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"Feminists lie about rape because it's a badge of honor," and other insights from the upside-down world of Men's Rights Redditors

Oopsy daisy.
Oopsy daisy.

You know how, in The Poseidon Adventure, the giant cruise ship gets flipped over by a huge wave and the passengers have to make their way through the upside-down ship to the bottom of the hull, which is now the top, in order to survive?

Well, the Men’s Rights subreddit is kind of like that. The only way to get upvotes is to look at everything upside-down.

See, e.g., this comment addressing the issue of rape, and why feminists allegedly lie about it:

5HourEnergyExtra 8 points 1 day ago       what motivates women and feminists to lie about rape  These are really very two different questions. Women can have any number of motivations. My own speculations are that they're peer pressured into calling it rape, ashamed something happened, want attention, want revenge, or something else. But the variance is enormous.  Feminists lie about rape because it's a badge of honor. Other feminists will come to them with open arms and love them forever. They also do it because it furthers he legitimacy of their movement. If any random room contains a woman who was raped then it helps the cause, even if they have to be that woman, and even if the woman in the next room is doing exactly the same thing.      lie about rape statistics on all fronts to set the bar for consensual sex so high no couple in a committed relationship meets it?  It validates their cause. Women have it pretty good nowadays. No violence, no discrimination in hiring, no discrimination in education, nothing bad really. They've got cat calling going against them but that seems less than spectacular. Whistle's don't hurt anyone; they're just annoying.  But, sexual violence (if and only if we pretend prisoners don't exist) is at least a little bit lopsided such that women have it worse. Moreover, it's actually very bad. So, they milk it for all its worth. To do this, you need to lie about statistics, stretch the definition as far as it goes, ignore prisoners (including the 63% who are there purely on time a woman wouldn't have gotten), and say it's the dominant force in our culture and proves patriarchy.      What is their agenda?  If they're not oppressed than feminism is gonners. Sexual violence is still such that if they bend the statistics, it sounds like they have it worse than men with respect to sexual violence. It's the last stronghold of feminism and they need to milk this one for all it's worth. If they can't do that, then they'll have to realize they aren't oppressed and watch people lose patience for them being unambitious in legal prospects, sitting out the draft, getting a free pass through the legal system, and so on. They'll lose their privilege.      What do they hope to achieve and who gets thrown under the bus in the process?  What they want is to be society's special little snowflakes who we love and care for who never have to do anything at all. We get thrown in prison, raped, killed, and have our lives destroyed to make this happen for them.      permalink     save     give gold  [–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points 1 day ago   Nailed it. feminismlies2

Nailed it, indeed.

(I'd still eat them.)
(I’d still eat them.)

H/T — r/againstmensrights. For more “nailed it” memes, try Buzzfeed.

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schwadevivre
5 years ago

@ grumpyoldnurse
You were brave.

@ all those who have been sexually or physically assaulted virtual hugs

Ipecac/Aporiac – You can take that fraudulent talking point and place it back in the orifice from which you extracted it.

goodrumo
5 years ago

A few things come to mind after reading his written thoughts..the well that he has spiralled so far down into where beliefs and narrative become real, (The Believing Brain), is this going to be how he is for eternity? Thirdly, I hope he had a bex and a good lie down after that because it sounds so illogically-exhausting..

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
5 years ago

*Minor correction a few hours later: I really should have put “Defense” in quotes, sorry.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

lie about rape statistics on all fronts to set the bar for consensual sex so high no couple in a committed relationship meets it

*blinks*

I kind of feel sorry for this guy (in a “no, not really – he’s a prat” kind of way).
He’d go into a fit if he knew what “a couple in a committed relationship” can get up to with trust, self control, and a safe word.

And I’ll join the chorus of people asking what effing planet this guy/these guys are from with their views on discrimination – but they’re probably part of the same crowd that grandly declares, “America’s a post-racial society! Look! See! We have a black president!”

re: the (I’m going to go ahead and say “troll”) who asked, “So WHY do women lie about rape?” (on my phone, not scrolling up to find the name): While I’ve personally never met one, I’d venture that if a person lies about rape it’s because they’re an asshole. There might be other factors – fear of familial or in-group retaliation, a person in a a position of low relative power using the means at their disposal to retaliate against a wrong (real or perceived), or it being part of some delusion (something similar actually once happened to my husband during college – he met a girl *once* through mutual friends, and she went on to tell everyone that they were actively dating and that he was cruelly ignoring her / cheating on her…it’s not too far of a stretch to imagine her inventing a tale of sexual assault if she hadn’t ended up hospitalized before the end of the semester) – but they’re all assholes (with the possible exception of someone with a mental illness who genuinely can’t separate reality from their illusions).

People who lie about crimes committed are assholes and should be prosecuted – and are, as far as I can tell.

But that’s just my hypothesis – my guess borne from tertiary observation since I’ve never actually met anyone who’s done that.

What I have met and have known are victims of sexual assault, ranging from “actually raped” (in quotes to mock whoever that dumb fuck US Rep was who asserted that “rape” was constrained to being viciously beaten and penetrated) to raped through non-consent (as in she was at a party and woke up to find her pants and underwear off and found out -second hand- that several men “took a turn” with her while she was non-responsive) to drugged while at a bar and assaulted (a guy, by the way).

And – huh, whaddya know – much against the MRA/rape apologist narrative, one – *one* – reported it to the police (the victim of “real rape” – though, unfortunately, too late to collect meaningful physical evidence – and DONCHAFUCKIN KNOW she was treated WONDERFULLY by the police who then did everything in their power to bring the guy to justice. /MASSIVE-FUCKING-SARCASM FONT

(*breathes* – sorry, I’m getting a little emotional)

The attackers of the other two were never even *touched by accusation* because the victims – my friends – felt too ashamed. When it happened, they each felt like it was their fault for putting themselves in those situations.
They thought that even if they went to the police, even if their assaults were reported, that nothing would be done.
So they’ve lived with what’s happened. They’ve lived with the fear and shame and grief because they’ve thought – probably correctly – that no one in authority would care.

So, god damn rape apologists and deniers. I hope that the lot of them choke on their own bile.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

I was going to respond to the troll by asking when he stopped beating his wife, but in MRAland, that actually isn’t a loaded question.

Let’s do a small thought experiment. The red pillers are always crying about how eeeeasy women have it, what with no discrimination, no wage gap, guaranteed child support, being showered with government money, always being able to have sex with the man of their choice (all women are cishet, of course), and being able to get whatever they want with their magic oppressive butt power. Okay. Now let’s suppose a magic fairy came and offered the red pillers the chance to magically switch genders for the rest of their lives. Who here thinks any of them would jump at the chance to go through life as a woman? (And no, they don’t get to be a “genetic celebrity” hot babe – their current level of attractiveness and social skills would stay the same.)

Oh, and let’s sweeten the deal by guaranteeing them a strong protector alpha redpill male owner who expects cooking, cleaning, childbearing, blow jobs on demand, and total unquestioning obedience, and will back it up with physical violence, manipulation, and emotional abuse. Because that’s what all women really want. And constant street harrassment because, hey, it’s just catcalls and whistles! Don’t forget the slut shaming, the ageism, and the body shaming. All this can be yours for the low low price of switching genders, redpillers!

Any more takers?

If no, that pretty much puts the lie their claim that women’s lives are cushy relative to men.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

grumpyoldnurse, Bina, Ire (and anyone I missed – little screen on my phone) – I’m sorry those things happened to you. Hugs if you want them and admiration of your bravery in talking about your assaults.

b.tom.darga
b.tom.darga
5 years ago

@schwadevivre. Are you kidding? With MRAs is ALWAYS “business time”.

http://youtu.be/AqZcYPEszN8

dorabella
dorabella
5 years ago

Buttercup, your argument is very reasonable, but I’m not sure it stands completely. I know that my life would have been much easier if I had been a man. Hell, when I was 5 I had a fit, I couldn’t stop crying, because I wasn’t born male (it was the first time that it hit me, how many more things boys could do).
But still, now I’m very happy to be a woman. Being a woman is awesome, even if it’s a harder life. if nothing else, for the multiple orgasms 🙂
So, you see, realizing that men have it easier does not immediately translate in wishing to switch, if given the magical opportunity. I have very mixed feeling about it.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

So, the line goes:

1. Women are not people, so they don’t inherently deserve respect nor compassion.

2. Women must make efforts to please in order to (maybe) gain respect and/or compassion.

3. Women get compassion for being raped or openly and massively harassed like they were, indeed, humans.

Therefore, women must be lying or framing men into raping and harassing them, to get attention, respect and compassion they don’t deserve. THEY ARE CHEATING ON THIS GAME, YOU HEAR ME.

Also, since “unearned” respect and compassion are a “privilege”, it equals a “badge of honor”.

BUT ALSO:

1. Women don’t like sex with me, therefore no woman enjoys sex. At all. Ever.

2. “Consent” would mean she gets [whatever she is using sex to manipulate men with], and I get sex in exchange.

3. Women don’t decide what they’re manipulating us for: we know that by pulling it out of our ass.

Therefore, I get to decide whether sex was consensual according to my idea of her getting what she wants.

Any removal of my authority to decide everything in this situation equals OPPRESSION and SETTING THE CONSENT BAR SO HIGH OMG.

They can’t conceive the idea of women enjoying sex and having choices of our own.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

So you don’t agree with the Reddit commenter. Fine. What’s your explanation for why feminists lie about rape then?

Prove I don’t know the magical words that will destroy the Earth.

You just made a positive claim, you stupid piece of shit. You provide evidence to support it. That’s how it works. Otherwise, go back to the rock you slithered out from under.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

The comment section for that story about Anita Sarkeesian and Mirrors Edge is pretty unsurprising. Lots of guys ranting about “evil femnazis” while defending GG and claim there is not sexism in gaming .

Falconer
5 years ago

@Aporiac:

So you don’t agree with the Reddit commenter. Fine. What’s your explanation for why feminists lie about rape then?

Wow.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I love how the troll asked a question and then didn’t come back to see and respond to the answers. It’s like he just thought it was some big gotcha that no one could ever argue against.

Ellesar
5 years ago

I have only known one woman who lied about rape. It was attempted date rape, and she got away, and reported it to the police. Months later she kept referring to it as ‘when I was raped’. But this is a woman who has lied about having cancer, having a stalker, and I believe made her child ill/ more ill, when he was younger. She clearly has quite a serious MH problem. And BTW, she is about the least feminist woman you could meet.

In my experience women who have been raped are not exactly forthcoming – feminist or not. I had a v close friend who only told me after a year. Most women who have told me have told me very little. Rapes within relationships are particularly shameful for them. NONE of them reported to the police – generally the view is that there is no point, you will be treated appallingly and your attacker will probably not even go to court.

maistrechat
5 years ago

This … is not fun. The whole argument reminds me of Rufus in Kindred – despite being told to his face why what he’s doing is totally not okay, he is still unable to see it. He’s so blinded by the prejudices he was born with that treating other people as people and not like objects doesn’t even occur to him.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

@dorabella – That’s true, being a man doesn’t guarantee a bed of roses, and being a woman isn’t all bad. I was trying to point out the doublethink of MRAs who think women lead charmed, perfect lives full of all the bon-bons, money, and power, yet at the same time view them as subhuman sex objects.

The key is in the “why?” – the different reasons for not wanting to switch. The average person, if given the opportunity to trade up to what they define as a higher status identity, would probably think it over and say “hmmm…tempting, but no thanks. I’m pretty happy with my current identity”. An MRA would recoil in horror: “Be a *girl*?? Are you kidding me???” They’d be afraid of getting treated the way they treat women. And rightly so.

(Actually, many of them would probably be all “cool huh huh i’d get to have boobies 24/7 and touch them anytime i want huh huh”. That’s their idea of true privilege.).

What they want is to be society’s special little snowflakes who we love and care for who never have to do anything at all. We get thrown in prison, raped, killed, and have our lives destroyed to make this happen for them.

Hey, redpill guys? If you’re starting wars and committing crimes in order to woo and impress women, 1) that’s really pathetic and 2) knock it off. Nobody is impressed.

Ellesar
5 years ago

I read the post again and need to make a point about rape in the male prisoner population. I do not know all the stats, but as far as I can ascertain this is a US specific problem. No other national system accepts and turns a blind eye to sexual violence in prisons as much as the US system. Also, in some countries male prison guards rape and assault female prisoners with impunity. They do rape men too, but most men are raped by male prisoners, not guards.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

1. Women are not people, so they don’t inherently deserve respect nor compassion.

2. Women must make efforts to please in order to (maybe) gain respect and/or compassion.

3. Women get compassion for being raped or openly and massively harassed like they were, indeed, humans.

Therefore, women must be lying or framing men into raping and harassing them, to get attention, respect and compassion they don’t deserve. THEY ARE CHEATING ON THIS GAME, YOU HEAR ME.

Also, since “unearned” respect and compassion are a “privilege”, it equals a “badge of honor”.

That makes sense…in a horrible, BizarroWorld kind of way. Imagine, the fucktoys have spoken, and they have said NO! The fucktoys have defined rape on their terms, not those of men! Men’s “rights” have been infringed! Oh NOES! Must discredit the fucktoys! Before civilization goes up in smoke!

1. Women don’t like sex with me, therefore no woman enjoys sex. At all. Ever.

2. “Consent” would mean she gets [whatever she is using sex to manipulate men with], and I get sex in exchange.

3. Women don’t decide what they’re manipulating us for: we know that by pulling it out of our ass.

Therefore, I get to decide whether sex was consensual according to my idea of her getting what she wants.

Any removal of my authority to decide everything in this situation equals OPPRESSION and SETTING THE CONSENT BAR SO HIGH OMG.

They can’t conceive the idea of women enjoying sex and having choices of our own.

What? They’re human? They have desires, and their desires don’t coincide with mine? Or with my ideas of what their desires should be, if they were to have any, which of course they don’t, because women = FUCKTOYS? Heresy! No fucktoy desires allowed! No humanity for fucktoys! No more talk of consent, you’re disturbing teh menz! Fucktoy entitlement forever, and fucktoy entitlement ONLY!

(Also insert vague resentments re: sex as transaction, prostitution, all women being prostitutes, etc.)

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

Bina, grumpyoldnurse, and maskerade, and anyone else who has shared their stories here that I may have forgot: I’m sorry that happened. People are assholes. You’re very brave for sharing your stories. Hugs and non-contact gestures of support, whatever you prefer.

maskerade: I just wanted to say that people not respecting your boundaries is fucked up. Telling people you don’t like to be touched is reason enough. You shouldn’t have to provide any details beyond “I don’t like to be touched right now” in order to “justify” your personal boundaries. And for fuck sake no one should be touching you after they know you don’t want to be touched and knowing your history is just beyond wrong. Everyone has a right to set their personal boundaries wherever they want for whatever reason they want, and people who knowingly violate those boundaries are asshats.

So trolly’s big gotcha is basically going, “Yuh-huh, feminist do too lie about rape!” We got a great debater here, folks.

Karalora
5 years ago

An MRA would recoil in horror: “Be a *girl*?? Are you kidding me???” They’d be afraid of getting treated the way they treat women. And rightly so.

I think it’s more than that. They think women get all the breaks, but they also think women are inherently inferior. It’s horrible that we get all these (supposed) benefits, and they don’t, not because of straightforward injustice but because to them, it should be the other way around. Men are inherently awesome and should receive accolades and awards for their awesome mannitude. Women are inherently trash and should receive nothing but scorn for their shameful womanfulness.

So it’s not just that they wouldn’t want to be women in the world as they would make it, but that in any world, women are scum to them, and they don’t want to be scum.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Where did that troll go?

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

So trolly’s big gotcha is basically going, “Yuh-huh, feminist do too lie about rape!” We got a great debater here, folks.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/197/156/smokin_weed.jpg

Meanwhile, the crickets sing for our dullest drive-by pooper yet…

b.tom.darga
b.tom.darga
5 years ago

@Ellesar.
. Prison rape is universal. I don’t know where you got the idea that this is restricted to the US from but it’s not right. On the other hand I don’t expect a lot of countries feel comfortable pelt discussing rape in their prisons. US just probably has more honest and accurate stats than most other places outside western Europe.

kittehserf
5 years ago

Who was that troll, something-Nature? He was not only dull but incomprehensible, though at least he stuck to short non-sequiturs.

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

We got a great debater here, folks.

A master ‘bater, even.

kittehserf
5 years ago

Nequam, yup!

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Deliver to Nequam, one Internet, replete with cats. Enjoy!

kittehserf
5 years ago

Heh – not specifically relevant to this thread, but this one works for misogynists of all sorts.

http://cdnpix.com/show/imgs/e57a4a1d4cc0e44adb2d3fbad6ea42a7.jpg

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

I’m not sure if it’s a badge of honour, but here are my thoughts, for what’s they are worth: –

I’m a guy in my fifties, so I’m mostly perfectly satisfied with ‘neck up’ relationships with women. For me to have sex with a woman these days she needs to be very special. I still occasionally sleep with women in their twenties and thirties, but they are generally so absurd I end up having to dump them. The sex part is fun, but is not sufficient compensation for the stupidity that invariably reveals itself. Women in their forties and fifties have usually just about come to terms with themselves and so tend to be more fun.

I think I’ve had somewhat fewer than 50 sexual partners in my life, all but one of whom was a woman. Maybe a third or so really liked rough sex and urged me to be more violent than I was prepared to go. I’ve always tried to be considerate of the wishes and needs of my sexual partners, but there comes a point where I find violence off-putting. Sexual urgency, passion, hard fucking, rough sex and surrendering to pure physicality are beautiful things, but there is a line I’m not prepared to cross. Sexual experience is a learning curve, and so you learn your own boundaries, and if you’ve got any sense you develop the confidence to decline any invitation to cross them. I consider all of this to be a matter of taste, and so I’m not embarrassed on my behalf or on behalf of my partner if she wants something I’m not prepared to give. I don’t care if she says it gives her pleasure if it make me uncomfortable. I’m certain I’m not a pussy – it’s just that different people like different things. This is no different in sex than in anything else, although it is a bit more personal so some tact is merited.

I don’t think most feminists lie about rape as a badge of honour. I suspect it’s more a female psyche thing. A very high proportion of women greatly enjoy rape fantasies whether they admit it or not. Of course, that’s not to say they actually want to be raped, but there are rape scenarios that have a tremendous erotic charge to do with being overwhelmed, being able to enjoy and indulge in violent sex without having to ask for it, or even acknowledge it, the excitement of not being in control, etc. Sex is powerful. I want women to enjoy their sexuality, including whatever happens in their imaginations. There are no limits to this as far as I’m concerned – whatever makes them wet is great news to me on their behalf. However, I don’t necessarily want to be involved in this or implicated in it.

This is where some of the problem lies, in my opinion. Some people have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality. The line between imagination, with all of its excitement and fears, and reality gets blurred. This is the problem that some feminists have – they let their rape fantasies out of proportion and allow them to escape from their proper place, which should be in the mind. Obviously, rape does occur in real life, but real life and fantasies are not the same.

When I read the UVA story I knew it was a rape fantasy. Of course, I couldn’t be 100% certain, but I was 99% sure. I don’t like rape porn, but I do like some porn when I’m in the mood, but it has to be vaguely believable. The characters can’t be complete caricatures or the magic disappears. I’m prepared to suspend my disbelief up to a certain point, but porn producers need to help me a bit and not make their productions completely unrealistic or I can’t focus on anything else. And that was the problem with the rape porn published in Rolling Stone magazine. For women who like that sort of stuff, you really should demand higher standards. Feminism is not serving you well.

katz
5 years ago

A very high proportion of women greatly enjoy rape fantasies whether they admit it or not.

Oh good, I’m glad we have Aporiac here to tell us what we enjoy and what we don’t. God knows we can’t just go by our actual feelings.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
5 years ago

How kind of him to post some of the porn he wrote himself in this very thread! Like you said though, dude, gotta make it believable, and you really failed to reach that bar.

Bear
Bear
5 years ago

When I read the UVA story I knew it was a rape fantasy.

omg Aporiac. STFU. You don’t get to tell women that what they went through was just a “fantasy that they let out of proportion.”

thebewilderness
5 years ago

The most common lie women tell about rape is in an effort to convince ourselves that it wasn’t really rape. Oddly enough men tell themselves the same lie.
The rape fantasy myth is one of those so bie lies men never get tired of telling.

thebewilderness
5 years ago

Auto correct is ignorant of zombie lies. Silly auto correct.

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

@katz – I wouldn’t dream of telling you what you enjoy. My darling, there is no “we” about it. When you have sex is your partner, is he/she having sex with with you or with “we.” You really are being silly.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
5 years ago

I for one am willing to believe that there is no “we” involved in Aporiac’s sex life.

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

@hebewilderness “The most common lie women tell about rape is in an effort to convince ourselves that it wasn’t really rape.” So some women do lie about rape then? My advice is not to lie.

thebewilderness
5 years ago

Aporiac, you got slime all over this thread. Creepy d00d, creep back under your rock.

thebewilderness
5 years ago

Your wilfull misunderstanding continues to illustrate your character.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Dude. No. All the ew.

Everyone else… I smell sock.

katz
5 years ago

Goddammit, I just got out of the shower and then he called me his “darling” and now I have to go get right back in.

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

@Bear “You don’t get to tell women that what they went through was just a “fantasy that they let out of proportion.”

I don’t tell women anything collectively. However, fantasy and reality both exist, and are not the same things. For some susceptible people they get confused. I don’t think this is controversial claim. It seems to me your apparent belief that things are otherwise shows you to be highly credulous – precisely the kind of person who could believe anything, including about herself, lol. I don’t think I’d trust anything you say.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

J.S.

Is that you?

I’m totally betting J.S. as sock-man.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

(claiming he is a sock is slightly better than the idea that there are multiple of his ilk, even though there could very well be multiple of his ilk)

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

I’ve already said, I don’t want to be implicated in your rape fantasies, ladies. That is not to say I resent you having them. I want you to have fun, and if I provide an imaginative vehicle for this that’s also okay. But you really need to learn where the line between your imagination and me lies, lol.

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

Just because it’s not my thing doesn’t mean you need to feel guilty about it. Different strokes for different folks is my motto 🙂

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
5 years ago

Aw, he’s trying so hard. Bless.

Aporiac
Aporiac
5 years ago

I feel somewhat used, so I think I’d better leave.

katz
5 years ago

I don’t tell women anything collectively.

One hour ago:

I suspect it’s more a female psyche thing. A very high proportion of women greatly enjoy rape fantasies whether they admit it or not.

I want women to enjoy their sexuality, including whatever happens in their imaginations.

For women who like that sort of stuff, you really should demand higher standards. Feminism is not serving you well.

Another victim of our ability to scroll up.