This graphic by somewhat_brave on Reddit pretty much nails it. (Click here to see a larger version.) When #GamerGaters talk about “ethics” in journalism, this is pretty much code for “journalists shouldn’t be allowed to say anything critical of us!”
And in case you missed the all-Cat version of the manifesto, here it is again:
It’s not. But saying you don’t agree and harassing and death threats and the sheer amount of vitriol and violence that’s been directed at the critics is disgusting and not even close to the same thing. That’s why it’s important to be able to disagree about the actual subject with information and citations. If you can’t support your argument, if literally all you say is “NO IT’S WRONG I DON’T BELIEVE THAT” that’s not critique. That’s just a two-year-old sticking their fingers in their ears and saying “lalalalalalalalalalala” louder and louder until the person stops talking. It’s literally a temper tantrum, only way more terrifying because it’s fucking anonymous adults who are saying far worse things than “lalalalala”.
Generally, if there’s an opinion on a piece of media you enjoy that is against your views on it, you can in fact just ignore that opinion. I like lots of problematic things. Many people hate them for legitimate reasons. I’m okay with them hating those things. Why do you think it should bother me that someone is critiquing something I like and portraying it in a negative fashion? It’s not like they’re critiquing me, they aren’t saying I’m terrible, they’re just pointing out parts of this thing I like that might be problematic. Honest, true question, WHO THE FUCK CARES IF OTHER PEOPLE DON’T LIKE THE SAME THINGS YOU DO???
Coming out from a looong period of lurking.
Anyway, orangedesperado, I’d seen that linked trumped out by a friend of mine from High School that considers himself a feminist gg supporter. It seems to me that the point is being seized upon by many in the movement as a way to cover their asses and go “NO U” at feminist critics.
You can critique criticism. Harassment, death threats and mischaracterization are not critique.
Furthermore, the defense of the status quo is an ideological position. It is no wonder GG is attracting so many reactionaries, authoritarians and right-wing ideologues. If #Gaters want to rid the gaming press of all ideology they’ve got to take a long, hard look at themselves.
Pressfart is one of the loudest gaters on twitter, its VERY unlikely that TB didn’t know about fart being involved before throwing himself into the sludge
A necessary component of acknowledging that women are people is to read or listen to their opinion on a matter without responding with death threats.
proxieme:
I’m now picturing deadly flying sheep.
This is a good thing.
acrannymint:
My thought was “Says you.”
Leum:
Answering purely for myself, where I am now, it’s about moving toward being gender critical rather than accepting talk that seems to posit gender as immutable and biological sex a construct, with all that follows from the latter idea. It’s about preferring the Nordic model regarding sex work than straight out decriminalisation, and casting a very critical eye over things like porn. Basically it’s me moving away from liberal feminism or sex-pos feminism.
I think SittieKitty said it best. The grown-up response to a critique you disagree with is “Here’s why I disagree with you, here’s my take.”
Not spending hours poring over the critique trying to find a tiny error which you can use as justification to dismiss the entirety of the body of work. Not yelling that a person is implicitly endorsing censorship of works she personally doesn’t like if she asks that content creators consider the messages they send with their work. Not distorting a commentary about sexism into a supposed condemnation of anybody who likes anything with sexism in it, ever (no matter HOW MANY TIMES she has to repeat that disclaimer about being able to like+enjoy something while still criticising aspects of it!). Not campaigning to have her professional career ruined or try to “expose” her as a Fake SJW because [made-up bullshit here – the “she’s really a racist because her skin tone changed from one vid to the next and that’s proof she bleaches her skin!” was a particularly egregious example]. And certainly, certainly not siccing the snarling trollbeasts of the internet onto her by painting her as an anti-gaming villain that must be fought, oh also endsjustifiesthemeans.
I think it’s stupidly ironic that the same people saying that people should just not play games they don’t like and STFU are the same ones baying so loudly about a series of videos they just could have not watched.
@ Cassandra- ey, can you not? I had a Randroid phase. It was when I was fifteen. I got over it. I am still freaking sheepish about it. That doesn’t mean I’m not fit to talk politics.
Also- yo, autistic commenter here. *handwaves*
Have you ever watched people critique movies? Person A says this movie has a really good plot, the action is fast paced and I really enjoyed it. The camera work was outstanding. Person B says I’d agree that it’s fast paced and I did enjoy it, but not as much as you. The plot is really just a rehash of xxxx in my view. I think it could have been a lot better if the director had brought out xxxx actor’s talents for humour/snark/subtlety to her character. The art direction was pretty good. Discussion ensues with a bit of back and forth. Eventually Person A says I rate it 4 out of 5. Person B says not me, I couldn’t give it more than 3.
Two parallel critiques that inform each other. Neither attacks or demeans the other’s point of view. Both arrive at different valuations of the work for different reasons. That’s how differing critiques work at the non-essay, non-academic level.
What I find interesting this question, and I don’t mean to attack you in any way, Leum, is that it presumes that everyone can define terms their own way and still have a coherent conversation about it.
“Radical feminist” is an actual term, with a specific definition, so that academics can talk about different types of feminism and other isms without getting bogged down every time. Its meaning has been agreed upon for practical purposes.
So, when a group decides, no, I think it means something else, and I’m going to use it that way in conversation, and people who are confused by my new usage are wrong and are insulting me — I gotta say, it frustrates the hell out of me.
All those Women Against Feminism people who are against what they think is feminism frustrate me because what they’re defining as feminism is just something else. And the more I read about it, the more I’m coming to realize is that the something else is some Tumblr’s definition of feminism, and it’s just wrong.
We had a necrotroll recently who graciously offered to re-define feminism in such a way that required a new definition of “equality”. (I think it was something about feminism means only women are equal, to which I can only say — “equal” requires at least 2 things. Women alone can’t be equal. What would they be equal TO?)
Anyway. For what it’s worth, here’s a short list of definitions of different feminisms: http://www.uah.edu/woolf/feminism_kinds.htm
@ kittehserf- “gender critical” meaning what exactly? Like. I’ve heard that phrase used to mean everything from “I think gender in general is bs” to “let’s dox trans women!”
As a nonbinary-leaning trans man, I personally think both gender and sex are social constructs. The one is a set of roles and conventions; the other is a convenient sorting mechanism. Neither are as black and white as society would like us to believe. It’s in everyone’s best interest to loosen the restrictions we’ve got, and part of that means taking people’s gender identities seriously, even when they’re silly.
I’m automatically suspicious of people who self-identify as radical feminists- and it’s not necessarily because of any defect in radical feminist ideology. It’s because a lot of the self-identified radical feminists I’ve met- especially the ones who call themselves “gender-critical”- are grotesquely transphobic. Like, MRA-level transphobic.
Frankly, I feel unsafe around people who use that particular phrase, and I really don’t want to feel unsafe at whtm.
@sciencefair200, um, what are you after? Please don’t ever criticize me for having once been a Randroid? Please don’t use a technically correct term to describe yourself because it has bad connotations for me? I don’t think I’ve seen you here before, so my first introduction to you is you laying down rules about how we interact with you and each other. I’m not okay with that.
Can you provide examples of someone providing a counterpoint that actually analyzes videogames to show that there isn’t sexism in them? Every “critique” I’ve ever seen from the pro gg side involves allegations that Sarkeesian is a liar, fraud and thief. Or evil SJWs want to censor games. Or Depression Quest isn’t a real game and Zoe Quinn is a whore. That’s not a critique. That’s name calling.
Oh look, a not gamergaters argument. I haven’t seen that in a few hours! That’s only because I’ve been away from my computer though.
Dissent from what? The notion that harassment is bad? The fact that gamergate was started as a misogynistic harassment campaign? Dissent from the notion that if you use the label, you’re part of the problem. Anyone dissenting from that is in bad faith.
If you have to follow “women are people” with a “but” and “however” is a but, you’ve gone wrong.
No you don’t have to agree with Anita Sarkeesian about everything. But you didn’t actually ask questions, provide any counterpoints or indicate what it is you’re actually skeptical of.
Essentially, your entire comment was a longer version of #notallgamergaters. If you actually want to have a discussion, please make a comment with more substance and specifics next time.
That’s not what she was saying. She was saying it is hypocritical to dismiss young women who identify as radical feminists for being extremist when you, yourself had a youthful Randroid phase.
A TERF is a specific label that doesn’t describe all radical feminists. I’m uncomfortable with you telling long time regulars they can’t use their own preferred labels and insinuating they’re transphobic.
Upon further reflection I’m realizing I’ve been a little bit of a jackass. It’s been a long weekend. Sorry, everyone.
TERF is a slur used against women to silence them. It works extremely well as a replacement for the previously popular man hater.
Yah, I have to agree that “radical feminism” is not identical to “TERF.” Some formulations of radical feminism are gender-essentialist, and it’s a small step from gender essentialism to transphobia. However, it’s completely wrong to claim that ALL radical feminist are gender-essentialist, or that gender essentialism is inherent in radical feminism and cannot be separated. That’s just an incorrect claim.
I looked at that page and I doubt it would be helpful for someone looking for a primer. Here’s another, longer, I think more useful examination:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1747-9991.2007.00091.x/pdf
It specifically references feminist legal theory, but the connection to more general feminist theory is there.
sciencefair, yeah, what Unimaginative and WWTH and thebewilderness said. But apology accepted.
You can call me a “Gaslightingrapistmurdererdoxxermaleentitlementshitbagwhethercisortrans exclusionary radical feminist.” Or wishy-washy keyboard radical feminist, in that I don’t actually do any activism.
🙂
Just saying that I’ve never seen anybody here act transphobic (quite the opposite – a good number of David’s posts name and shame transphobes), and if I did I’d call it the fuck out, because transphobia sickens me just as much as any other kind of bigotry.
Ask and ye shall receive.
At least they’re deadly in normal gameplay.
Today in “you’re being a woman wrong.” http://jezebel.com/cancer-survivor-still-hassled-about-not-breastfeeding-1647774458
This kind of thing is why feminists don’t really appreciate mansplainations about how to feminist correctly. We’re constantly told we don’t feminist/woman/mother properly in a way that does not happen to men. It’s misogyny.
vaiyt, perfect! I love it! XD
M. the Social Justice Ranger – thank you, because a few of us have had that accusation thrown at us over the years.
Trans exclusionary radical feminism refers primarily to the attitude and political action of some radical feminists towards trans women. The sort of people who slur feminists as man haters almost always agree with them wrt trans women.