Woman slams sexist shirt; Twitter douchebags tell her to kill herself. Worst offender? A contributor to A Voice for Men

The first time I walked into a physics class, I realized I was one of two women, and most of the men were a year younger than me (I was a biology student taking physics for a well-rounded science background–most of the guys were potential physics majors). My first thought was, “Oh, God. I can’t let these guys do better than me.” Because I felt like it was up to me and the other women alone to hold up the honor of women in physics.

It was stressful, and even though I kicked ass in that class, I still am glad I didn’t have to fight that my whole way through. I don’t blame any women who decide that much as they might like the field, they don’t always want to be The Only One.

And you know? I didn’t experience anything I’d call misogyny in that class–all the guys were nice, and the teacher called Emmy Noether his favorite physicist on the first day. Imagine what it would be like with a different mix of people. Or worse–when my dad was in college, the physics building didn’t even have women’s restrooms.

i would actually be really interested in an ethnographic study of women in all walks of life to find out if they ever wanted to be a scientist, and if so what happened to that, if not why not. i don’t think one has been done, and i’m not in a position to do that atm but really want to see what results would come up. the closest i’ve seen is one where women who stared out in stem programs and quit were asked why they quit (spoiler alert: it was the misogyny).

Even if you wanted to go by anecdotal data, who are you going to listen to? The woman who says “I feel unwelcome in this field,” or the dude that says “nah, nah, women are so welcome in this field!”

Ghostiger’s little “everyone wanted to be friends with the few women in the field” tickles me. I’m guessing the women didn’t see the constant attention as “wanting to be friends.”

Blockquote mammoth… o/

In Delusions of Gender, Cordelia Fine writes about a study conducted on college math students. Female students performed less well on a math test when they were asked to write down their name and gender on the test paper than females students who were just asked to write down their names. Even if a woman doesn’t think “girls can’t do math” on a conscious level, the stereotype seeps in.

When I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut. Or at least an astronomer. But I grew up thinking I was better at English than math and science. It wasn’t until I was about 20 years old that I looked back at my academic performance over the years and realized the opposite is true. I’m actually far better at science than I am at English. I didn’t realize I was good at science until I took a biology class with my friend who was majoring in the subject and I outperformed her without even studying very hard. When I was 22, my parents divorced and sold the house. While I was cleaning out my bedroom I found a certificate that said I had come in second in a math competition in 7th grade. I don’t even remember this happening. I’ve searched my brain and still can’t remember. I often regret not majoring in physics or biology. By the time I had my epiphany I was a junior and had completed too much of my psych major to turn back. Changing majors would have required an extra year of school that I couldn’t afford.

I grew up in a progressive city with progressive parents who encouraged both my scientific and artistic interests. Nobody ever told me that girls can’t grow up to be scientists. Still, the attitude seeped in.

the environment and context of an event are not part of that event’s properties

Have to disagree with you, right there, ghostiger. If I jump on you, and start pushing on your chest hard enough to move your sternum (and possibly break ribs) it’s a very bad thing. Unless, of course, your heart has stopped beating and I’m doing CPR. See how context works, there? In the first scenario, I’d rightfully be charged with assault. In the second, I’m trying to save your life.

Also I am here the only one that does not have an aggressive tone. It is a simple question of maturity and being able to discuss sensitive subjects without hating (at least you seemed to try to contain yours and actually talk).

http://i.imgur.com/wUwIteR.gif

Shut up, Ghostiger.

This comment section seems very uninviting, I hope you’ll see the irony in that.

Troll is shocked (shocked I tell you!) to find that people (women, even) disagree with him. Gee, I wonder how often he’s dictated reality to women in real life; here’s a hint buddy, they gave up listening and were just nodding politely so you’d finish blathering and go away.

Thanks for your story, but it doesn’t have any mention of anyone being rude or uninviting to you, it is a matter of self-discovery (I’ve also had self-discovery issues). Also, I don’t know how long ago was your story, but in my case, when I entered college 5 years ago, we were 50 men in the classroom and not a single woman, bigoted students used to verbally harass pretty girls (most of us hated them and blame them for the lack of women scientists). But now, after 5 years that has changed, one third of students are women and assholes keep their mouths shut. Progress has been made and those girls that decided to enter a STEM are what helped to fight the sexism of a few: sheer numbers. The rest of us have been nice to girls all our lives and don’t like to be judged by the crimes of others.

I was actually encouraging women to get in STEM, they seem to be better students. But what do I know? I am just a terrible person for being a man and having a different opinion.

First of all, my example of the shirt does apply because past history and probability of that shirt being worn by women doesn’t change the fact that it is an equivalent scenario: the environment and context of an event are not part of that event’s properties (good or bad is an intensive property, as it does not depend on the size of the system: how many women wear a shirt depicting scantly clad men). Example: A white man attacking a black man is as wrong as a black man attacking a white man, regardless of the years black people spent oppressed or how likely both are. Pure analytic reasoning.

The environment and the context are important. When discussing a social phenomenon (women and our allies being offended by a shirt depicting women in a sexualized way) the culture that phenomenon takes place in is important. We are not discussing a physics problem. We are discussing sexism. You clearly do not know the first thing about sociology, psychology or history. Being good at the “hard” sciences does not confer expertise in unrelated fields on you. When you analyze whether or not a shirt is sexist or contributes to the culture of sexism, you must analyze the context the shirt is worn in. You’re a bit out of your depth here and you don’t even seem to realize it because you have a massive ego.

do not act as if I have the intellectual superiority here, I thought I was the only one in STEM simply because everyone here speaks based on stereotypes about STEM and men in general, actually perpetuating the myth STEM seem being uninviting by how they speak about it (girls will hear that and avoid the field without ever hearing insider’s opinions), you are the first one to actually mention that you also have experience in the field.

It appears that you haven’t read the whole thread. Lots of women commenting here have spoken of their experiences in STEM already. But you couldn’t resist marching in here and pretending you know better than everyone else could you?

By the way, you claiming that sexism in STEM is a myth. Do you have any actual evidence of this? Anything other than your own personal observations? You see, men often don’t notice misogyny because you don’t experience it. If your mighty STEM brain knew the first thing about how the human brain works, you’d realize that our perceptions are not unbiased and they don’t always reflect objective reality. This is why a single anecdote is not data. Your claim that because you don’t see sexism at your university that means it doesn’t exist doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny at all.

when I entered college 5 years ago, we were 50 men in the classroom and not a single woman, bigoted students used to verbally harass pretty girls (most of us hated them and blame them for the lack of women scientists). But now, after 5 years that has changed

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

My point is that people can’t blame their life choices on anyone else.

And you are also claiming that other people have no influence on thise choices, that witnessing the sexism meted out on other women would not discourage a woman from subjecting herself to that sexism. Damn, you’re such a fool, it’s embarrassing.

Presumably, you think that death and rape threats, doxxing and harrassment, aren’t currently discouraging women from going into Games Design, right? I mean, hey, why would that make any girl or woman decide to that her love of programming wasn’t worth the sacrifice?

Empathy? You fail at it.

I am just a terrible person for being a man and having a different opinion.

Ah, poppet, are you talking to those straw feminists in your head again?