and older ones. If younger women can be convinced that older women are out to get them or not worth talking to then that prevents the older women from successfully passing on information that might help the younger women spot sketchy behavior from men or learn ways of handling men’s attempts to control them. Teaching young women to despise older ones ensures that each new generation will have to fight the exact same battles as the previous one, thus also ensuring that any progress will happen at a glacial pace.
@cassandrakitty – that article is not one bit surprising. Jerks online are jerks in real life? OK.
@Lea – yep. Any excuse.
@cassandrakitty – WOW! You just blew my mind.
I doubt they think about it consciously, get together in secret meetings, and plot ways to make the younger generation despise the older one, or make teenager think their mothers “just don’t understand them,” but yeah, in an individual relationship, I can totally see that! It’s a classic abuse technique.
Doing that on a larger scale, with each MRA doing it with all of his targets, would have an impressive cumulative effect.
Interestingly, I remember the day I realized I was an actual adult. It was at a church women’s auxiliary meeting, where we were learning how to can tomatoes, and I just felt all this sisterhood with the older women there, realizing that we had so much in common, and that they were not, in fact, too un-hip or out of it for me to relate to them. And they saw me as an adult, too, talking to me the same way they talked to the others. From then on, age was no barrier to friendship, and I learned so much!
Frankly, I love listening to older people, because even if they aren’t good story-tellers, they all have good stories to tell. Who need to watch soap operas, when you can visit some people with real life experiences to share? And it’s even better if you can learn from those experiences, and not make the same mistakes.
It’s the relationships that I had with my mother’s friends, and sitting listening to their stories, that made me a feminist. When you do that you start seeing the patterns and the way that misogyny limits women’s lives in similar ways in all kinds of different cultures, and how similar women’s life patterns are across different generations. Preventing that from happening is an excellent way of making sure that the same pattern continues.
@cassandrakitty: That is really very disappointing to hear from del Toro.
It really was. Like I said, the other two? It was kind of obvious from watching their movies. But from Del Toro I expected better.
@Lea
All human beings have that impulse. A person picks up a small bird, the first thing they feel is how fragile and defenseless it is, and the reason they do is because of instant realization that they can easily hurt it. In some people that idea causes instant recoil, so they become more protective, for other people it’s a sick thrill they embrace. I think the trick to not being horrible is not necessarily to push the idea away, but to see it properly and reject it because it’s awful. A person who embraces the idea is clearly sadistic, but a person who just pushes it away unexamined can easily overlook it in a different context simply by having dismissed it in the past as something that they can’t possibly do (that’s how “I am not a rapist, therefore she was asking for it” happens). Some of these men are openly vile. Others can pretend to themselves that they are not horrible simply because they have shoved that possibility out of their conscious mind. All people have a cruel streak. Kind people are just aware of it and keep it on a short leash.
Well, following Pillock logic, I think she’s obligated to DEMAND that he submit to a good pegging, because her ex did and he loved it. Fair’s fair, even-steven, etc., etc.!
Meh…I associate those clamshell-type salad tongs with tacky all-you-can-eat salad bars, so they’re expendable. My old-fashioned two-piece salad cutlery, on the other hand, is SACRED!
Well, when she’s being wheeled out with a sheet over her head, I guess “next”ing her is kind of mandatory. But yeah, that’s their logic, isn’t it? Who cares if it harms her — the boner wants what it wants (to paraphrase Woody Allen and get at what he REALLY meant when he said that). And what it wants, it must GET, whether she wants it or not. And no matter that the “want” is conditioned by inane and destructive societal expectations, most of which these guys would never have if not for porn and stupid Reddit forums.
Hey, me too! Mine is set to ring when jewelry makes its appearance. So far, I’ve gotten a diamond tennis bracelet, an emerald choker, a ruby cocktail ring, and a Rolex out of it.
I’m guessing you’re right. But if one of them ever comes up to me with this broken record spiel, I’mma do to him what Fonzie did to the jukebox at Arnold’s.
That’s probably true and it’s unfortunate because it hurts the quality of horror movies. I want to be afraid for the characters, not happy to see them killed off. If I’m watching a horror movie and find myself eagerly waiting for the kills to start, that movie has failed IMO. It means the characters are poorly developed and no suspense has been built.
My rec for recent horror is the Australian film The Babadook. It’s so spooky and creepy and there’s some actual substance to it.
I also like Mike Flanagan’s work so far. Oculus was good but his earlier indie horror film Absentia is one of my favorites. It’s atmospheric and suspenseful. It’s does Lovecraftian horror in a way that’s actually scary because it doesn’t show you much. The two leads are both women and neither of them look like models or like porn stars. They look like regular people and both characters are very well developed. I’ll probably never go in a tunnel on foot without being terrified after seeing this movie. I can’t recommend it enough.
They have a dream of also being her ex. That’s what they’re envious of, right? Being dumped?
I like horror too, and it really troubles me how many horror movies there are where at some point you find yourself sitting there thinking “the man who made this movie really, truly hates women”. I’m not talking about standard issue sexism that shows up in most men, I’m talking about MRA level misogyny, outright hatred. You can see it in the Saw movies, and in Hostel, and in a lot of Miike’s work, and if you took that aspect out of Dario Argento’s work his movies would all be about 5 minutes long. And the thing is, horror movies don’t need that to be scary, that sexualized sadism that’s specifically aimed at women, and I don’t think the male audience that it’s intended for even find those parts of those movies scary, I think they find them erotic. Which makes me want to go rinse my brain out with bleach.
That’s a good point about the ones dying always being young, beautiful and rich i.e 2% of the population. If most people can’t relate to the character then they won’t be so upset at their deaths and the intended point is the torture itself, not making the audience feel bad for the victims. That’s what sicko directors want. Schadenfreude.
That dynamic also keeps women from advancing at work. Young male employees have older male mentors. Young female employees have older female rivals.
Holy insecurities, batman! These guys are just deathly worried that everyone else is better than them and having more fun then them, aren’t they? It sure explains the whole “Women that would have sex with me are worthless” self loathing thing they’ve got going on, eh?
Personally I steer well clear of horror films that involve torturous human suffering. I can’t handle it. I feel too bad for the characters. If I want my horror fix then I’ll watch a different kind of film or read a creepypasta.
I found the reactions to the movie I Saw The Devil interesting in that a lot of people seemed to find the violence inflicted on the villain far more disturbing than the violence that he inflicted upon multiple women and girls. Part of that was probably just because it’s something that you don’t usually see, the monster being tortured the same way he tortured other people, and part of it was the shock of seeing the protagonist doing those things, but I honestly think that part of it was that we’ve been trained not to empathize with female victims in horror movies, so their suffering is almost part of the scenery, but a male main character being hurt? That’s a shock, because to some extent the audience is expected to empathize with any main male character even if he is a monster.
Late to the conversation, so I’m going to throw all my thoughts out at once:
1) If I’m with an experienced partner, I love to hear their stories, but that’s the extent of my concern about their sexual history (once we have health issues taken care of, of course).
2) I know I shouldn’t be so amazed by the range of ages on this blog, but I am. Every time. For the young ‘uns who’ve never been in a romantic or sexual relationship, there are definitely worse places you could come for advice. And if you’re worried that the reading material is giving you a skewed view of men…well, some of us are guys, too. Judge us by what you see.
3) That is disappointing as hell about Del Toro. I’m a big horror fan myself, but I’ve never enjoyed the “take that, bitch” school of filmmaking.
4) I suspect I can guess what their answer would be to this:
That answer would be that the woman’s sexual history is a salad bar for him to take what he likes and leave the rest. He isn’t obligated to do anything sexually; men bring something different to the relationship (betas bring their bucks, and alphas like themselves bring umm mumble muffle). However, since women bring nothing but sex, they have to give whatever the man wants, especially if they’ve given it to someone else before.
(Because of course women don’t actually want sex for its own sake, they trade it to men for something else they actually want. They trade it to alphas for status and betas for bucks, so the man has to make sure he gets full value.)
And now I need to go wash my hands in bleach.
I really liked I Saw The Devil. The main character gets his revenge and I was pleased about it, but getting that vengeance isn’t a win and it doesn’t bring him any satisfaction. His need to draw out the process and make the killer suffer winds up causing more death and destruction. The man spurred to vengeance after his wife or girlfriend is raped or killed is an overdone and original trope but I didn’t feel that while watching I Saw The Devil. Plus, Lee Byung-Hun is really hot.
http://fims.kofic.or.kr/upload/up_img/cleansing/26/peo_10055626_1.jpg
I haven’t seen anyone expressing any empathy for the killer, but sadly it’s not a surprise that people would be more upset at a man being stalked, brutalized and killed instead of a woman. Maybe that’s why people find Audition so shocking even though there isn’t any torture and gore until the ending.
I meant unoriginal trope.
Look at the comments about Lady Vengeance on imdb – there are people who were more upset about the main character being a “bad mother” than anything else in the movie. This is a movie that features child kidnapping and murder, rape, and an extended torture sequence ending in, yep, more murder! But a woman’s lack of idea maternal virtues was the thing that people felt needed to be focused on.
I mostly loved I Saw The Devil too, but felt like some of the scenes where the villain was molesting young girls could have done with being a bit less graphic. That part really wasn’t necessary in order to get across what a monster he was, it was just gratuitous wank material for the men in the audience who get off on sexual sadism, imo.
If a man wants something a woman doesn’t, she’s lying.
If a woman wants something a man doesn’t, she’s a freak.
What if the reason I don’t want to try it again is because it triggered the fuck out of me the first and only time and I ended up fracturing the ex’s ribs?
(Sidenote: DO NOT pin someone with serious claustrophobia/anxiety down. EVER. Not even during sexytimes. Not even if you’re just kidding. It does not end well for you.)
A dildo in a little suit!!!!!
Re: Horror movies – I almost never watch them. However, I have watched enough (like once a year, for Halloween) to get a whole slew of the jokes in “The Cabin In the Woods,” which was great for me. I mean, it set up everything so much, I knew just when to expect the “jump” scene, so I didn’t jump, so I didn’t hurt myself watching it.
I threw my back out watching Harry Potter, because it caught me by surprise.
Not that “The Cabin In the Woods” was boring or predictable. I mean, they used music to establish a rhythm, so you knew just what beat to expect the blow, and other such tricks. They used the tropes and pointed out that they WERE tropes. It was so meta, and I loved it.
I loved, too, that they made the “slut” character a woman in a committed relationship, and the “virgin,” character? “Well, we take what we can get.” LOL!
They even pointed out that the obligatory breast scene was, in fact, obligatory, and showed only one, because they had met their quota.
And they pointed out that the victims MUST be young. It was a requirement.
If you like horror flicks, and you like Joss Whedon, I highly recommend this film.
I also like the Scream movies, and the way they play with the tropes.