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The Men's Rights activist behind a fraudulent White Ribbon website accuses the real White Ribbon Australia of fraud

Sydney's White Ribbon Day walk this year
Sydney’s White Ribbon Day walk this year

November 25th is White Ribbon Day in Australia, a day devoted to ending domestic violence against women. This year – the 25th has already drawn to a close in Australia – there were reportedly hundreds of White Ribbon events held across the country, including a massive march in suburban Sydney that drew thousands of participants.

White Ribbon Australia, which describes itself as “Australia’s only national, male led Campaign to end men’s violence against women” calls on men to “swear never to commit, excuse or remain silent about violence against women.” It helps to coordinate events in schools and workplaces, and has gotten support from police departments across the country as well as from various branches of the nation’s military.

It’s also gotten the attention of the folks at A Voice for Men.

Not that long ago, as you may recall, everyone’s favorite Men’s Rights hate site set up its own phony White Ribbon website in an attempt to push its own noxious views on domestic violence, undermine real White Ribbon organizations worldwide – and to do a bit of fundraising of its own. (AVFM, perhaps fearing legal reprisal, has since taken down the “donate” button it used to have on the site.)

Now AVFM has decided to take White Ribbon Australia on directly, declaring November 25th to be “White Ribbon Fraud Day.” That’s right: the group that just set up a fake White Ribbon website is accusing the real domestic violence awareness group of fraud.

AVFM’s head boy Paul Elam declares in his typically overheated prose that

Profiteers have now industrialized battered women, reducing them to storefront mannequins for the sake of lining their pockets. …

One of the most deplorable examples of that in existence today is the so-called “White Ribbon Campaign.” … Their modus operandi is to paint a false picture of the problem, identifying its sole source as abusive men and its sole victims as helpless women. It is a calculated deception that flies in the face of virtually all known credible research on the issue, but it is a financial windfall because female-only victims and male-only perpetrators have proven to provide the best incentive for inspiring well-meaning people to give money.

Perhaps the worst of the worst in this worldwide consortium of con artists is the White Ribbon Campaign in Australia.

Never mind the actual domestic violence survivors (not mannequins) who show up and speak out at White Ribbon Day events. Never mind that Elam’s notion of “credible research” on the subject of domestic violence is considered by most DV experts as seriously flawed.

And never mind that Elam himself seems to think that the best “solution” to domestic violence perpetrated by women against men is for men

to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

This isn’t the only time that the truculent Elam has fantasized publicly about beating up women.

So the idea that Elam is some sort of moral authority on the issue of domestic violence is laughable.

But let’s hear him out anyway.

Elam’s “smoking gun” against White Ribbon Australia? That after a cursory examination of the group’s publicly available financial records

we have found no evidence that White Ribbon Australia has ever contributed a solid nickel to a single service for actual victims of domestic violence. That includes female victims.

Well, Paul, that’s probably because THAT’S NOT WHAT WHITE RIBBON AUSTRALIA DOES. There are numerous groups in Australia that do provide direct support to victims of domestic violence; White Ribbon Australia links to many of them on its website.

But, as the group makes plain on its website, it doesn’t provide direct assistance. Instead, it “work[s] to change the attitudes and behaviours that lead to violence against women.”

What does this mean? Well, in addition to White Ribbon Day events (and other events held throughout the year), the group organizes programs in schools and workplaces, recruits and works with corporate partners, and trains Advocates and Amabassadors to speak out against violence against women.

The efforts of White Ribbon Australia and other DV organizations to raise awareness are bearing fruit; indeed, the Australian government earlier this year pledged $100 million to step up the fight against domestic violence.

A Voice for Men, meanwhile, has set up a phony website to undermine these efforts.

I think it’s pretty clear who the real fraud is here.

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Bina
Bina
7 years ago

At this point I’m pretty much convinced that the Facebook staff are more or less ideologically in line with Paulie and co, even if they’re smart enough not to say so in public. If you look at what they do and don’t censor a pretty clear pattern of woman-hating emerges.

Yup. They won’t censor porny boobs, but breastfeeding ones? “Obscene”!

And even explicit violence and threats thereof? Fuggeddaboudit. I’ve noticed that they even let blatant Holocaust denial slide.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

“Are you a straight male WASP? No? Then we don’t care what happens to you on our site, stop emailing us about it”.

Basically.

Tracy
Tracy
7 years ago

FB did, however, take down a page advertising gun safes (not guns… gun safes) that was violating… nothing. So figure that one out. Harrassment, racism, sexism etc is a-ok but by gawd, you will not advertise gun safes on FB!

I’m happy to see that Elam has removed the original ‘battered man’ image they were using, at the request of the man in the image. It was a guy who’d been beaten up in a bar fight – I found him on LinkedIn and let him know they were using his picture without permission, and he told them to remove it. Like, they can’t even be ethical about imagery, or be assed to care about the privacy OF A FELLOW MAN, fer crissakes.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Gun safes? As in SAFE STORAGE OF FIREARMS?

Oy. My face and palm are both getting a workout today.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

And double-facepalm about the dude who got beat up in a bar and then (ab)used by Paulie to promote VAW. How utterly charming!

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Sociopathy is not considered a mental illness, and does not appear in the DSM. Thus, my comment is not a “diagnosis” but rather an observation of a pattern of traits and behaviours among individuals like Elam. (Observing the pattern can be useful in not only understanding the particular individual but also the reactions of their followers and believers.)

Do you even go here? You were asked not to do a thing, not double down on it.

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
7 years ago

……the term for sociopathy in the DSM is antisocial personality disorder, is it not? I gotta call bullshit on headcheese here.

Boogerghost
Boogerghost
7 years ago

Gasp! Not giving money directly to victims?! J’accuse! I missed the part where the AVFM White Ribbon clone even pretended it was going to use ITS donations for anything other that Paul’s manly foodstuffs and some conference lanyards.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
7 years ago

It’s awfully gutsy of Mr. “All donations go straight to me, and I am the sole decider of where it gets spent, and no, I am not obligated to share any of that information with you” to criticize White Ribbon for pretty much any way they use their funds.

Much more so when their offense is simply not using their money for things they don’t claim to use their money for.

kage
kage
7 years ago

White Ribbon does a good job done here in Australia, but a lot of the credit for the increasing awareness and financial support has to go to Rosie Batty. Her son was killed by his father earlier this year and her courageous, honest and wise advocacy since has been nothing short of remarkable. Read her story if you are unaware, she is an amazing woman. http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2014/october/1412085600/helen-garner/mother-courage

Crissa
Crissa
7 years ago

A little double-plus ungood on the speech patrol there. Are we not supposed to have words to describe antisocial attitudes?

And no, sociopathic is a description of behavior. It’s not a diagnosis in the DSM, and hasn’t ever been. Yes, it’s used as an insult – because it’s a negative behavior. As is assault and harassment.

It’s mostly over-used. But Sherlock Holmes is described as a ‘high functioning sociopath’, for instance, but he’s a fictional character. There is no one hospitalized as a sociopath, alas, I certainly can think of a few who sure seem to fit the bill but instead have gone on to be runners-up for the job of President.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Shut up, Chrissa. We don’t do internet diagnoses here.

Falconer
7 years ago

Okay. Well, I’m going to take a page out of Elam’s book: here I made the real Mona Lisa. The one in the Louvre is a fake set up by con artists. Can I have money now?

There’s a whole Doctor Who serial (written by none other than Douglas Adams!) about not-fake Mona Lisas. One of the cleverest plots, IMHO.

Falconer
7 years ago

One of *the show’s cleverest plots.

Falconer
7 years ago

@Woody:

You realize that Paul is engaging in POLITICAL SATIRE, right?

I realize that whenever he’s caught being horrible, we can rely on you to show up and try the satire defense on.

Have you actually been trying to post all this time? Well, you finally got one through. Here, have a Coors and rest on your laurels.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

It’s twice as satirical if you hit the caps lock key.

(gospellcheckmeinkampf.org? We seem to have run out of ways to tell Woody to shut up.)

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

A little double-plus ungood on the speech patrol there. Are we not supposed to have words to describe antisocial attitudes?

oh no, everyone! yet again, this blog’s commenting standards don’t meet crissa’s personal approval, so the standards clearly must change! it’s not at all unreasonable for established trolls to demand that commenters comply with their whims!

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

So at what point will people recognise that you completely miss 50 % of all victims by focusing on the sexist stereotyping of men as always being the aggressors, many many guys have been the victims of domestic violence and no one cares about them (we don’t make very good victims for $$$$ do we) which we all know is not always the case you ignore repeated proven NZ and Australian studies and shamelessly fool others,people are waking up to the blatant porky pies and not these “white knight” “man purses” , you parade around as supporters.

is this really a single sentence? it almost made grammatical sense until the “porky pies” part, at which point it lost me. is that some kind of slang, or simple fat-shaming?

hey, idiot. nobody has claimed that men cannot be victims of domestic violence. nobody is stopping avfm from starting their own campaign to help male victims of domestic violence. they can even focus on only men! that would be okay!

what’s not okay is the simultaneous denial that dv is gendered, and demand that other organizations change their missions to suit your personal goals. avfm is too fucking lazy to tackle this supposed epidemic of male victims of dv, so they demand that everyone else do it for them. fuck you. white ribbon has a mission, and you don’t set it. if you think there should be a mirror campaign to end domestic violence against men, start one. i guarantee that white ribbon would happily partner with any such campaign. that’s how this shit works out here in reality, where people who want things done make an effort of their own, instead of whining about how nobody else is doing it for them so they can sit on their ass and do nothing

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Oh, trolly, when will you learn? The man is not the purse, the man is the servant who carries the purse. Do try to keep up.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

I think it might be a way to say blatant lies? There’s a danish expression called “election-pork”, the rich sultry meats people promise you in the months up to an election.

Puddleglum
7 years ago

A little double-plus ungood on the speech patrol there. Are we not supposed to have words to describe antisocial attitudes?

There are hundreds of words we can use without bringing mental illness into it. Strange how you don’t seem to know any of them. Keep this up and we’ll be sure to give you plenty of examples.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

There’s a danish expression called “election-pork”, the rich sultry meats people promise you in the months up to an election.

In the USA it’s a “pork barrel”.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Woody came back!? Tais-toi, Woosy!

Hopefully that French is correct. Sometimes Google doesn’t give the best translations.

So at what point will people recognise that you completely miss 50 % of all victims

At what point will MRAs recognize that a slap or a shove, while absolutely the wrong way to deal with conflict, is not the same as severe sustained abuse? If you look at who people hospitalized or killed by an abusive partner are, it’s overwhelmingly women with male abusers.

From the US government

The National Family Violence Survey (NFVS) found nearly equal rates of assault (11–12 percent) by an intimate partner among both men and women. If so-called “minor” violence such as pushing and shoving is excluded, the rate is around 3 percent — more than twice the rate found in NVAWS.

NIJ researchers have found, however, that collecting various types of counts from men and women does not yield an accurate understanding of battering and serious injury occurring from intimate partner violence. National surveys supported by NIJ, CDC, and BJS that examine more serious assaults do not support the conclusion of similar rates of male and female spousal assaults. These surveys are conducted within a safety or crime context and clearly find more partner abuse by men against women.

For example, NVAWS found that women are significantly more likely than men to report being victims of intimate partner violence whether it is rape, physical assault, or stalking and whether the timeframe is the person’s lifetime or the previous 12 months. [3] NCVS found that about 85 percent of victimizations by intimate partners in 1998 were against women. [4, 5]

The studies that find that women abuse men equally or even more than men abuse women are based on data compiled through the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS), a survey tool developed in the 1970s. CTS may not be appropriate for intimate partner violence research because it does not measure control, coercion, or the motives for conflict tactics; it also leaves out sexual assault and violence by ex-spouses or partners and does not determine who initiated the violence. [6, 7]

A review of the research found that violence is instrumental in maintaining control and that more than 90 percent of “systematic, persistent, and injurious” violence is perpetrated by men. [8] BJS reports that 30 percent of female homicide victims are murdered by their intimate partners compared with 5 percent of male homicide victims, and that 22 percent of victims of nonfatal intimate partner violence are female but only 3 percent are male. [9] Researchers that use city- and State-generated databases for analysis, however, attribute 40–50 percent of female homicides to intimate partners. This discrepancy likely results from omission of ex-boyfriends and ex-girlfriends from the Federal Supplementary Homicide Reports that are used by BJS. Ex-boyfriends account for up to 11 percent of intimate partner homicides committed by men, and ex-girlfriends account for up to 3 percent of intimate partner homicides committed by women.

Source http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/intimate-partner-violence/Pages/measuring.aspx

I’m guessing the statistics in other countries are similar or some even more skewed toward men as the ones committing partner violence.

by focusing on the sexist stereotyping of men as always being the aggressors, many many guys have been the victims of domestic violence and no one cares about them

It’s not feminists who ignore that men can be victims. It’s patriarchy. We’re not the ones who think men have to be tough and macho.

(we don’t make very good victims for $$$$ do we) which we all know is not always the case you ignore repeated proven NZ and Australian studies and shamelessly fool others,people are waking up to the blatant porky pies and not these “white knight” “man purses” , you parade around as supporters. We are against all violence towards men women and children, and until you do get that spoon out of your butt and smell the shite your shovelling nothing will ever improve except your bank balance

What’s stopping MRAs from raising money for male victims? Complaining about women not doing your work for you isn’t going to get it done. Neither is fraudulently co-opting the name of an already established group. Another think that doesn’t help male victims is insulting the people who are working to end violence against women. They’re not opposed to you or anyone else helping male victims. They might even be willing to help you. But you have to realize that it’s not a zero sum game. You don’t have to take away support for female victims to help male victims.

“NZ men fed up with the NZ family court”

And the true motive for your rant emerges. Let me guess, you got divorced and your ex got primary custody (or whatever the terminology in NZ is) because she was the one who was the primary caregiver? I’ve noticed a lot of you guys want to have it both ways. When you’re married, the expectation is that most of the work involved with raising the kids will be done by your wives. But then once you get divorced, you suddenly decide you want to be the primary caregiver. Is it because you’re truly interested in cooking for the kid, chauffeuring the kids, helping with homework etc. Or is it because you want to punish the ex?

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

The only other time I’ve heard the expression “man purse” or “murse” it’s referring to a shoulder bag – usually a messenger style bag – carried by a man. This is the first I’ve heard of it being a synonym for “white knight.”

twincats
twincats
7 years ago

ShutUpWoody.tv

gilshalos
7 years ago

Porky pies is rhyming slang for lies, often shortened to porkies.

As in ‘Oh Mr Elam, you really shouldn’t tell blatant porkies’

Puddleglum
7 years ago

You know, it really warms the cockles of my malevolent heart (evil here, my avatar says so) to know that Woody is *still* here. Every once and I while, I wonder if he’s stopped reading, and we’re shouting into the void. And then he manages a post.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

@gilshalos

i see

so …

people are waking up to the blatant lies and not these “white knight” “man purses” , you parade around as supporters.

that helps, but it still doesn’t quite make sense. people are waking up to the lies, which are different from the white knights? people are not waking up to the white knights? i mean, i agree that lies and white knights are different, and it’s true that i don’t wake up to a white knight, but i don’t know how that helps convey information in this context.

gilshalos
7 years ago

I think he’s contrasting the people who are waking up as opposed to the White Knights and maningas who believe our lies.

I think.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

ohhhh so white knights and man purses are not people.

well, that’s half right

Sarity
Sarity
7 years ago

Woah, LuxLustravi. The “real” site I referred to was AVfM’s phony version, hence the quotes (that they name theirs the real site is what I was mocking). Same for the absolute uselessness of their piss-and-moan articles for real life sufferers of DV. I appreciate David’s work, and certainly that of the real (no quotes) White Ribbon Austlalia.

Happy to have brought you out of lurking, even if over a little misunderstanding.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Yes, the Family Court in New Zealand is a terrible organisation. Look how it just leaps in at the earliest possible opportunity to ruin the lives of men: http://www.justice.govt.nz/family-justice/about-children/making-decisions-about-children/getting-help-outside-the-court/overview-of-how-the-family-justice-system-can-help-you

Anyone want to take a bet against me that Dominic da Silva’s ex went via the bottom route?

headcheese88
7 years ago

@hellkell @Dawn Incognito I recommend Dr. Martha Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door and Dr. Robert Hare’s Without Conscience, both finely researched books to begin to understand sociopathy and its affects on victims and followers. Both books should give you insight on the differences between sociopathy and anti-social personality disorder. Happy reading 🙂

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

So at what point will people recognise that you completely miss 50 % of all victims by focusing on the sexist stereotyping of men as always being the aggressors, many many guys have been the victims of domestic violence and no one cares about them (we don’t make very good victims for $$$$ do we) which we all know is not always the case you ignore repeated proven NZ and Australian studies and shamelessly fool others,people are waking up to the blatant porky pies and not these “white knight” “man purses” , you parade around as supporters. We are against all violence towards men women and children, and until you do get that spoon out of your butt and smell the shite your shovelling nothing will ever improve except your bank balance. “NZ men fed up with the NZ family court”

Wall of run-on sentence says WHAT?

Oh. Just another angry shithead, yelling at the clouds.

>yawn<

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

@hellkell @Dawn Incognito I recommend Dr. Martha Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door and Dr. Robert Hare’s Without Conscience, both finely researched books to begin to understand sociopathy and its affects on victims and followers. Both books should give you insight on the differences between sociopathy and anti-social personality disorder. Happy reading 🙂

is this a sock of crissa, or do we honestly have a second and separate individual who thinks that the board conforms to their standards instead of the reverse?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

headcheese: thanks, but that is not the point.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Anyone who makes an internet diagnosis here should be forced to write a 500-word essay on circular reasoning, and confirmation bias, at minimum.

Just don’t do it. And don’t excuse it. Those of us arguing that you should stop doing it do understand the topic. Throwing “recommended reading” at us won’t change our minds.

Puddleglum
7 years ago

I vote for moderation; perhaps only non-ableist posts can be let through.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

Are they mad cuz they aren’t making a profit off domestic violence? Am I misunderstanding their rage rant?

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

Headcheese, your condescension is much appreciated 🙂 😉 :-p

beegees
beegees
7 years ago

Talking about MRA custody rants- MRAs are scarey-attached to splitting custody exactly down the middle. I remember an article on Psychology Today that talked about when splitting custody down the middle was bad for children that attracted some angry fathers righters. Shared custody, and constantly moving back and forth between houses, can be very stressful for some children, but don’t tell that to men who are only concerned with equal access.

giliell
giliell
7 years ago

Yes, and organisations that work against cruelty against animals also don’t give equal time to the fact that dogs do indeed bite humans. They are therefore fraud

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
7 years ago

And how often do humans bite dogs, anyway? Probably much less often than vice versa. It’s sheer hypocrisy I tell you. Next thing you know, they’ll put a muzzle on Richard Dawkins just because he’s been mildly rabid lately. He hasn’t even bitten anyone yet.

lith
lith
6 years ago

Policy of Madness:

people are waking up to the blatant lies and not these “white knight” “man purses” , you parade around as supporters.

also with the comma where it is “you” parade around as supporters – not the “white knights”, “man purses” or possibly even the lies people are waking up from. All my life I’ve been living a lie! or a man purse. I can’t tell which.

grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

Re ableism; there’s no need to do an armchair diagnosis over the internet. Just describe what you see, without labelling it.

e.g.) Instead of calling someone a sociopath (still a diagnosis, however sloppily it’s used in everyday speech and even though it’s not au courant as per the DSM), describe the behaviour that you actually see (this guy seems to lack empathy). Instead of calling someone psychotic, describe the behaviour (this comment is not in touch with my reality).

Do I really have to give a lecture on why internet diagnosing and ableism is bad? (answer; it’s inaccurate, it stigmatises actual illnesses, and it hurts people who live with those diagnoses and other mental illnesses). The big problem is that people who are actually mad need support, not abuse (and most of them are pretty regular, decent people whatever popular media might tell you), and most of the people who are behaving badly on the internet are choosing to be selfish, immature, reality denying, solipsistic jerks.

TL;DR – ableism is bad because it conflates the group ‘jerks’ with the group ‘mentally ill’.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Giliell, hi! (2kittehs here)

Arctic Ape:

And how often do humans bite dogs, anyway? Probably much less often than vice versa. It’s sheer hypocrisy I tell you. Next thing you know, they’ll put a muzzle on Richard Dawkins just because he’s been mildly rabid lately. He hasn’t even bitten anyone yet.

LOL!

I’d love to see him literally muzzled if that included taking away his internet access.

Unimaginative
6 years ago

I read a novel once in which a wolf was bitten by a werewolf and turned into a man every full moon.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

Unimaginative, I would read that. Do you remember what it was called?

Unimaginative
6 years ago

It was a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time ago. I suspect it had some problematic elements.