I don’t often write about Alison Tieman – the eccentric FeMRA videoblogger known better as Typhon Blue – in large part because, well, have you ever watched one of her videos? Her arguments and assertions bear so little relation to what the rest of us know as reality it’s as if she lives in some weird inverted world of her own making.
It’s rather difficult to address the arguments of someone when virtually everything she says is wrong – logically, historically, morally – in some fundamental way.
But I’m going to have a go at her latest video anyway, because, well, it’s only 4 minutes long, which will make unpacking its fractal wrongness a little less of a daunting task. Also, there’s a kitty in it.
In the video, Tieman, in the guise of “Professor Hamster,” makes the startling claim that Women’s Suffrage was “Feminism’s first act of female supremacy.”
How, you might wonder, does equality at the ballot box count as “female supremacy?”
Well, according to Tieman – one of A Voice for Men’s self-proclaimed Honey Badgers – it’s because women (at least in the US) don’t have to register for the draft.
This is an old argument of hers, based on the strange belief that voting rights for men in the United States are contingent on them signing up for selective service, something that’s not, you know, true. She seems to be confusing the United States with the fictional universe of Starship Troopers, in which “Service Guarantees Citizenship.”
In any case, because suffragettes didn’t demand to be drafted when they demanded the vote their demand, Tieman concludes that they weren’t seeking equality but supremacy.
Never mind that at the time the notion of women being drafted would have struck the general public as absurd.
Never mind that when draft registration was being considered for reinstatement in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to have registration expanded to women as well, because not requiring women to register would relegate them “to second-class citizenship by exclusion from a fundamental obligation of citizenship,” as the New York Times summarized their position.
Ultimately, over NOW’s objections, the Supreme Court ruled that registration could be restricted to men only. The all-male Supreme Court; the court didn’t get its first female Justice, Sandra Day O’Connor, until later that year.
For all of the hullabaloo, the requirement that men register for the draft is an essentially meaningless “obligation.” The draft is a dead issue in the US, about as likely to be revived as Jarts.
Tieman goes on to note that “female suffrage enabled women to vote for wars that only men had to fight in.” In fact, as anyone who’s paid any attention to real world politics knows well, women are consistently less likely than men to support war.
Tieman’s arguments about women’s suffrage are just bizarre. It’s when she starts talking about the civil rights movement that she moves beyond bizarre to offensive.
Throughout the video, she contrasts what she sees as the good and humble civil rights movement with the “privileged” and “entitled” suffragettes; it’s a strange and backwards argument, at odds with historical reality, and one that insults not only the suffragettes but our greatest civil rights heroes as well. “During the civil rights movement,” she proclaims,
black moderates believed that black people needed to EARN their civil rights. Extremists at the time believed that blacks people should receive their rights by virtue of being human beings. …
Minorities felt they had to earn their rights and often had to make enormous sacrifices in war prior to even having their requests for rights considered reasonable. Women felt they were simply owed. …
Minorities approached suffrage from the usual mentality of people who are actually oppressed: We have to earn everything, including citizenship rights. Whereas women approached the issue of suffrage from a mentality of privilege and entitlement: We are owed our rights.
Where even to start with this jumble of wrongness?
Let’s start with her most basic misapprehension, that human rights are something that have to be earned. In fact, the basic premise of human rights is that we have certain rights because we are human beings. This isn’t entitlement or extremism; it is the fundamental basis of democracy.
You would think that someone who calls herself a Men’s Human Rights Activist would have a better understanding of the rudiments of human rights.
In the Declaration of Independence, you may recall, Thomas Jefferson famously proclaimed “that all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” He didn’t say they had to earn these rights; he said that they were born with them.
Granted, it took quite some time before this sentiment applied not only to white men but also to women and African-Americans, but this had nothing to do with anyone “earning” rights; it had to do with the fact that some human beings were seen as more human than others.
When Martin Luther King made his case for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, he harked back explicitly to Jefferson’s words in the Declaration of Independence. In his most famous speech, delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the March on Washington in 1963, he declared
In a sense we have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. …
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.”
This was not the first time he had made this argument. In a 1957 speech also delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, he declared that
The denial of this sacred right [to vote] is a tragic betrayal of the highest mandates of our democratic traditions and its is democracy turned upside down.
So long as I do not firmly and irrevocably possess the right to vote I do not possess myself. I cannot make up my mind — it is made up for me. I cannot live as a democratic citizen, observing the laws I have helped to enact — I can only submit to the edict of others.
It’s our humanity, not a signature on a selective service registration form, that entitles all of us to the right to vote.
If the Men’s Rights Movement wants to campaign to end selective service registration, go for it. Just don’t pretend that this has anything to do with the right to vote. Or that demanding basic human rights is a sign of “entitlement,” much less “female supremacy.”
Also, maybe lose the stupid hat?
Below, a song that kept popping into my head as I tried to make sense of Tieman’s most peculiar views. Well, the chorus anyway; the rest of the lyrics don’t really fit.
I like that you think that excluding the very poorest and least powerful from voting is actually not a problem.
Here’s another problem: people getting purged off the voter rolls. Right now you can find out that you’ve been purged by trying to vote and discovering that you’re not on the list. If we’re depending on a computer choosing from a register, it’s pretty damned simple for a state to exclude lots of urban black and Hispanic people and those excluded people would never know it!
This non-response biases exist today as far as I know from most current systems ( or maybe worse)
I think you conflate bias from sampling and bias from non-response. I think the former is quite avoidable but the latter is unevitable, but then the question is, will it be worse than today?
Why is this conversation even happening? The reason allowing a small random sample to vote be bad is that most of the population wouldn’t get to vote. How is disenfranchising the majority of the population a good thing?
Migrant workers and domestic abuse victims are not excluded from voting. Try again.
Bias from non-response IS sampling bias. It is one form of sampling bias. You know fuck-all about sampling, do you?
Name one method of sampling that avoids all bias. Your “randomized computer pick” has failed – if you cannot contact 100% of your sample, bias is introduced. It’s hilarious that your argument for why this is not a problem seems to boil down to “those people don’t have a very loud voice anyway, so let’s just silence them entirely, no loss.” Also: computers are incapable of true randomness.
Of corse it is what if, because you can’t do a non-response analysis before you’ve got the results. If there is already a resounding majority and a small non-response, then it can be shown the skew will not matter.
Yep. You know fuck-all about sampling. Go sit down, your ignorance is shining like a fucking beacon.
Also: I am laughing my fucking ass off at this. “Resounding majority”??? What color is the sky on your planet? Elections are routinely won based on less than 2% difference in votes. If your sample has biased away 1% of the vote and your remaining sample has a confidence interval of 6%, you want to call an election based on that? Fuck me running.
yeah it is, i confused it with selection bias., so youre right.
Not formally, but do really think there is no systematic bias in current systems, with people who cannot get voting cards due to (unknown or not current) adress (for some systems) or voting denied due to ( registration in wrong place,officials who think you’re in the wrong distict, lack of ID etc.)
None. Even with a purported “total sample”
Good enough for most human purposes, Or use a radiactive device then.
Invalid
So you know what the skew from non-response is before the results are in?
I’m not saying there is no bias in the current system. I’m asking why you think your method, full of bias, is superior.
Invalid why?
Here’s a nice statistical exercise for you. Let’s say you want to be 99% sure that your sample gives you an answer that is within 1/10th of 1% of the true mean. How big does your sample size need to be?
I once read a Sci-Fi short story where this came up
Lower election costs. The interesting things are the reasons why this a bad thing, and why this is ethically wrong.
Why is lowering election costs more important than citizens being enfranchised? Not all government spending is bad. The government should be spending money on important things.
Having a small portion of the population decide everything isn’t a democracy, it’s an oligarchy. Logistically it might work very well if you want to live in a country that’s not a democracy.
Or you could go all the way and simply find the single person you think is most representative of everyone and have zir make all the decisions unilaterally.
As soon as you answer me on that sample size problem, or admit to me that you are posing this based on no knowledge whatsoever, I’ll show you why your election costs will not actually be lower.
How did I miss this the first time?
Holy shit, you think that “population” and “sample” are the same.
Look, not everyone knows anything about sampling. And that’s fine. Rational ignorance is a thing. But for fuck’s sake don’t pretend like you know something when you actually don’t. I respect people who admit their ignorance, but I have none for people who plow on forward into a field where they know nothing and carry forth like they are experts. Social science is a science. If you’re not a scientist, don’t talk shit about science.
I guess you’re mean percentage units instead of percent , makes more sense
z(.995) sqrt(p’ (1-p’) (1/n) ) = 0.01
worst case p’=.5
sqrt (.25* (1/n) =.0257
n~=378
total population assumed endless
It’s hard to remember, this was a long time ago
Well, that was what was done in that short story in the end..
Yeah, apparently it’s really hard to remember, because even a cursory knowledge of statistics will tell you that 378 is a ludicrously low number.
The equation is actually:
n = ((z x σ)/E)^2
z for 99% is 2.576 (.005 per tail)
σ for a proportion where the actual proportion is unknown is .5
Our allowable error is .001
Run that through. You will find that your sample size is 1,658,944.
That may seem like it would make for a cheaper election, but this doesn’t scale. You can’t just sample 1.6 million people nationwide and decide all elections nationwide based on that 1.6 million people. You need 1.6 million for every Senate race. Every House race. Every mayoral race. Every school board race. You need to sample 1.6 million for the county jailor race.
Your election is not cheaper this way. You wind up taking a population measurement anyway.
I meant total investigation of the population, so yes , I wrote wrong. Also i haven’t said I know sampling, i remember fragments and sometimes completely wrong, like I confused sampling and selection.
Misremembering terminology is not talking shit, it is just being wrong in that case.
Would you go up to a physicist and start talking about how the LHC is damaging spacetime by running all those collisions in the same spot, and when the physicist points out that the Earth is in constant motion so the “spot” is not the same at all from moment to moment, claim that you weren’t talking shit and your points are totally valid?
ok, let me try again (i’m sobering up)
z(.995) sqrt(p’ (1-p’) (1/n) ) = 0.001
worst case p’=.5
sqrt (.25* (1/n) =3.89*10^-4 (was miscalcualted before in a rather embarrassing way)
.25 *1/n=1.51 *10^-7
1/n=6.06*10^-7
n~=1651225
Yep with so many it will not be any advantage, and also rather undemocratic. Thanks for your explanation!
Why not claim that you weren’t talking shit and your points are totally INvalid.
Also not same thing, a better allogy would be if somebody made a statement about strong force when they meant the weak force, that is confusion of terminology.
Or someone mixed up debets and credits.
Social science is a science. Political science is a science, and is not the same as politics. Everybody and their dog has a political opinion, which is valid and right, but political science is a science.
I missed this
That is very problematic and something I hadn’t thought of.