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Redditor explains why they left #GamerGate. (tl:dr: The raging hypocrisy.)

Goodbye, and thanks for nothing!
Goodbye, and thanks for nothing!

Here’s an interesting post by someone claiming to be a former GamerGater on Reddit explaining why they left the, er, movement and helpfully summing up a lot of what’s wrong with it. At least when it comes to GG’s rampant hypocrisy.  Take it away, turbonerdsupreme!

It was a mixture of things really, but I think the starting point was Milo’s “You take your tits out for a living tweets” to Liana K. Basically what gradually convinced me GG wasnt about ethics (journalistic or otherwise) was the bayonetta affair, and their sheer hypocrisy.

They claim to be fighting for Journalistic ethics, while supporting and championing highly unethical journalists like Milo and Pinsof. It’s also important not to forget the Bayonetta affair where they tried to pressure a publisher into pulling a Gerstmann, and dropping advertisments on a site that gave their game a bad review. THEY LITERALLY TRIED TO BRING ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS EXAMPLE OF CORRUPT GAMES JOURNALISM IN HISTORY.

They denounce journalists like Leigh Alexander, being rude to people on twitter, while joining in with and celebrating the outright bullying, abuse and harassment of Milo “real professional journalist” Yiannopolous (i’d hyperlink an example but there’s way too many of them to pick just one, this guy is really scum, google it)

They attack Anita for not providing good value for her kickstarter money, while supporting, glorifying and No I’m Spartacusing, someone who scammed around $15k out of people using kickstarter as well as the obvious scam that is the Sarkeesian effect. [Although good news is Sarkessian effect stuff is starting to be voted down sometimes on KiA] They also welcomed the support of the Amazing Atheist a known scammer

They mock Cheong’s neo-nazi past, while having Davis “white nationalist on paper” Aurini, Milo “Iron Cross” Yianoppulous/Wagner (seriously what the fuck is wrong with this guy), the Holocaust denying King of /poll, and Stormfront among them. Not to mention their propagating of anti-Semitic /pol/ memes and frequent use of Jew as a slur.

They Call Chu a rape apologist (a completely bullshit accusation), all the while endorsing Roosh “No never means no” V, and Mike “Why Should I care when women are raped?” Cernovich. [Although to be fair support for Roosh has met some opposition]

They get super mad at Sarkeessian for supposedly not even liking video games, all the while championing Christina “Still hasnt actually played any video games to my knowledge” Sommers, and Milo “Are you noticing a reoccurring theme here yet?” Yianopoulos.

They claim they want politics and politically charged thinktank funded academics out of video games, while supporting Christina “works for a rightwing think tank” Sommers.

They claim Anita is the new Jack Thompson while supporting Jack “The Old Jack Thompson” Thompson.

They claim Milo Yianopoulos has redeeming qualities as a human being, while being frequently exposed to his tweets, articles, and videos. While admittedly this is not hypocrisy it does show extremely poor judgement.

In conclusion the majority of GGers show such a massive double standard in their treatment of progressives and social conservatives, that it is impossible to construe it as anything other than a thinly veiled right wing socially conservative movement, with no real care for journalistic ethics. That is why I left.

The links scattered around in there are pretty illuminating.

H/T — A Division by Zer0

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Unimaginative
6 years ago

Is it too soon to feel a faint hope for humanity?

Cat of Many Faces (@CatofManyFaces)

Wait, they support Jack Thompson?!?!

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Yes, I could see where someone (especially someone who isn’t all that plugged into online feminism) could get sucked into Gamergate, especially since there are genuine problems with gaming media–and when that media helps you decide if you are going to plunk down $60 (or whatever a console-type game costs now–I am not a gamer) that is kind of personally important.

Which is funny, because Zoe Quinn released her game for free, with a request to donate to a charity for depression, so you don’t have to guess if you’ll like it and potentially be out some cash. And yet she’s the scandal they are concerned about.

Cat of Many Faces (@CatofManyFaces)

Oh. i missed the previous story…

Derp

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

I reckon this is the point when those people who actually care about game journalism are realizing that GG is not about that at all, and they are being used. Better late than never, I suppose, but I hope nobody expects me to give a standing ovation because someone finally got half a clue and broke up with GG, but managed to never once mention the misogyny of GG as a reason in their breakup essay.

Sambarge
Sambarge
6 years ago

I’m not going to lie. I read a lot here but rarely comment because the posts make me despair for the future of humanity. I have a daughter. This is the world she’s going to make her life in. So I despair. But, like a bad train wreck, I can’t look away from Manboobz/Mammoth.

This is the happiest post I’ve ever read here. I am, for a change, not despairing. There are thinkers out there. They do have critical analysis. It is possible to change their minds with facts and shit.

Thank you, David Futrelle! Thank a metric tonne for this!

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

I found this linked on the cat vs. paper army video:

Jody
Jody
6 years ago

It’s very telling that these right wing movements always have to disguise themselves as something else to gain any traction.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

This is my second favorite Vivian James art (second to the one Katz, I think, did about the SJW commando squad):

https://twitter.com/TFYCultMarxists/status/533651780803239936

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
6 years ago

This is an amazingly good post. Good job, turbonerdsupreme.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

I’m not on board with this being a super-special-shiny-keen post. This post says, “GG didn’t do the things for me I thought it would do and I have a sad.” It does not say, “GG is full of misogynists whose only goal is to attack and silence women and that’s why I’m not behind it.” I come away with the impression that this ex-GGer was (and is) totally fine with the rape and death threats, so long as Jack Thompson and CHS aren’t under the tent trying to take away this person’s video games.

strivingally
6 years ago

Baby steps, PoM. It takes a while for the GG conditioning to wear off. 😉

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

It says something about the State of Things Today that any sign of ‘I used to be completely disgusting, now I’m only mildly objectionable’ is heralded as the sign of better things.

Yes, it does, and yes, it is.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

I think the comment above is the kind of thing that happens when someone steeped in ordinary misogyny and sexism comes across MRA-type misogyny–they are kind of okay with it, or not attuned enough to care about it if they hear about it, but get confused when the raging sexists are unable to do anything productive. Gamergate is even worse, because they have a paper-thin non-sexist justification–that they don’t do anything toward, because they don’t understand it.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

And by “comment above”, I mean the Redditor in the OP, not Robert.

Jon H
6 years ago

PoM: ” ex-GGer was (and is) totally fine with the rape and death threats,”

The poster wasn’t explicit about that, but they didn’t think much of Roosh or Cernovich. “They Call Chu a rape apologist (a completely bullshit accusation), all the while endorsing Roosh “No never means no” V, and Mike “Why Should I care when women are raped?” Cernovich”

Which IMHO suggests they probably aren’t a fan of the rape and death threats. Of course, someone could go to Reddit and ask.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

He does come out against rape apologists and their apologists. So there is hope…

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

Baby steps, PoM. It takes a while for the GG conditioning to wear off. 😉

I’m not accustomed to giving out hearty back-slaps of congratulations for baby steps.

Sharing an umbrella with literal terrorists and Nazis who threaten to rape and kill women wasn’t enough to get this ex-GGer to edge away from the movement. Nope, it took Jack Thompson, who as far as I’m aware has never threatened to murder anyone, coming in out of the rain for this person to go OMG enough is enough! I’m not going to defend Jack Thompson on the merits, but I think it’s safe to say that he’s not a spree killer waiting to happen. It says a whole lot that the terrorist spree killing threat was apparently A-OK by this ex-GGer but Jack Thompson is a bridge too far.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Also, how about that Mike Cernovich (see BoingBoing link)? It really speaks to his opportunistic nobodiness that I never heard of him until a couple of weeks ago, thanks to here.

I wish I still hadn’t, BTW. I can’t imagine anyone even liking him a little bit.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

The poster wasn’t explicit about that, but they didn’t think much of Roosh or Cernovich. “They Call Chu a rape apologist (a completely bullshit accusation), all the while endorsing Roosh “No never means no” V, and Mike “Why Should I care when women are raped?” Cernovich”

Then why wasn’t this posted to Reddit a week ago when Roosh started up his GG website? Why didn’t this GGer get out when Cernovich came on board?

If these things were offensive to this ex-GGer in any meaningful way, it wouldn’t have taken Jack Thompson to get this person to quit the group. This person would have been out the moment Cernovich hopped onto the bandwagon.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

My substantial post to youtube video ratio is getting a bit high. Have some kittens:

talbotfish
talbotfish
6 years ago

@Policy of Madness

I absolutely agree PoC..this post is legitimately worth looking at..but lets not “sue for peace”..if I’m using the term correctly.

seraph4377
6 years ago

wordsp1nner – can you repost the Vivian James commando squad? I so want to rescue the poor kid.

BTW, any lurkers who may be reading this…do you notice how much us mean, intolerant feminists and feminist allies are celebrating over a single person turning away from the dark side, even if their “reformation” is lukewarm at best and for all the wrong reasons?

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

http://pierre.thecomicseries.com/comics/35

(If you haven’t read the rest of Pierre… do it.)

And I was right–it was by our own talented Katz.

ted the fed
ted the fed
6 years ago

When your big journalistic scandal boils down basically to the fact that bunch of people write about how much they like games like Gone Home, I honestly don’t believe anyone can get sucked in, even temporarily, without some screwed-up attitudes brewing.

seraph4377
6 years ago

Thank you.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Ted the Fed–Don’t forget, a female journalist reviewed a GTA and mentioned its misogyny and rated it 9/10. 9/10! It is a travesty.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I agree POM. Especially since many of us spent a lot of time providing evidence and explanations to so-called moderate gamergaters that the whole thing was rooted in misogyny and harassment to no avail.

Plaats
6 years ago

“it is impossible to construe it as anything other than a thinly veiled right wing socially conservative movement, with no real care for journalistic ethics.”

Adam Baldwin, Breitbart et al, and JuiceBro Lawyer emphatically deny any connection to the right wing socially conservative movement and also shut up you filthy progressives.

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
6 years ago

BTW, any lurkers who may be reading this…do you notice how much us mean, intolerant feminists and feminist allies are celebrating over a single person turning away from the dark side, even if their “reformation” is lukewarm at best and for all the wrong reasons?

Well, I wouldn’t really say “All the wrong reasons” – the hypocrisy and right-wingery are still good reasons, even if they’re not the ideal reason.

But yeah, it’s a start. This guy has the potential to learn and turn against the misogyny and abuse as well, which is far more than I can say for the rest of the #Gits, most of whom will probably be hateful Republican shitstains for life.

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
6 years ago

On the other hand:

https://twitter.com/b00nes/status/535269435490467842

“This guy was never a #Gater, he’s making it up to make us look bad! Just like Anita! I have the self-awareness and reasoning ability of a cane toad that’s been dead for six months!”

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

No true Scotsman ever leaves GG.

Viceroy Bubbles von Salamancer
Viceroy Bubbles von Salamancer
6 years ago

I used to be a gigantic conservative asshole myself- I know how it feels. You don’t even feel the cognitive dissonance. A major event was needed to do more than push the nagging questions to the back of my head and believe wholeheartedly in the stupid doctrine I was spoonfed. When I went through it logically, their arguments fell apart like damp one-ply toilet paper being fired in a blast furnace. I genuinely don’t know what’s needed to make them snap out of it, besides a self-driven epiphany as our little hopeful fellow had. If you try to present arguments and/or show that they’re being major douches, they mentally explain it away with “More evidence of oppression!” If you present arguments, they shift the goalposts and twist words, using ad homenims to attack rather than genuine arguments. And one thing that’s a favorite of theirs? The Motte and Bailey doctrine. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ explains it beautifully.

Xanith
Xanith
6 years ago

So self-awareness IS possible

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

wordsp1nner, love the fierce kitty vid. Mum said that when the kitty was playing with the robot dog, the adult cat was saying “I was never like that.”

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
6 years ago

Viceroy’s link does do a good job of explaining the concept, but considering that the author compares feminism to creationism/fundamentalism and affirmative consent to “BURN IN HELL HEATHENS,” with a clear air of “And anybody who disagrees is not as enlightened (darkly enlightened, perhaps) as I am” snobbery to boot, anybody who wants to read it might want to DoNotLink it.

decourse
decourse
6 years ago

PoM, I agree with you, however to be fair to turbonerdsupreme, the misogyny and rape threats probably aren’t why he joined GG. It’s possible to convince oneself that all that crap is fringe, and it really is about journalistic ethics.

(Consider the fact that the US tortures people, and this hasn’t caused mass emigration. The American Dream(tm) is still compelling even if it’s not realistic, apparently.)

So I totally get why he said that. He probably did join GG because of games journalism. The final paragraph seems to indicate that. His point, and it’s good, is that GG doesn’t even have that going for it. His reason for joining doesn’t exist.

His piece gives off the strong impression that he feels personally betrayed. It’s understandable that this emotion would dominate.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

@M. the Social Justice Ranger
But hee doesn’t use MRAs as an example, probably because they don’t even have a motte – it’s all bailey as far as the eye can see.

katz
6 years ago

Viceroy’s link does do a good job of explaining the concept, but considering that the author compares feminism to creationism/fundamentalism and affirmative consent to “BURN IN HELL HEATHENS,” with a clear air of “And anybody who disagrees is not as enlightened (darkly enlightened, perhaps) as I am” snobbery to boot, anybody who wants to read it might want to DoNotLink it.

Yeeeeeah, I was just going to say that. It’s not a bad theory, but clearly he’s just using it as a stick to beat anyone he doesn’t like. (“Literal interpretations of the Bible” Christians and “God is a metaphor” Christians, for instance, are completely disjoint sets who wouldn’t touch each others’ doctrine with a ten-foot pole.)

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

Katz, you pegged exactly what I could not. The peeps who say this are not the same peeps who say that. Thanks.

katz
6 years ago

(Consider the fact that the US tortures people, and this hasn’t caused mass emigration. The American Dream(tm) is still compelling even if it’s not realistic, apparently.)

Or else moving is a big hassle.

decourse
decourse
6 years ago

@katz Or other countries are bad in different ways. My point is that Americans still feel that they can call themselves Americans because what it means to be American isn’t that (whatever that is).

chaltab
chaltab
6 years ago

This doesn’t sound like someone who is just a little misogynist coming to terms with the way-too-misogynist crowds around him to me. It sounds like someone who wasn’t terribly sexist to begin with realizing that It’s not actually about Ethics in Games Journalism. The hypocrisy of ones own ‘side’ in an argument is, after all, the best antidote to cognitive dissonance I know of. I was fairly right-wing as a teenager, not because I was racist or sexist but because I had not yet grasped the ways in which right-wing ideology is used to prop-up racism and sexism.

I’d say GamerGate is particularly egregious because there is no logic to it AT ALL without the base assumptions of ‘women are outsiders trying to take over the industry and kick us out’… But then I suppose a lot of people would have said the same thing to me ten years ago.

katz
6 years ago

My point is that Americans still feel that they can call themselves Americans because what it means to be American isn’t that (whatever that is).

Er…what it means to be an American is I was born in America and thus have US citizenship? It’s a statement of fact, not necessarily an ideological position.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Also, if you’re American and decide to denounce your American-ness without having alternate citizenship lined up doesn’t that render you stateless? I kind of get where dude is going, but otoh grandstanding of the “I cannot call myself an American because…” variety just lends support to the idea that what it means to be an American (or a citizen of any country) is some assortment of ideological blather rather than simply being a citizen of the nation in question, and the ideological blather may not always be of the kind of which you would approve.

duckbunny
6 years ago

What it takes to stop being American: at minimum, uprooting your whole life, leaving behind almost all your friends and family, and starting over in a new place with its own culture. You may have to maintain employment to be permitted to stay; you may have to marry a citizen. You may have to learn a whole new language. It will certainly cost you money to do it.

What it takes to stop being a Gamergater: Saying “I am no longer a Gamergater” or words to that effect.

These things are really not equivalent. You can’t be born into the gamergating ideology. You don’t have to move thousands of miles from everyone you know to stop participating in it. It’s easy. Convincing yourself that the gamergaters ever had a real point is a voluntary act and you should feel bad for doing it; the absence of reasoning beyond harrassing women was obvious to everyone else. It’s not like being an American. It’s like being wilfully obnoxious.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

@wordsp1nner

That little Nikita has a big meow for such a tiny baby! I was expecting a squeaky noise!

ParadoxicalIntention
ParadoxicalIntention
6 years ago

While reading the post, I felt happy that this person posted that. Who knows? Maybe hearing it from someone on their side will convince others to abandon the ship as well.

But, while reading the comments, now I’m conflicted.

I’m happy because this person understands their ex-movement is toxic as hell, and that he did address the rape threats and smear campaigns and hypocrisy for what it was.

However, I’m still considering it baby steps and I can only hope that this person will grow from this and maybe look into the arguments anti-Gators make, as well as the people behind the attacks. Who knows? Maybe some good ideologies will rub off on him.

And thanks to all the people chiming in about their own experiences with their life events like this. It really helps bring it into perspective for someone who hasn’t experienced it (like me. : P)!

P.S. Viceroy Bubbles von Salamancer gets so many cookies for that amazing username reference. (It’s Homestuck, in case anyone was wondering).

Jon H
6 years ago

PoM wrote: “Then why wasn’t this posted to Reddit a week ago when Roosh started up his GG website?”

Probably because this person was responding on a thread someone else started yesterday. This person doesn’t actually say Jack Thompson was the final straw, or that they only recently left GG. They may have included Thompson as just the latest example of GG hypocrisy.

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