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From time to time I like to check in on the Facebook page for A Voice for Men, to see how that eminent men’s human rights organization’s program to advance the human man rights of human men through badly designed and even more poorly conceived graphic “memes” is going.
Well, I can report that this program is going, and going, and going, a bit like a famous battery-powered bunny.
Looking through them today, I couldn’t help but notice the weird sexual undertones — and overtones — of many of the memes, and realized that, while none of the memes tell us much about the world, they do, in an altogehter accidental way, offer some pretty interesting insights into the ids of those making and “liking” them on Facebook.
You don’t have to be a trained psychoanalyst to see the not-very-well-hidden straight male sexual insecurities that lie behind a large number of AVFM’s memes — both the ones they create themselves and the others that seem to have arrived on the AVFM page after being forwarded via email from someone’s cranky misogynistic uncle. Let’s take a look at some of them.
1) AVFMers have apparently convinced themselves that the history of mankind is the story of nice guys being nice to snooty women who won’t date them.
2) The straight men who make up the bulk of AVFM’s audience are pretty much terrified of women.
3) A lot of these guys seem to really enjoy fantasizing about women being forced into crappy jobs and/or sex work.
4) One of AVFM’s meme makers, the fellow who goes by the name of “John Galt,” has trouble distinguishing between the real world and certain (perhaps unacknowledged) sexual fetishes he appears to be a little obsessed with.
5) Straight cis male AVFMers hate fat women who don’t please their boners, and are angry at feminists for convincing at least some fat women not to hate themselves.
6) These AVFMers evidently prefer women who are very young, very thin, and photoshopped into anatomically implausible proportions and positions. But they simultaneously hate these women for giving them boners.
8) AVFMers really, really hate male feminists — and pretty much every man who doesn’t hate and fear women like they dO — and not-very-subtly project their own sexual insecurities onto them.
9) They also really, really, really hate me.
But I think that’s probably because they’re jealous that I have that second pair of arms.
@sunnysombrera: yeah, but it seems to me to go further than that. Not only is violence (of men against women) normal and okay, it is desirable for them. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but they repeat this so often, this one formula: “If he wanted to, he could have hurt her much, much worse”, that I get the impression that this is a fantasy of them.
I mean, most men wouldn’t actually be physically able to kill somebody (except children) just so with their fists; it’s not that easy (I think, at least). I think they want to be able to do that, because it would give them unlimited power over another person, and then they imagine other people being grateful because they are gracious enough to not use that power to the max. That’s a really creepy power fantasy.
Barnardo: good point. I think you may be right. But they’re wrong on him being able to kill her with one hard punch, maybe he’d knock her out but wouldn’t kill her. That is definitely just a power fantasy.
God, the subtle smirk on their faces and the glee in their voices when they talk about how he could have done worse. And I’ve just realised that Elam’s little bit on her being a “raging bull” and him “de escalating” things per se, if right out of an abusers mindset. He sees a slight shove as a terrible transgression and a punch to the face as “consequences”. That’s it. Black and white. She didn’t play submissive and the dude put her back in her place and all is right in Paul’s world. O_O
These guys are pretty much Why Does He Do That: The Website.
Does anyone else have trouble feeling sorry for cis guys now that they’re starting to experience these same rigid and unrealistic beauty standards? Maybe it’s a mean thing to say, but it’s just how I feel.
It’s just that where were they 5,10, 20 years ago? I almost never used to hear men express concern about this issue. Now that’s it happening to them too, suddenly it matters? It used to be that a lot of men found women vain or weak for being effected by beauty standards.
It’s still worse for women and popular culture has been doing it to us for longer. It’s not like I want men to be insecure and have body image issues. I don’t. I just wish it didn’t take men experiencing this too to validate women’s experiences. It’s like those guys that suddenly discover feminism when they have a daughter.
Regarding one punch: One punch can absolutely kill, quite easily, if the victim hits their head on the floor or on a counter.
@wwth
To be fair, there has for a long time been a lot of fat- and thinshaming going on for teenage boys. I mean, that’s one of the original Nerd stereotypes, isn’t it? They are either too fat or to thin (i.e., not muscular enough) to be “real men”. I always found it kind of sad that many Nerds (read: gamerboogers) didn’t react to this by questioning the standards of masculinity, but by embracing them in an even more toxic way.
WWTH:
Yes, because of this:
I mean, it’s great when men “get it” and sometimes it does take having something that you weren’t actually affected by suddenly affect you, but damn, it would be really, really great if women were just taken seriously in the first place. All anyone has to do is listen to women and no automatically dismiss them because they are women.
TW: discussion of domestic violence:
MRAs are the only people who can watch a video of a man beating a woman and claim it was right and justified. I found it sickening how Elam & co were sort of chuckling about her being dazed after the man punched her in the face. It’s like they were gloating.
It could be mean, but I think the feeling is justified 🙂 I haven’t actually noticed unrealistic beauty standards being put on to men now, but it could be because I know I helplessly resemble a balding boiled potato that someone has amusingly stuck glasses on to, and so just tend to ignore it.
I think that men live in a different enough world that they really don’t understand the pressures put on women until experiencing it for themselves, and I include myself in that… when my wife recently mentioned having to be constantly vigilant and nervous at night while waiting for a bus or walking home, I was shocked because I had no idea someone with her confidence would have those worries, and we’ve known each other for ten years. There are things that men just don’t have to think about and that are just completely alien to them.
MGTOW: A man who understands that sexual attraction and intimacy are separate from financial obligation… The kind of man who has the courage and strength to live by it…
Makes me laugh so much, considering how many MGTOWers are paying (or at least discussing it) for sex, and as is well known many men who go regularly to prostitutes DO try to achieve intimacy through that financially driven relationship!
I don’t feel sorry for them either, especially if they respond by complaining how unfair it is to them and at the very same time ratcheting up the pressure on the women around them to meet the (much higher) female standard.
Sure. I’m not saying men and boys have never been judged or mocked based on their looks before. But they can still watch TV and movies and see men of all shapes and sizes in lead protagonist roles. They still get the girl and they aren’t seen as jokes. There are plenty of buff chiseled guys onscreen but it’s far from the only representation of men.
I get excited whenever I see Christina Hendricks in a role because her body type is similar to mine. And she’s still conventionally attractive. She just isn’t a size zero like every other working actress.
Then there’s the age thing. Besides mega stars like Meryl Streep, there aren’t a whole lot of good roles for women over 40. They’re mostly just allowed to play mothers and grandmothers in supporting roles. For men who aren’t young, there’s still plenty of representation. Also, if you look at movie couples the female half is often much younger and often far more attractive.
Men may get judge on their looks, but they’re not judged solely on their looks. A non-conventionally attractive man can still be considered attractive in popular culture if he’s funny, talented, wealthy etc. A non conventionally attractive woman may as well not exist.
It doesn’t help that many (although by no means all) men have bought into this. Including men who aren’t even that conventionally attractive. Remember that Dustin Hoffman video that went viral? http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/07/why-i-declined-to-share-that-viral-dustin-hoffman-video-from-yesterday/ When dressing as a woman and not looking like an attractive one made him realize that women who weren’t beautiful had always been invisible to him?
So yeah, like I said, worlds smallest violin now that the entertainment, fashion, and beauty industries have discovered they can profit on making men feel shitty too.
Honestly I see what’s happening now as more of a partial balancing of the scales rather than an unfair imposition upon men. If we’re going to have cultural beauty standards that people are pressured to meet, well, that pressure should fall equally on both sexes. If we were to do away with that pressure then that would be cool, but as long as it exists then having it only apply to one sex is ridiculous.
And not one of them mentioned the poor kids who had to see their mother go through that. But of course they might as well learn that father knows best as soon as possible, right? /s
Mang, that Brother John is one fucked-up dude…and so is Paul Elam (and just think, Elam WAS a drug counselor, once upon a time). But you know who’s the worst in that whole video? Yeah, that woman who agreed with him. “Consequences!” she prattles. As though a woman asking a violent guy to leave and not take any of her shit with him actually DESERVED to be pummeled, and her kids traumatized by the sight of Mommy getting hit, to boot. What a fucking Special Snowflake! What a fucking ENABLER she is. If ever she gets beaten up under similar circumstances, I will have to fight the impulse to track her down on the Internet and say just one word back to her:
“CONSEQUENCES!”
(Problem is, she probably won’t realize that that blithe conclusion that she applies to other women can in turn be applied to her, and that’s what makes it oh-SO-wrong.)
Lea:
No kidding. I remember when someone pointed me to videos of Anastasia Sokolova, who was a pole dancer on Ukraine’s Got Talent a couple of years ago. I’ve never done pole dancing before, but I have done both gymnastics and martial arts, so I have at least a vague idea of some of what’s required. Watching her basically rotate her body upside-down using only her upper body strength and grip on the pole was really bloody impressive.
@wwth
All absolutely true. The peer pressure during your teens, something that goes away and that you can get over after leaving school, is also something different than continuing constant pressure during every waking hour of your adult life. And popular culture is only part of this. I think we could deal with popular culture, as bad as it is, if there wasn’t the constant pressure in everyday life. My partner has to go through a long routine every morning to look “professional”, because professional for me is a shower, clean sweater, jacket and leather shoes, for her it’s make-up, hair, for meetings suit or dress, heeled shoes and so on.
The other thing is: I get that from women’s perspective, it doesn’t really make a difference if men get some small amount of similar pressure, but am I right in the impression that is has gotten worse, on the whole, in the last ten years or so? Maybe it’s my age (ten years ago, I was still a student, therefore maybe not so much confronted with this), but I was always a feminist, and from the discussions I’m having, I get the impression that at least in Germany, the body shaming is more detailed, the pressure on individuals to “care for themselves”, be “fit” (i.e. look the part) and eat “right” stronger (and the goalposts constantly shifting), the pressure to always, even in private moments with your kids or your partner, look just perfect stronger and getting more intimate…
People are mistaken when they say that one cannot die from a punch. There are places where if you are struck with a closed fist the likelyhood of death is extremely high.
I wish they could have met Noriko, my first Japanese teacher, a tall, strapping young woman who could invest stereotypically submissive crap like goshujinsama with enough sarcasm to defeat the hardiest boner. Let’s just say that not all Japanese women fit the stereotype.
Bernardo – I would say that the ‘pornification’ of our society has resulted in the microscopically detailed criticism of our physical selves – online at least. Certainly from my 50yo feminist perspective body hair on women is even more of a taboo than it used to be, where young men will refer to it as disgusting and disrespectful to even have pubic hair!
Also, there was a world before photo shop! Now ALL images for commercial consumption are changed, whereas 20 30 years ago there was much less image manipulation.
I wish I could meet her, too! And Mineko Iwasaki, who was Japan’s top geisha for a time, and a kick-ass person in private — she used her decorative wooden platform sandals to bean a guy who wouldn’t take no for an answer, once. And this in full maiko regalia, too!
I stand corrected on the “can’t die from one punch” idea. My bad.
And this fact makes what Elam says even worse.
I get the impression that these guys are against the single incapacitating punch because it’s not frightening and punitive enough. They aren’t content to merely hit a woman, they also think it’s their right to TORTURE a woman. With repeated blows. Because that’s how fear and obedience are created…you have to beat them into somebody for the lesson to stick.
And now, having said that (and gained an unwanted view into how these dudes “think”), please excuse me while I go vomit quietly in a distant bathroom.
The men who created the above memes don’t like themselves. They have to throw women under the bus when it comes to attractiveness to get through their day. “Yeah, maybe I’m not a looker…but, but…but…look at that woman! She’s a fattie! Don’t look at me! Look at her! It’s horrible!”
They do it with age too. Men like that don’t like getting older. When they need to feel better, they convince themselves that a woman getting older is somehow an affront. I once heard a 20-something dude say, “Wrinkles make a man look distinctive.” Yeah. He was one of those duders who wasn’t getting all they women he thought he deserved, so he tapped into one of the many sexist BIO-TROOFS that exist to buffer fragile male egos. If he believes it hard enough, he can convince himself all the hot women will come when he’s 50. See? Personal crisis adverted. It’s amazing how they’ve rigged everything to just avoid their own fears.
This is outside the context of intimate partner violence, but just falling to the pavement as the result of a punch is often deadly – and it’s happened often enough here (men punching strangers in the street and killing them) that there’s legislation afoot, or was, to ramp the sentencing for it right up.
Thank you everyone who responded. I really appreciate it.
I had swift, very sarcastic thoughts as I looked at the memes, including 6: And what MRA fantasy is this supposed to be? HB10 with no panties wriggling out of her jeans for action when all of a sudden her boyfriend blurts out, ‘MGTOW. A man who understands that sexual attraction and intimacy are separate from financial obligation. . .’ out of nowhere? She should run away. Like whoa.
Immediately afterward:
And now here’s David Futrelle as some sort of albino silkworm. Strange. No, Mum, I’m Busy– ha ha! He should totally write that and sell it to AFVM in exchange for a Commemorative Coin. . .