Who knew Aesop’s Fables was a pickup bible?
I assume you’re all familiar with Aesop’s story of the fox and the grapes: A fox wants some grapes, but can’t reach them. He walks off in a huff, sniffing that the grapes are probably sour anyway. The moral: “Any fool can despise what he can not get.”
The moral that pickup guru Heartiste draws from the story is a little different. As he sees it, the fox is a super cool alpha male who’s come up with an awesome way to put those slut grapes in their place.
In his latest blog post, Heartiste reports on the phenomenon of the “No Girl” – that is, a woman who turns down your advances before you’ve even said a word by putting up her hand and saying “no.” (Apparently this is a thing.) One of Heartiste’s readers wants to know what he can do to “to salvage and optimize the interaction.”
Heartiste starts off by assuring his readers that the No Girl’s grapes are definitely sour.
The No Girl is usually a 6 or 7 who thinks she’s a 9. Her autonomic rejection is an act put on for the purpose of self-medicating her ever-vigilant ego. Truly beautiful women will rarely do this because 1. they aren’t approached that often by men and 2. they don’t have to prove their worth with SMV striver antics.
Also, No Girls’ elbows are too pointy.
As Heartiste sees it, you need to let these gals know that their grapes are sour – but without sounding too much like the whiny baby that you are. Or, as Heartiste puts it:
[D]isplaying resentment or feeling insulted will redound to the No Girl’s victory. If you want to turn a No Girl into a Good To Go Girl, you’ll need a honed reaction that at once conveys your imperturbability and your cocky disregard for her faggy theatrics.
But fear not, dear readers, for Heartiste has some brilliant retorts you can use to totally show how awesomely alpha you are. Here are a couple of them, which I am not, I repeat not, making up:
“Hey chill out, I was just gonna tell you you have food on your face.”
“Hey chill out, I came over to talk to your friend.”
And the coup de grace:
“No, you don’t use Palmolive. Have you seen your callouses?”
In your face, ladies! YOUR HANDS ARE TOO SOUR!
In the comments, Heartise’s readers offer some of their own brilliant ideas. Again, I am not making any of these up.
“Eww, it looks like you’ve pitted out that blouse really bad.”
“Put your arm down, you’re attracting flies.”
“Raise your hand if you have a yeast infection.”
“Um…I was going to ask if you were one of my sister’s friends. She died last month. Have a nice day.”
“Your hands look like my grandma’s”
“Yeah when I saw no guy around I kinda figured you don’t swallow…you just won me $20.”
Some of them get a little … weird:
“Yeah… I know. I can smell it. You’re not ovulating.”
And threatening:
“10.000 years ago I would be raping you right now. Damn civilization. “
My favorite, though, is this one:
“Hey, whore I play hockey. You know what’s going on so shut up. You should be glad this God’s gift to women even looks you in the eyes.”
Uh, what does hockey have to do with anything?
Can any of you come up with even more brilliant retorts?
::comically extreme double-take::
::point at ‘No Girl’ and stutter a few times. Then, run off, screaming “Troll in the dungeons!”::
::run back in::
“Just thought you ought to know”
::fake faint::
“Can I have your number?”
“Still a no.”
Or the classic talking into your lapel:
“The strange bipedal organism has raised it’s fleshy and dexterous appendage to me. I think it might be some sort of greeting ritual. Please advise… Are you sure, supreme fleet commander? It looks hideous! Well, then…”
Or play it savvy:
:: no girl raises hand for a no.::
::give her no hand a simultaneous “not even” hand::
@2-D Man
This is charming and funny. If you make me laugh, you’re in for another few minutes, at least. So, yeah, this is a GREAT response, especially if you add a cheesy grin to the jazz hands.
*holds up own hand in reply, in classic Vulcan greeting* “Live long and prosper”
I think Heartiste, like Roosh, actually makes a living selling online PUA pooks and soliciting donations from his followers.
IIRC, Heartiste calls it “the Citadel Firm” when he sits writing at home.
I think the best version of this I ever came across was in a PUA text* that recommended pulling a tampon out of your top pocket and offering it to the uninterested party with a triumphant “I guess you must need THIS, since you’re being so BITCHY!”
I still marvel over this. Did the author really do this? And if so, did he walk around with a tampon in his pocket at all times just in case he got shot down; or did he only pop the tampon in there preparatory to going out on the pull? (“Keys, check. Wallet with 2-year-old condom, check. Ridiculous LED accessories, check. What else..? Shoot, almost forgot me tampon.”) I picture armies of his devotees nodding sagedly over this pearl of wisdom. All going down the chemist and stocking up on Tampax to brandish in the faces of the unrighteous, like Van Helsing with a crucifix. The tampon-in-pocket club.
I bet none of ’em would buy tamps for a girlfriend.
*I am addicted to PUA texts. It’s like a window into a strange alternate universe where every single woman has been replaced by that one vending machine that nearly always eats your last 50p, but if you jiggle it _just_ right you can sometimes get an extra packet of Skittles.
I have never held my hand up to a guy, but I have been known to immediately cut them off with “No” or “No thank you” if it’s clear that I’m about to be embroiled in a conversation I am not interesting in having.
I do this because I find that men frequently exploit the social contract* in order to prolong interactions with uninterested or uncomfortable women. I am, most of the time, a very polite person and politeness is something that’s important to me. If you say “Hi, how are you?” to me, my mouth will already be saying “Fine thanks, and you?” before my brain has even decided how I feel about the situation. If you offer me your hand, I will shake it. If you ask me my name, it takes enormous effort of will for me to say “Actually, I’m not comfortable with telling you my name.” Because that’s rude, and I might offend someone. Overcoming the social contract (or what I think of as my reflexive politeness) in order to maintain boundaries is actually really difficult. Men who have a “technique” for picking up women know this and use it to their advantage by making you feel like you’re the rude one if you say “Please go away now.” I’m only just getting the point where I can say to myself “I am comfortable with this stranger thinking I’m rude.”
So sometimes it’s just easier to limit the conversation to:
“Hey, do you come here oft– ?”
“No.”
“Hey chill, I was– “
“No thanks.”
“Jesus, I just wanted to say– “
“No.”
Of course it doesn’t always work (because there’s no foolproof way to actually deter a guy who has decided he’s entitled to your time and attention) and they usually get pissy and flounce off in a huff. But shutting down the conversation before it has even started means I can’t be pressured into sharing personal information or accepting unwanted physical contact out of a sense of politeness. I once had a guy literally tell me “I asked you how you are, “No” is not a valid response to that question.” I thought It was funny that he made it so explicit that he was a) taking advantage of bog-standard politeness and b) bemused at my lack of cooperation.
*h/t to Captain Awkward for that concept.
That is effectively the whole of being a pickup artist right there.
PREACH, Lea!! 😀
Let’s see… Sour Grape lines….
“Yeah, whatever, minger.” (with palms facing out, index fingers extended, thumbs touching to make a “W”, which becomes “M” for “Minger” when wrists are bent forwards).
Attempt to embed an illustrative image follows:
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50494_2684210194_4604_n.jpg
A variation of this is “What-everrr, yer Muvva Works in McDonalds.” (make W,M,W,M as above for emphasis, or just do a sassy fingersnap for each syllable).
Or here’s an even more complex variaton! “Whatever, Minger – Your Mum Works in McDonalds on Minimum Wage.”
Adjust the measure of insult according to complex inverse proportion of target’s self-perceived hotness rating, versus “objective” hotness rating, versus the rating you’re strategically going to tell her she scores in order to neg her.
Your response has _absolutely nothing_ to do with how badly your ego is wounded by even the most reasonable of rejections. It’s all about her, and how much of a stupid bitch she is. Introspection is for manginas or something.
– – –
Best tactic for dealing with these PickUpAssholes is to say “Ooh, sick buuurn”. with as much sarcastic emphasis as possible, and then to ignore. But even that may carry with it some risk of retaliation, I fear.
If they’re already pushing boundaries, and seeking to ‘punish’ women for having any boundaries to begin with, I’m worried that it won’t be long before Fartiste’s advice escalates to “If she still doesn’t want to talk to you, glass the bitch”.
So if you frequently approach hot-looking women and they go full nopetopus on you, you can rest assured they aren’t really 9s but usually 6s or 7s who just *think* they’re 9s.
It’s like the Finnish version of the sour grapes fable, where the fox goes negging some rowanberries, because our climate is too cold for grapes. Only, rowanberries are actually usually really sour and bitter, so the fable makes about as much sense as pick-up artistry.
How the manosphere grading system works:
1/10 = the ugliest of ugly. Don’t apply this to any particular person, because the bros might think you don’t really realize how ugly women can be. Either that, or it sounds too hyperbolic to be serious.
2/10 = classic ugly. Also good as a generic insult, doesn’t sound too hyperbolic because it’s not 1.
3-5/10 = ugly, but not notably so. Rarely used, because what’s the point of grading these people?
6-7/10 = barely acceptable for an alpha in certain circumstances. Therefore, it’s the worst insult you can apply for someone you were trying to pick up.
8/10 = kinda hot, but not very
9/10 = classic hot. This is what you ultimately aspire for.
10/10 = the perfect woman, who might or might not exist somewhere but probably isn’t to be found, so don’t trust your judgement. If you apply this to someone, the bros might find some flaws in her and think you overrate women generally.
I think I’ve cracked it! I’ll just run up to a bunch of women, pull my pants down, and start waving my dick around. And if any of them look disgusted, I’ll scream “It’s too good for you ANYWAY!” and run off laughing.
I’ll be so Alpha…
I have.
It’s actually a very effective technique used by childcare workers on stroppy toddlers.
Lea:
He actually said 10,000 years ago. So back when humans were first learning agriculture. Not that it really changes much. And there’s really no indication that guys were allowed to just walk up and force themselves on women in bars back then.
It’s really scary how often that comes up too. If it’s not the ancient past, it’s some post apocalyptic future. They’re soooo unfortunate to live in a “civilized” time where they can’t just take any woman they want.
I still marvel over this. Did the author really do this? And if so, did he walk around with a tampon in his pocket at all times just in case he got shot down; or did he only pop the tampon in there preparatory to going out on the pull?
Actually, we guys just buy tampons so we can get to go horseback riding or play the cello or all the rest of that stuff you girls do on the commercials ‘cos that looks AWESOME.
Hasn’t worked yet though. Perhaps we need to buy more?
So suppose that someone walked up to me in a bar, and it was so obvious that he was gonna blurt out some stupid pick-up line that I just raised my hand and went “no” (as Aylin, I’ve only done this to sales people, but let’s just roll with this scenario). And then the dude goes “I was just gonna ask if you’re a friend of my sister, who recently died…”. Yeah, I would feel really stupid in that situation, and apologize, because I assume that people don’t just go around making that kind of shit up. So I’d say sorry, I’m really sorry for your loss, but no, I don’t have any friends who have died recently as far as I know.
And then HE WINS, because I BELIEVED HIS LIE and therefore said SORRY…. Or what? Why would that mean “winning”? It’s not hard to make a random stranger believe what you say, for the simple reason that people normally are honest and expect other people to be too, unless they’re in particular circumstances where lies are known to be common. I’d be sceptical if some random dude told me in a bar that he makes so much money and is actually famous within his field etc, because that’s the kind of stuff that people usually exaggerate about, but people don’t normally make up dead family members.
So WHAT’S THE POINT?
Heartiste and Roosh and the rest of the PUA crowd are alphas? Absolutely hilarious. There are certain personality traits that are associated with “alphas” of both sexes. PUAs not only have none of them, they have the polar opposites of those traits. Leadership? Courage? Intelligence? A sense of wit? A lack of crippling insecurity? Vision? Compassion? Respect for fellow humans?
If you wanna find alpha males and alpha females, this is a good place to start.
http://www.dlmark.net/hundred.htm
Actually, we guys just buy tampons so we can get to go horseback riding or play the cello or all the rest of that stuff you girls do on the commercials ‘cos that looks AWESOME.
Hasn’t worked yet though. Perhaps we need to buy more?
Common mistake.
You also have to smile broadly and laugh while tilting your head back and to the side.
It doesn’t work if you don’t do that.
If maniacal smiling and laughing don’t work for you, you may have to also try douche (the scented kind).
(But side effects may then include walking hand-in-hand down a beach during sunset with your mother and/or daughter.)
Were you flipping your hair while doing those things, Phoenician?
TW: Violence against women.
“10,000 I’d be raping you…” !!!
In Detroit, a man recently shot and killed a mother of three because she wouldn’t give him her phone number. Another man slashed a woman’s throat for not talking to him in the vestibule of her apartment building. Fuck you, Heartiste, women STILL fear violence when they try rejecting a man’s advances.
thermonictriode – Am I nuts or would it be kind of handy getting free tampons for rejecting guys? Even if I don’t need it right there and then, it would mean I have some back-ups already in my handbag. I vote for encouraging insecure men to do this when rejected.
The point of the dead sister ruse is that for ten seconds, they were able to pass as a human being. And that’s hilariously awesome!
“10.000 I would be raping you right now. Damn civilization”
“Wait, ten thousand years ago? Wouldn’t you be be a little busy building the fabled city of Uruk back then, being a man and all, working your architectural wonder and delight? With the massive investiture of time that pre-crane construction work is would leave you little time to spend your days raping people WAIT NO COME BACK I WANT TO DISCUSS THE SIGNIFIENCE OF THE BRICK-FIRING TECHNIQUES OF— dammit”
[No Hand Response]
“Marklar Haron, Fellow Prime, how’s your meat suit?”
“No! I came to warn you! I watched CNN and caught Ebola! [Cough]”
“Yeeeesss, I see from your translateral ridge that you harbour great resentment for creepy strangers walking up to you in the bar can I have your number?”
“Oh no! She’s casting Flame Strike! [duck and cover]”
“That’s a hand.”
“That’s a hand!”
“That’s a hand—oh god, the mace”
Actually, this all grading thing really bothers me. In Latvia at least my generation and older (I`m 27) generally don`t use such specific hotness grades. Sure, people talk about each other, call each other hot, sexy, or nothing special, or ugly as hell, but nothing like this supposedly absolute scale. I usually like to say “not my type”, I think it`s the least offensive.
First time I actually heard a Latvian guy seriously grading others hotness out of 10 was something like 3 years ago, and that conversation made me feel really uncomfortable, besides, he graded me too, though I didn`t ask.
Also all this this PUA shit – I haven`t encountered it much, but it makes me mad to read about it, I just can`t stand the idea that there are people out there who teach others to actually manipulate women. Why couldn`t the just give tips on how to overcome shyness or anxiety, and just talk to women?
I had one incident recently at a pub that might be PUA inspired, I don`t know, the guy was standing in front of me at the line to the toilet, and out of nowhere he just asked me: “Are you one of those angry girls who don`t talk while standing in line?” I paused, and said that that was a very strange way to start a conversation. He looked confused, and told me that my response was wrong, that I should have just said that I`m not an angry girl. I raised an eyebrow and turned away, that was just too strange for me. Later that evening he just casually grabbed my ass and quickly left the pub. I was too surprised to react immediately, so the bastard just got away with it.