An open thread for personal stuff, continuing from here.
As usual for these threads: no trolls, no MRAs, no I’m-not-really-an-MRA-buts, don’t be mean.
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We Hunted The MammothBucking the Backlash
We Hunted The Mammoth
That’s adorable!
I don’t want to start a fight, and I’m not going to get het up with anyone who is dead set on doing it, but I want to drop it here that referring to people from the United States as “USians” kind of gets my goat.
I know the context and why people do it. But it doesn’t actually make sense, for three reasons.
First, we don’t refer to people from the Republic of Columbia as “Republicans,” or to people from the Federative Republic of Brazil as “FRians.” That’s not how demonyms work.
Second, we usually allow people to decide what they want to call themselves and then honor that decision. We don’t allow outsiders to label a group against that group’s will. It is commonly agreed (not by 100% but by most) amongst people in the United States that we call ourselves Americans. I don’t know why this rule gets thrown away in this one case.
Finally, some people from Columbia want to be able to call themselves Americans. That’s fine. I don’t know why that means I can’t call myself one. I am also a person who is from an American continent, so I have just as much claim on the demonym “American” as anyone from Columbia.
This all I’ll say on the topic because I really don’t want an argument, but I’ve been seeing it a lot lately, especially today, and it’s becoming a serious pet peeve and I had to say it.
My apologies for using the term, Policy of Madness. I did not realise that it offended, and will not use it any more.
Also, not at all offended or put off that you don’t like the term, and I certainly don’t want to argue about it, either. 🙂
Doesn’t really strike me as Fightin’ Words.
I think the difficulty is that America is two continents, while Brazil and Colombia (and Canada and Argentina and Peru and Suriname and Guyana…. etc) are all specific places. So the United States of America is where exactly? Everyone knows where, but the phrase itself is not specific and American is too broad. At the same time, there’s some interesting culture implications in people from the United States being commonly refereed to as Americans, while everyone else is… Whatever they happen to be.
The “United States” though is very specifically one place (the place with all the united states) and also a phrase everyone knows (Hoooolllyyywooooood).
So mayhaps that’s why?
Also it helps avoid people going:
“So I’m an American”
“Oh, I like Washington”
“Not that kind of American”
“What? I thought you were–”
“I’m from Brazil. I’m not the same American as the other Americans who also call themselves Americans”
I think a lot of peeps, like myself, started referring to themselves as USians so as to reduce confusion on the interwebs. Africa is also a continent made up of many countries.
Well, I have been slammed for using ‘American’ for people from the USA, been slammed for not using it for people from the USA, so I’m fine either way, lol. I will be happy to use it here.
@PoM
I see where you’re coming from and, as a furriner, I’ll use Americans from now on – that’s what I would say offline after all. I admit that using USians was mostly to be trendy and/or slightly mocking as opposed to for some political reason. (If you can’t make fun of Americans, who can you make fun of??)
@thebewilderness
As a yank, I respect your right to choose your own label as well.
(Does anyone anywhere still use yank seriously? If not, when did it go away? The 80s??)
PoM’s request is the first time I’ve seen anyone ask people not to use USians or USAnians; I started to use it because people requested it, to specify “American from the US” rather than treating the US as if it is the only place America refers to. Like Kim, it’s a term I know and use more online than off.
Which makes for a bit of a quandary, for we have different people, often from the same country, asking to use different terms. Someone’s going to be displeased or offended either way. 🙁
As for Yanks – mostly it’s Septics still in use here, which tells you the sort of conversations I hear (Republicans, rightwing horrorshow, etc, etc.)
Like I said, I’m not going to bring it up again, and if people us USian I’m not going to complain.
However, I will mention that the large country immediately to the south of the United States of America is called the United Mexican States.
But Mexico doesn’t refer to a continent, let alone two.
It is a United States, so the claim that “American” is too general but “USian” is specific is not true. USian can also refer to residents of more than one country.
True; but it’s the US’s tendency to appropriate stuff that I think raises hackles. USAnians would at least be more specific, if clumsier.
Yes, like I said I know the context and the reason people do it. It’s not appropriation; it’s the name of the country. It’s the United States of America, which is a true description, and the logical demonym is American. Just as the logical demonym of the Federative Republic of Brazil is Brazilian. Just as the logical demonym of the Republic of Colombia is Colombian. That’s how demonyms work.
Referring to the people of the USA as Americans predates the United States being a power and Americans having the ability to appropriate anything. The US was once a small and weak country that needed the French to survive, but residents were called Americans then. Not sure when we forfeited the name. I don’t think Americans ever thought they did, which comes back to other people deciding what we get to call ourselves and how that is not legit.
We forfeited it when the Native Americans said excuse me, pardon me, hello, for about the kazillionth time.
I don’t actually run into many “Native Americans” who call themselves that? Usually they want to be called by their tribal name, since they didn’t name this land “America” and aren’t a single group, and don’t necessarily appreciate being lumped together under a group name assigned by colonizers.
But, I said I didn’t want to argue about it, so this is the last from me, for reals this time.
It’s also a hell of a long time since the USA was a weak collection of states or country, so that’s hardly relevant to how it’s perceived – internally and externally – now.
No worries, PoM.
Come to think of it, I’ve never actually met anyone who identified as “American” who wasn’t from the USA. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m just wondering if this is one of those cases of well-intentioned people hearing that something was offensive and running with it without actually talking to the people we were trying to avoid offending. Does anyone have any primary sources for this argument?
I’ve never spoken to anyone not from the US who identifies as American either. I actually have no idea where “USian” comes from and have only ever used it online. In theory it’s useful as a way to separate people from the US from people who are from elsewhere in North America, Central America or South America. But really, when some says “American” it always means someone from the US. USian doesn’t offend me or anything but I’d be hard pressed to identify the point of the term.
I’ve identified as a north american occasionally since I started chatting with people on-line. It gives context to conversations and perspectives and time zones. So, I’m north american, but not american, which sometimes requires that distinction.
It’s funny. I went on a cruise a few years ago, and there was this big meet & greet event. People introduced themselves as Joe from Someplace, but Americans always said what their city was, and everyone else said what their country was. I don’t know if that’s because we cruised from a port in an American city, so they assumed that most people present would know what their city was, or if it would have been the same if we’d left from a port in a different country.
But I don’t generally hear people saying, “I’m Joe from America”, it’s always “Joe from Boston” or “Bob from Texas”.
Now you mention it, when I have met Americans here, the broadest they go is state. But then, the accent gives away country of origin as soon as they open their mouths anyway. They can assume everyone will have heard of their state (even if they have no idea where it is exactly) (though I hadn’t heard of Idaho before I went there as a teenager) whereas an Australian talking to an American can’t be sure that they will recognise anything smaller than a continent.
So I think it’s partly the exporting of American culture and partly the pessimistic assumptions of the geographic knowledge of your average American.
side challenge: name all Australian states and territories without looking them up. Will accept just the main 8 since I don’t know all the little ones either.
New South Wales, Tasmania, Queensland… That’s all I’ve got. I only know the names of 2 or 3 Mexican states, too.
Nah, plenty of Canadians have nearly the same accent. Sometimes you wouldn’t even notice a difference until you catch a word like “about” or “been”.
Or at least, that’s the impression I get from watching Canadian TV. I know y’all have regional accents up there, but then, so do we.