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#gamergate a woman is always to blame antifeminism crackpottery doubling down drama kings elliot rodger entitled babies evil women grandiosity imaginary backwards land irony alert lying liars misogyny MRA none dare call it conspiracy playing the victim PUAhate sarkeesian! that's completely wrong threats

A Voice for Men offers proof that it was a feminist who threatened Anita Sarkeesian. Minus the proof.

Snidely Whiplash, actual cartoon villain
Snidely Whiplash, actual cartoon villain

“Andy Bob” of A Voice for Men has decided that the recent threats against Anita Sarkeesian are fake because … they’re too melodramatic.

In a rather remarkable bit of logicking titled “Anonymous feminist provides Anita Sarkeesian with a potential new source of revenue,” Andy Bob quotes this line from the threat email:

“Feminists have ruined my life and I will have my revenge, for my sake and the sake of all the others they’ve wronged.”

And adds:

The only thing missing is the swish of “his” cape as he exits, stage left, with his “semi-automatic rifle, multiple pistols, and a collection of pipe bombs” cunningly concealed beneath “his” jauntily angled fedora.

Huh. You may recall that the most famous person to publicly declare that “feminists have ruined my life”– that is, Marc Lepine — followed that declaration with a shooting spree that left 14 women dead.

You may also remember a certain fellow named Elliot Rodger, who announced his shooting spree this spring with a video in which he, for all intents and purposes, did his best impersonation of a comic book supervillain, complete with evil laughs. Railing against the “girls” who committed the horrible injustice of not dating him, he declared in his final video that

I will punish all of you for it. (laughs)

On the day of retribution I am going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB… and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut I see inside there. …

I will take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you.

You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one. The true alpha male. (laughs)

The fact is that mass killers often have grandiose visions of themselves as avenging angels/devils, and see the world in stark black and white terms.

I have no idea if the latest threats against Sarkeesian are “real,” or if they’re the work of some sadistic asshole trying to terrorize her into silence with words, or whether they were written by her cat, but the fact that these words are melodramatic is hardly proof that they weren’t meant sincerely.

The “if it’s melodramatic it’s fake” argument is also a highly, well, ironic one to make in an online publication that’s home to some of the most melodramatic writing this side of a #GamerGate manifesto.

Here, for example, is John Hembling, then the managing editor of AVFM, writing about the efforts of feminists to get Facebook to take down gender-based hate speech (whether directed at women or men):

They are not simply adherents of an ideology of hatred and violence, wrapping itself in the increasingly transparent veneer of false and pious humanism. … They are fascists, and if you support their cause, that of censorship, you may be a fascist as well.

And here is an actual sentence from an AVFM post by August Løvenskiolds:

Cunt-power is cunning but every now and then, it peeks through the veil to expose a fetid maw of endless hunger and hatred.

So, yeah, Men’s Rights activists in general, and AVFMers in particular, are not exactly strangers to melodrama.

But Andy Bob evidently never reads the publication he is writing for, as he goes on to, er, argue:

There is no doubt whatsoever that this email was written by a feminist posing as an MHRA. The entirely fictitious character, who is supposed to have written it, conforms so closely to the feminist mischaracterization of MHRAs as dangerously violent psychopaths who dream of brutally silencing women that it could only have been written by someone whose goal was to maintain and embellish this outrageously slanderous threat narrative.

Yeah, it’s not as if MRAs and #GamerGaters ever present themselves in a menacing manner.

The character created as the author of the email is an artful pastiche of those mythical MHRAs, Elliot Rodger and Marc Lépine, neither of whom had any connection with known MHR organizations, despite fraudulent feminist claims to the contrary. …

The feminist author promises to “write my manifesto in her spilled blood” in order to raise the spectre of Rodger, who wrote a lengthy manifesto that primarily detailed his inability to get laid and revealed that he was the kind of sad and crazy pussy-beggar who would probably have been persona non grata in the MHRM had he ever attempted to gain entry—which he never did.

Given that Lepine lived and died long before there even was an Men’s Rights movement, it seems a bit weird to brag that he wasn’t a member of any “known MHR organizations.”

And while Elliot Rodger didn’t, as far as I know, identify as a Men’s Rights activist, he was a reader of and a commenter on PUAhate, a website connected to regular A Voice for Men contributor Jalon Cain (aka “Aaron Sleazy”), who volunteered as a moderator on the site and promoted it on his own site. Both Lepine and Rodger shared many of the beliefs of the current Men’s Rights movement.

Even more to the point, there’s no logic to Andy Bob’s argument. The fact that neither Lepine nor Rodger were card-carrying MRAs doesn’t prove that the author of the latest threats isn’t an MRA. Nor does it prove that the writer of the threats is a feminist. These are logic fails as big as Paul Elam’s ego.

The “MHRM produces crazed murderers who target women” threat narrative has been so closely observed throughout the text of the email that it could only have been written by someone who assisted in its construction. Two of the reasons why feminists posing as MHRAs are so easy to detect are the style of language they employ and the fact that their purported representation of MHRAs has the unmistakable tone of caricature that frequently devolves into the realm of pantomime.

Well, aside from the fact that the writer actually used a lot of specific phrases that are used often, and in one case almost exclusively, by MRAs.

“Anita Sarkeesian is everything wrong with the feminist woman, and she is going to die screaming like the craven little whore that she is if you let her come to USU.”

Really? And her little dog too?

This statement sounds more like it came from Snow White’s wicked stepmother as she raises a Sarkeesianesque eyebrow in envious rage than a real-life psycho.

Or from Elliot Rodger — who gleefully announced that “I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut” he saw, before attempting to do just that.

There isn’t the slightest hint of articulated performance in the glib and terrifying words of genuinely deranged psychopaths like Elliot Rodger and Marc Lépine.

Apparently Andy Bob never watched Elliot Rodger’s extravagantly melodramatic final video.

The only question that remains is: Who has a history of making death threats via emails to venues hosting talks on potentially contentious issues and has a vested interest in publicly demonizing the MHRM by maintaining a false threat narrative through attempted character assassination and misrepresenting everything we stand for?

Could it be …. Satan?

Well, no. He means AVFM’s version of Satan: Feminists — as the title of his post proclaims even more categorically.

Of course, A Voice for Men has never offered proof that any of the alleged threats made against its conference came from feminists. Or that these threats even existed. Indeed, even while AVFM was raising literally tens of thousands of dollars for “security,” the site’s lawyers were accusing the Doubletree Hilton hotel of faking the threats for money. Indeed, in the comments on AVFM, Andy Bob himself sneered at the Doubletree employee that Elam suggested might have faked the threats. But now Andy Bob has conveniently changed his mind and is presenting the alleged threats against AVFM as real. The irony meter level here is over 9000.

Several of the commenters to Andy Bob’s post go on to accuse … me of writing the threats.

 Bryan Scandrett Andybob • 18 hours ago  Maybe I'm stuck in some MRA group think vortex here but a brief scan of that article flags Futrelle as a person of interest as author of the threat. Looks a lot like someone over working a frame up, trying to lead the law to the "crims" he wants punished.  "I went through the email – the full text of which I found in this Pastebin – cutting and pasting some of its more memorable phrases into Google to see just where – if anywhere – these phrases showed up online. And I found that quite a few of them are phrases that are used almost nowhere else but in the misogynistic subcultures I write about on this blog – specifically, in the Men’s Rights and “Game” subcultures. This is someone, like Elliot Rodger before him, who has been reading if not actively participating in these subcultures"  Google misandrist harpies and mostly you get Anita and David. In 50+ yrs of this shit I don't recall ever seeing those two words put together.Huh.

 Paul Bryan Scandrett • 12 hours ago  They should definitely examine his search history to see *when* he did those searches.  Is examining the email in such detail the internet equivalent of returning to the scene of the crime?Yes, that’s right. He’s claiming that the fact that I analyzed the language of the threat means that I wrote it. And posts this as a comment to an article in which Andy Bob … analyzes the language of the threat.

Andy Bob, for his part, is happy to add to all the insinuations:

I have to admit that this thought crossed my mind. All of the lies about Elliot Rodger being a MHRA link back to David Futrelle as the original source.

Huh. Except that I never said he was an MRA, and in face went out of my way in my writings and media appearances to point out that he wasn’t an MRA — just someone who shared a great number of beliefs with MRAs.

If he is heavily invested enough in publicly demonizing the MHRM to fabricate this kind of obvious fraud (E.R. being a MHRA), it isn’t that much of a stretch for him to go one step further and actually fabricate a fake E.R. clone sending threatening emails to maximize his investment.

The only fraud being perpetuated here is by you, dude. Well, you and the Honey Badgers.

He stops just short of accusing me of literally writing  the threatening email.

Then, I wondered why he would take the risk of exposing his act of terrorism by writing what is, essentially, an account of how he went about doing it. Futrelle is too much of a coward, and not quite stupid enough, to be so obvious about committing such a serious crime.

But then, based on nothing more than his own “feels,” he goes on to accuse me of trying to encourage others to write similar threats:

My guess is that he knows the email is a fraud, thinks it is wonderful, and hopes to encourage others to commit similar frauds by offering instructions on how to accomplish them. After all, who knows better than he just how many loony feminists have access to keyboards? …

Futrelle’s post indicates that he is playing a very dangerous game in which he is dancing closer to the abyss of disrepute than ever before.

Yes, the guy who just wrote a post analyzing the language of the threat is accusing me of “playing a dangerous game” by … analyzing the language of the threat.

It’s only a matter of time before he missteps, and falls in, hopefully taking the perennially smirking, and equally appalling, Sarkeesian with him.

Dream on, dude. I’m not going away. She’s not going away. You’re utterly transparent in your insinuations. You have neither logic nor evidence on your side. All your accusations are nothing but ideologically driven fantasies.

But then again, that’s pretty much all the Men’s Rights movement is.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Was the layout designed by whoever designed MySpace? Because it’s almost as annoying. Although, to be fair, you can’t blame the site’s designers for the asinine things some of the users try to pass of as super awesome progressive political theory.

Most of the time I end up wanting to tell Tumblr to go to its room and think about what it’s just done, tbh.

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

Thanks for the information, all. I appreciate it.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: cassandrakitty

Oh god the interface is horrible. This is why I don’t post anything of substance JUST to tumblr, but to LJ as well, so I can actually FIND it. (Okay, I admittedly do post some stuff just to tumblr, but that’s because our father as far as I know isn’t tracking it like he is our LJ.)

I’m way more interested in teaching or entertaining than I am in a lot of what tumblr offers. I’m still amazed that I haven’t been trolled yet, considering I’m doing the crime of existing openly weird on the Internet.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I especially hate the way some tumblrs aren’t set up to have pages, it’s all just one giant endless page that you have to scroll down, so if someone posts a lot and you want to find something they posted a while back, well, good luck with that.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

I am sure Eron Gjoni will be very sad if any of the people he has been inciting for the past two months actually do assault Zoe.

I could be way off about this but I find that when I go back to edit a sentence sometimes I add a period at the end when it does not need one because I deleted the words but not the period and the screen is small and I do not see it and there it is!!! Ta Da! The two dot ellipsis.
Whadaya think?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: cassandrakitty

OH GOD I HATE THE ENDLESS SCROLL. My computer is nine years old, people, why would you strain its poor capabilities with an endless waterfall of resource-devouring gifs or auto-playing music?

I specifically have that option turned off on mine to keep that from happening.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I hate auto-play music so much. Especially if it’s late and I’ve forgotten to mute my speakers, because I wasn’t intending to do anything involving sound. I’d really rather not make my neighbors hate me, you know?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I hate auto-play music because it takes me a bit to figure out whether it’s actually the website or my computer being a weirdo and picking up police radio again.

(Yes, that happens to me sometimes. It is UNSETTLING.)

Oh, as a head’s up, I know some of the Mammoths like my comics, so my newest little zine, The Transphobe Blues is up for free reading online and for sale on my Etsy! It is 2009, and something bad has just happened. There’s only one thing to do: watch Wild Zero, the greatest zombie/UFO/rock and roll/transgender romance movie ever to come out of Japan! But will that be enough to shift the transphobe blues?

The online reading also has a transcript, for those Mammoths who might be using screen-readers. Enjoy!

vaiyt
6 years ago

What irritates me is Tumblr’s built-in tagging and search features. They’re worse than useless. Some tumblrs I follow (like medievalpoc) have taken to building their own post archives with custom links.

However, just like Twitter is terrible for discussion but indispensable for communication, Tumblr stole a lot of thunder from fandom blogs and blogging communities. If you want to be in the latest discussions, you gotta go there.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

I really don’t care if any trans* people use ‘die, cis scum’. The number of cis people in the world who have been murdered by trans* people _for being cis_ is probably a null set. IMHO, anyone who claims to be sincerely threatened by the phrase has a perspective deficit.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

Wut? As long as they aren’t killed for being “cis” those dead women don’t count?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: vaiyt

Uuuugh, I KNOW. I mean, LJ has plenty of things wrong with it, but at least I can easily find everything I post, thanks to my tag system! To make things even more obnoxious, once you typo a tag, tumblr will ALWAYS REMEMBER IT and try to autofill it for you. It never forgets.

Also, I like medievalpoc too!

I’m kinda glad that fandom really isn’t my thing. I’m able to fulfill all my fandom needs by following, like, one or two semi-active tumblrs devoted to my less-known ship, and that completely fills my needs by giving me art of cute athlete girlfriends maybe a few times a week.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

A phrase can not be a serious threat and still be both an obnoxious thing to say and politically inadvisable. And Tumblr is far too fond of both fantasizing about murdering people and suggestions that people kill themselves, both of which are thrown around with gleeful abandon.

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

I really don’t care if any trans* people use ‘die, cis scum’. The number of cis people in the world who have been murdered by trans* people _for being cis_ is probably a null set. IMHO, anyone who claims to be sincerely threatened by the phrase has a perspective deficit.

NO. This shit is aimed at women. This is rape and murder threats issued to lesbians by trans women. There are trans women in prison for rape and murder right now.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yes, because as a women I have never feared for my life or my physical or mental integrity at the hands of someone else, usually male. So I should be totes cool with getting “die cis scum” comments too?

Fan-diddly-tastic.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

I really don’t care if any trans* people use ‘die, cis scum’.

That’s nice. It’s usually not pointed at men, but thanks ever so much for your perspective.

pecunium
6 years ago

people _for being cis_ is probably a null set. IMHO, anyone who claims to be sincerely threatened by the phrase has a perspective deficit.

Because othering language is such a good idea?

Because active hostility is such a good way to improve the opinion of others? Because blanket statements of violent intent are the sort of thing you want trans people known for?

Die “x’ scum is vile. It doesn’t matter who the targets are. Die racist scum is structurally the same. That you think your group deserves some special place in the rhetorical universe because your oppression is special is bullshit.

That’s what every group who demands to be allowed to use “verbal” violence asserts.

Sorry, you’re not that special.

strivingally
6 years ago

I completely disagree with Robert but I think what he was trying to say was something similar to what Aussie feminist writer Clementine Ford was saying about feminist being scared to be called man-haters – i.e. that the marginalised group expressing hate towards the group with power isn’t really a threat and shouldn’t be treated the same as the reverse.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

You know, commenters have at various times tried aiming that sort of language at the misogynistic shitheads who we discuss here, and every single time the group has shut it down (and often David deletes the comments in question). Shitty behavior and threatening language that we normally wouldn’t tolerate doesn’t suddenly become OK just because it’s a trans person doing it.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Women, particularly lesbians, are the group with power in our society?

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Do we accept people here saying MRAs should die? No, we do not.

Why is it then okay to have a group saying the vast majority of people on the planet should die?

Oh, and as I said, this is violent language aimed at women. It’s often very specifically aimed at lesbians, the women who are not interested in fucking anyone with a penis, thank you. That’s not punching up. That’s homophobia and misogyny. Nothing new there, and it’s no more acceptable in this packaging than any other.

pecunium
6 years ago

strivingally: Nope, I see where Clementine Ford was coming from, and while the level of threat isn’t existential, it’s still not acceptable for anyone here to make what are, at root, genocidal comments.

And it’s a core tenet of the things we’ve seen. The rhetorical environment of the MRA/PUA/MGTOWs is one which fosters a dehumanising of women.

If we, as decent human beings, are going to argue for treating everyone as people, full stop, then we can’t accept that some are more equal than others, and allow them to engage in violent rhetoric any more than we allow misogynists to do it.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

Your argument depends on viewing lesbians as the group with power, strivingally.

strivingally
6 years ago

Sorry, it’s from a Tumblr. 😉

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Put it bluntly: this is people biologically male, raised male, people with male entitlement, attacking women for not wanting to fuck them, even for daring to want their own spaces and talk about their own concerns, things like reproductive rights and actual physical issues of menstruation and pregnancy and so on, and the shit that goes with it.

It’s straight out of the MRA handbook, as pecunium said.

Take note: I do NOT think all or a majority of trans women, let alone all trans people, indulge in this shit. It’s a small set of extremists. But that doesn’t make shrugging off their violent rhetoric or threats any more acceptable.

strivingally
6 years ago

Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting that *I* think it’s okay to make pronouncements about how people should die. Just that I thought Robert might’ve been poorly articulating a different point.

And yes, for the record, it’s not okay to say anybody should die, or kill themselves. I think I proved that’s my position when I smacked Daeran down as soon as he said something similar about GamerGaters in the other thread. 😛

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

In fact, didn’t a bunch of us jump on Daeren for suggesting that he thought violence against gamergaters would be a good idea just the other day? If you think this is different, ask yourself why.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Yes, you’ve been quite the scold lately. Someone must have forgotten your MOD tag.

Chevrolet
Chevrolet
6 years ago

I only made it 4 minutes into that Jordan Owen video because it was just him reading from a piece of paper without even looking up, but what I learned was that back in the good old days when men were men, if someone fired a gun at you while you were on stage, what a cool guy would do is call them a coward (for missing?) and go on with his talk. No one in the audience would bat an eye or try to stop the shooter. They would be totally ok to let him sit back down and enjoy the rest of the show. Jordan Owen can respect that!

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Sorry, it’s from a Tumblr. 😉

I take it you haven’t seen the person who has “die cis scum” tattooed on zir arm or the tattooist who’s so PROUD of zir work.

You can wink at this. I’m a woman. I can’t.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Perhaps striving to be a bit less mansplainy might be a good idea.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

That was not directed to Cassandra.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Yeah I’m going to distance myself from a lot of the comments in this thread, but absolutely people should not be saying anyone group should die, not here, not okay.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Even if I despise the group whose imminent demise is being suggested, nope, still not OK, and as has previously being mentioned this community has never been OK with people making “X should die” comments, even when X is a person/group of people who have been proven to be assholes by choice.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Godfuckingdammit I am not getting into this discussion again about fucking trans goddamn lesbians.

Also, ‘cis scum’ as I heard it was mostly sent to fucking cis dudes, not fucking lesbians. Because it’s cis dudes often THREATENING THE GODDAMN VIOLENCE.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’ve mostly seen it aimed at cis women. Even if it was being aimed at just dudes, still not OK.

pecunium
6 years ago

I don’t think he’s waffling at all… pure shitweasel.

strivingally
6 years ago

Sorry KS, the wink was about my previous post and the Clem Ford link. The convo moved a bit in between.

I’mma withdraw a little and think about what I can do differently. I hadn’t meant to come across as mansplainy or condescending, or to suggest I was endorsing views harmful to others, here or in other threads. I’m sorry to anybody I got offside.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

That this conversation has cropped up in a thread where the OP contains this nice little composition:

“Anita Sarkeesian is everything wrong with the feminist woman, and she is going to die screaming like the craven little whore that she is if you let her come to USU.”

is beyond the fucking pale.

pecunium
6 years ago

I think I’m going to heat up the leftover morrocan style stew I made last night, and play some Dragon Age.

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Every example of that phrase I’ve seen has been aimed at lesbians. Not in a reaction to violence or threats – in a reaction to wanting to say who they fuck.

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

pecunium, good idea.

I’m going to pick up some groceries.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I really don’t think that “don’t tell people that they should all die” should be a controversial position for people to take.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I hope we’re not going to have a rehash of the argument from a couple months ago that almost caused a mass flounce 🙁

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

Ok, that went somewhere unexpected. I didn’t mean to start anything bad. Sorry, all

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ Skye

It’s not your fault. Apparently the community wounds from the Thread of Doom haven’t healed yet, no way for you know it would escalate like that.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

Skye, it was not you you said they had no problem with death threats.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

You who, not you you! Ctiminy!

ericscoles
6 years ago

For what it’s worth, MRAs have been self-identifying using that term since the 1990s. You can find old USENET archives that use the term, with people posting on them who are active in the MRA movement to this day.

kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

The keyboard monster is after thebewilderness! D: