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Attention ladies who have sex with men! The sex you are having now is a crime against the hypothetical man or men you will have sex with in the future. At least according to some Red Pill douchebags.
Yesterday, you may recall, we looked at a bizarre and nasty post by pickup guru Roosh Valizadeh that argued, among other things, that all women who aren’t virgins are essentially “soft cuckolding” their future husbands. Because, evidently, any man who marries a woman not only owns her in the present; he retroactively owns her past self as well.
Today, in Reddit’s Red Pill subreddit, we find a fellow called redpilltom making a very similar – if slightly less extreme – argument about women and their sexual pasts.
In a post titled “Never date a woman who won’t do sexual things with you that she did with her other partners,” redpilltom argues that if a woman ever agreed to any sexual act in the past she owes it to you as well.
[I]f you ever, and I mean ever, find out that she did something with an ex that she refuses to do with you, drop her. Drop her fast and drop her hard. This goes from giving it up on X number of dates, to certain sexual acts that you want to do, to threesomes, to the frequency of sex.
Yep. As redpilltom sees it, if a woman says yes to anal sex with one man, she’s obliged to say yes to every future partner who wants anal. To refuse would be a deep insult to whoever she’s dating – and evidence that she sees her current partner as the simpering “beta” in the Red Pill catchphrase “Alpha fucks, Beta bucks.”
It is not only the #1 sign of being on the losing end of the AF/BB relationship, but it screams “Oh, well I felt I needed to impress and be good to them, but you seem easy enough that I don’t need to put in effort.” Do yourself a favor and move on to a woman who sees you as equal or better to the men who used to fuck her. Don’t settle for being second best.
It’s not as if what she wants matters at all in this equation. As redpilltom and his fellow Red Piller see it, sex isn’t something that women desire or enjoy — except with hunky alphas. It’s something that women have in their possession – and which non-alpha men have to get from them, by hook or by crook.
And if for whatever reason, good or bad, a woman “gave” a man in her past a certain sex act, she can’t change her mind and refuse to “give” it to you.
For the women who may be getting furious reading this, just imagine what it was like if you knew your boyfriend was rich.
Oh dear. This can’t be going anywhere good. Red Pillers regularly denounce women as “whores” and “golddiggers” who trade (their) sex for (men’s) money – at least when it comes to betas with bucks. But Red Pill dudes themselves see sex as essentially an economic transaction.
Imagine that he always brought his ex’s out on really nice vacations, nice house, bought them really nice gifts, treated them like princesses, etc. But he refused to do any of that with you, he wanted to be frugal with you even though he has more than enough money to treat you. Wouldn’t you feel a little bit weird about it? Wouldn’t you question why you were different, why he didn’t care to treat you the same? Why the sudden change?
I don’t know, maybe he’s older and wiser and realized that he was spending too much money and driving himself into debt? Maybe he got tired of an ex who only “rewarded” him with sex when he spend a lot of money on her? Or maybe his ex got tired of him trying to buy sex with money.
Hell, maybe he realized that the whole “sex for money” equation is an unhealthy basis for a romantic relationship?
In a followup comment, redpilltom makes clear he has no interest in hearing what the woman has to say about any of this.
![ForbiddenFruit420 13 points 14 hours ago What if she doesn't want to do it with you because she didn't enjoy it with her ex? permalink save report give gold [–]redpilltom [S] 37 points 14 hours ago That's something that's a bit more delicate and requires a bit more context. "I tried anal with my ex but stopped him because I didn't like it" is different than "I used to do it all the time with my ex, but didn't really like it". The context in the first was "I didn't like how it felt so I stopped" and the second was "I didn't really care for it, but he loved it so I did it for him". Overall it doesn't carry the same weight as the "I'm not that kind of girl anymore" BS that the post is more about, but it is a huge red flag and you should keep your eye out for more signs you're getting strung along. And, of course, women lie up and down about their sexual history. If a woman tells you she only tried something once briefly but hated it, it's pretty likely that she did it multiple times and loved it in the context of an alpha guy who gave her more tingles than you.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/lying.png?ssl=1)
Red Pill dudes, if you’re so deathly afraid of becoming a beta shelling out bucks for sex that alphas get for free, maybe you should stop seeing sex as an essentially economic transaction in which the desires of women – or at least their desire for anything but money – counts for nothing.
But in the meantime if you do decide to break up with a woman because she won’t have anal sex with you like she did in her college days – or whatever – you’re actually doing her a giant favor. Because no one deserves to be stuck in a relationship with someone like you.
H/T — r/thebluepill
So TMI time:
My partner is not willing to do certain things sexually, one is anal. Luckily for him, I am more interested in him as a human being than what he can do for me with his genitals.
See, I had been in relationships with 3 other guys prior to meeting him and they had all wanted to “try” anal at some point. I tried it with them all, more than once. It was never terribly painful, but it didn’t feel good and it did kinda gross me out.
So it was strange to me that once we became sexual, he never once brought it up. Eventually out of curiosity I asked him about it. He didn’t want to say much about it but basically from what he did say, I think he had a very unpleasant (possibly traumatic) experience with an ex. He said it hurt, even with lots of lube, and it grossed him out.
Now since I didn’t really like anal sex this revelation may not have been as big of a problem as someone who did enjoy it. But he also has a thing with fingering, which I do very much enjoy. I can understand his problem with it, he has very thick fingers and works with his hands (mechanic), so often they are sore as well. He feels clumsy and anxious about hurting me. I don’t ask him to do it because I would rather do without that then “make” him do something he feels uncomfortable with.
But I guess because I’m the woman, being an unselfish and empathetic partner is expected. I keep forgetting that there are separate standards for men and women according to these fools. I just can’t imagine ever treating the person I love any other way. It’s sickening to me that there are women out there who have had the misfortune of running into such gross assholes.
sunnysombrera
Funny thing – I actually kind of technically do have a spreadsheet of this nature.
I have a period tracker app that I use to track my (extremely long and irregular) cycle and it has been a godsend, because before that I basically spent at least a week every couple of months being like OMG DEFINITELY PREGNANT (despite the fact that I am crazy careful about protection).
This app also let’s you flag when you have been “intimate” and because I’m a tad obsessive about my sexual health, I usually add a quick note about the type of birth control used, the acts performed, etc. (It also gives you the option to note all your period symptoms with fun little icons for acne, bloating, cramps, back pain, headaches, fatigue, cravings, etc! – I use this function LIBERALLY.)
This had gone a bit off-topic, but I would highly recommend this app to anyone who has periods. Pre-Period Tracker, I would go to the doctor and she’d be like “When was your last period?” and I’d be like “Ummmm…” and she’d be like “OK, well how long is your cycle?” and I’d be like “…uhhh…” and she’d be like “When did you last have sex?” and I’d be like “UMMMMM…”
But now I can just be like “Hang on, doctor! Let me just check my app and I can give you exact dates!”
tinyorc : Well whaddaya know. Glad you’re able to keep track of things!
I don’t actually have a sexual history so I have no need for a log. Although according to the RPers I am probably a lying whore who has done all sorts of sex with all sorts of men and I’m just trying to cover up my sluttiness. Totally into anal, apparently, because as a woman nothing I say is valid or truthful.
marci – adding to the TMI and man not into anal: I was happy to try, he’s not interested, and he’s done it before and enjoyed it. Do I care? Nope, it was merely curiosity. I don’t think he associates it with sex with women, and I know he doesn’t associate it with me.
Actually the whole thing of getting hung up on a particular sex act or acts is pretty skeevy for me, at least when it reduces the other person to being the means, not the end. I really don’t give a damn what my beloved and I do: what matters is that it’s us doing it, and it’s not having sex, it’s making love, regardless of mood, method, anything. That’s something these moron wankboys will never, never understand.
Re periods – I just write ’em on my calendar. Which, with perimenopause being an aaarghfuckinggoddamnnuisance, means a lot of scribbling these days.
I’ve never kept track of my periods because I can usually feel when they’re about to happen. On the stuff that one did before issue, why would you even want to do something with your partner that they’re not into? I feel like that’s the fundamental “wow, sex with these guys would be miserable because they just don’t get it at all” issue here.
I think their desire to do X act (which they’ve doubtless seen in porn) is increased by the woman’s reluctance. These men are all about rape, after all. But yeah, I can’t imagine wanting to press an act on anyone I cared about, particularly when we’re talking something as intimate as sex, and most particularly when it’s an act with the potential to hurt. That’s another thing, of course: the physical proximity is the only sort of intimacy in it for these scumbags, and caring about anything except their genitals is an alien concept.
I get the Depo shot because my periods were so out of control they made my life totally miserable. Now I don’t get one at all and it is a welcome relief. Though I have been told that not all women who use the shot have those results with it. Some still get a period, or even have more problems. I guess I got lucky and found a BC that actually makes my life 1000 times nicer.
Depo is so weird, some people it seems to work fine for and for others it’s hellish.
Really the only way to deal with a man like this is to say that ALL her previous partners were OBSESSED with cunnilingus!
I think it’s useful to discuss with your partner what they have and haven’t done sexually in the past – IF he/she is comfortable with it – to find out what they did or did not enjoy/may want to try eventually and so on.
My ex used guilt trip me into sex acts I didn’t want and didn’t feel comfortable with. I was very insecure and inexperienced at that time; if a guy tried that with me now it totally wouldn’t work but when I was a teenager it did.
when I told my current partner at the begin of our relationship about this, he was appalled by my ex’s behaviour and expressed that he thought it absurd to just take certain sex acts for granted and to pressure someone into it.
ironically, that made it possible for me to build a lot of trust and sexual confidence I never had with my ex, and after a while I actually wanted to experiment more. so we ended up having a lot of fun trying out a lot more sexually than I did before. this is only possible because I know that if I don’t want to do something/want to stop doing something, my no will be respected.
These guys keep saying that women do not enjoy sex with them and I believe them. They’re horrible, hateful bigots and shhhhhhitty lovers. They know women enjoy sex with other men. They just can’t figure out why. I doubt they ever get to dump anyone. I have a hunch that these sacks of shit are the ones getting dropped as quickly as possible.
That is why they try to go after inexperienced teens.
This reminds me of that dude on RoK who wrote a response article about Troy Singleton’s attempts to criminalize lying to get sex into “sexual assault by fraud” which is a ridiculous proposition easily refutable by the fact that sex is not a contract or a financial transaction, but of course the douchebag collective cannot use that argument, because they’ve been arguing the opposite since forever, so this RoK contributor is reduced to the sad blatant honesty of quite literally saying “if we cannot lie to women, then how will we ever get laid?”
It’s in that quote at the top; there’s a difference between ‘tried but stopped because I didn’t like it,’ and ‘did it all the time but never liked it.’ What’s the difference? The difference is that if she can tolerate doing it all the time but doesn’t like it, obviously she should tolerate it some more.
The idea that maybe we should focus on the things SHE enjoys? Hmm, no, things she enjoys? That’s a myth! A myth!!!!!!
They should just write DON’T FUCK ME, I’M USELESS IN BED on their foreheads with a sharpie, it would yield the same results as their usual approach but be more efficient for everyone involved.
From the Reddit thread:
Well. Um. Okay. So. I disagree.
My partners are not sex toys. I have sex toys, and I greatly prefer my partners to my toys. Toys, you see, don’t have personalities. Toys cannot look on me with desire, nor react to anything I do, nor take initiative. You can’t collaborate with a toy, or laugh with a toy, or cuddle sleepily with a toy when neither of you want to admit that it’s morning.
Even for having sex, a partner is better than a sex toy, and a romantic partnership is about so much more than sex.
“Wouldn’t you feel a little bit weird about it? Wouldn’t you question why you were different, why he didn’t care to treat you the same? Why the sudden change?”
Yeah, that’s what talking is for. You know, you ask questions, and the person you’re in a relationship with answers, then you’re clear on why things are happening the way they are… Guess he’s not familiar with this process, huh?
@mikki
Or virgin-shamed, if we haven’t had sex, at all. Only HB10s are allowed to be virgins, you see. Anyone less than that gets mocked for being “not good enough” to get a partner.
A fat virgin? Well, of COURSE you’re a virgin. Who would want you? You didn’t have any choice in the matter. So, you’re still a slut, because you always wanted to be, if only some guy would have given you the chance, and how DARE you say no to anyone, you ungrateful whore?! Hey, YOU! I’m DOING YOU A FAVOR! Just spread your legs already, you filthy bitch!
And the lower your “number” on the SMV chart, the less effort they need to put into dating you. For example, some guys think that if you’re fat, the only effort they need to put into dating you is to find out your name before they demand sex. No actual dating required. And if you dare refuse, well, you don’t have the right to refuse, and they’ll have to “teach you your place.”
My life in high school makes so much more sense, now. I was dealing with MRAs. And here I thought they were just rapey jerks.
Yeah. Women can’t even break even with these guys, let alone win.
duckbunny,
I just imagined a montage of me out to eat with a vibrator, taking a dildo to the movies or watching the kids open Christmas presents with a butt plug. Tee-hee. Oh the places my brain goes!
The dildo was wearing a little suit.
*laugh/snort* My sides hurt.
Related to this and every other discussion about the manosphere, look what I found on the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2014/feb/25/internet-trolls-are-also-real-life-trolls
Michelle C Young ,
Don’t forget that the same men then turn around and say that a fat woman with many partners is slutting it up because she has to to get any attention and that if she’s a freak in the sheets, it’s because she has to try extra hard to please a man because she’s such and ugo.
They just hate women and any excuse to hate women will do for them.
@Ellessar
Virgin or not, when I get married, I am TOTALLY stealing this line!
Marci – Your partner sounds wonderful!
Tinyorc – That app sounds wonderful!
Kitteh – Your marriage is wonderful, as always, and I’m a bit envious. But don’t worry. As soon as I have a bit of chocolate, I’ll be fine. 😉
On the topic of birth control, I knew a girl at college who had to take BC pills, due to her extremely irregular and heavy periods. This was a church-run school, and sex outside of marriage was grounds for immediate expulsion, so she had to tell her RA about the pills, and all, in case she was “caught” taking them. She was the only woman in the dorm with these pills.
Well, one day, she went to take her daily dose, and noticed that it was missing. Someone had stolen ONE pill from her!
When she told me about it, she sighed that it would mess her up for a few days to a week. But then she snorted and said that “someone is in for a rude awakening.”
Cassandra,
This quote stood out to me because it is something I’m familiar with. When we did critter fostering it was strange to me that people would get a beautiful, friendly dog and just ruin it mentally and physically. If they didn’t want it, they could dump it Plenty of people do.
Pit bulls in particular seem like a popular target for abuse and neglect. I think it had something to do with accessibility due to overbreeding, but also about taking something sleek, mentally tough, naturally strong and loving and destroying it. Some people will just let horses starve to death even when they have plenty of money for feed. I think it is for the same reason. Some people are petty, cruel and ugly to the bone.
As a horror fan, it’s pretty obvious to me that this is the same reason torture porn and slasher flicks almost always feature young, vital people. Beautiful young women, especially get used to titillate in the goriest ways possible. It’s why the young, beautiful, wealthy and the athletic are often portrayed as deserving what they get. What they have is unattainable. They are unattainable. The more the character has to lose, the more some people get a sick thrill from watching it taken away. It’s a kind of twisted envy finding release.
I’m not remotely shocked to find out trolls think just that way about real human beings. They’re why humans are not my favorite species.
One of the most disturbing things I’ve ever run across by accident was an interview with Eli Roth, Miike Takashi, and Guillermo Del Toro in which the three of them were laughing about how they made movies in which beautiful women are terrified and tortured as a way of getting revenge upon the pretty girls who wouldn’t date them in high school.
(From Miike and Roth this was not surprising in any way, but seeing Del Toro joining in? Yeah, that was an unpleasant surprise.)
I know I’ve said this before about MRAs and PUAs, but you need all the traits listed in the Guardian article plus frustrated sexual entitlement to make an MRA or a PUA. It’s why there aren’t many gay MRAs – there are plenty of gay men who have misogynistic attitudes towards women, but it takes that plus rage that the women you’re attracted to are allowed to say no to you to make an MRA, or a PUA.
@Tyra Lith
I think it is *this* more than anything about physical attractiveness that makes them pursue younger targets. It’s not really about women “hitting the wall” at 25 or what-have-you. It’s about women getting *wise* to their games and not responding according to their rules. They just use the excuse of “I didn’t want her, anyway,” sour grapes, to explain the fact that they don’t even bother with women who are experienced and self-assured enough to reject them.
Amazing how it works that way, isn’t it? Mature women really can be the best in bed, because they know better what they want, and feel secure going after it, as well as experimenting with new things, and if they are insecure in their relationship, they know enough to dump the guy and get another one who makes them feel secure.
Some years ago, when I was lonely and sad, I looked around at the various women I knew, and started really observing them. There were a LOT of unhappy women in relationships. There were also happy married women, and happy single women, and happy “it’s complicated” women. The one thing all these happy women had in common was that they did NOT throw themselves away on unfulfilling relationships, just so that they could have a man. I learned that it is better to be single and satisfied with what I have than to force myself to submit to some jerk, just to avoid being single. Pity dates and desperation hook-ups lead to no good.
Someday, I really, truly do hope to get married. But having been single for this long, I won’t give it up for just any old guy. I will only get married to a man who truly loves me, and is the sort of man that I can love in return. If it’s not real and not mutual, it’s not happening.
Accepting that philosophy has led to a lot more happiness, and a lot less envy and jealousy and fewer lonely nights.