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A Voice for Men's Alison Tieman: Winning women the vote was “Feminism's first act of female supremacy.”

I don’t often write about Alison Tieman – the eccentric FeMRA videoblogger known better as Typhon Blue – in large part because, well, have you ever watched one of her videos? Her arguments and assertions bear so little relation to what the rest of us know as reality it’s as if she lives in some weird inverted world of her own making.

It’s rather difficult to address the arguments of someone when virtually everything she says is wrong – logically, historically, morally – in some fundamental way.

But I’m going to have a go at her latest video anyway, because, well, it’s only 4 minutes long, which will make unpacking its fractal wrongness a little less of a daunting task. Also, there’s a kitty in it.

In the video, Tieman, in the guise of “Professor Hamster,” makes the startling claim that Women’s Suffrage was “Feminism’s first act of female supremacy.”

How, you might wonder, does equality at the ballot box count as “female supremacy?”

Well, according to Tieman – one of A Voice for Men’s self-proclaimed Honey Badgers – it’s because women (at least in the US) don’t have to register for the draft.

This is an old argument of hers, based on the strange belief that voting rights for men in the United States are contingent on them signing up for selective service, something that’s not, you know, true. She seems to be confusing the United States with the fictional universe of Starship Troopers, in which “Service Guarantees Citizenship.”

In any case, because suffragettes didn’t demand to be drafted when they demanded the vote their demand, Tieman concludes that they weren’t seeking equality but supremacy.

Never mind that at the time the notion of women being drafted would have struck the general public as absurd.

Never mind that when draft registration was being considered for reinstatement in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to have registration expanded to women as well, because not requiring women to register would relegate them “to second-class citizenship by exclusion from a fundamental obligation of citizenship,” as the New York Times summarized their position.

Ultimately, over NOW’s objections, the Supreme Court ruled that registration could be restricted to men only. The all-male Supreme Court; the court didn’t get its first female Justice, Sandra Day O’Connor, until later that year.

For all of the hullabaloo, the requirement that men register for the draft is an essentially meaningless “obligation.” The draft is a dead issue in the US, about as likely to be revived as Jarts.

Tieman goes on to note that “female suffrage enabled women to vote for wars that only men had to fight in.” In fact, as anyone who’s paid any attention to real world politics knows well, women are consistently less likely than men to support war.

Tieman’s arguments about women’s suffrage are just bizarre. It’s when she starts talking about the civil rights movement that she moves beyond bizarre to offensive.

Throughout the video, she contrasts what she sees as the good and humble civil rights movement with the “privileged” and “entitled” suffragettes; it’s a strange and backwards argument, at odds with historical reality, and one that insults not only the suffragettes but our greatest civil rights heroes as well. “During the civil rights movement,” she proclaims,

black moderates believed that black people needed to EARN their civil rights. Extremists at the time believed that blacks people should receive their rights by virtue of being human beings. …

Minorities felt they had to earn their rights and often had to make enormous sacrifices in war prior to even having their requests for rights considered reasonable. Women felt they were simply owed. …

Minorities approached suffrage from the usual mentality of people who are actually oppressed: We have to earn everything, including citizenship rights. Whereas women approached the issue of suffrage from a mentality of privilege and entitlement: We are owed our rights.

Where even to start with this jumble of wrongness?

Let’s start with her most basic misapprehension, that human rights are something that have to be earned. In fact, the basic premise of human rights is that we have certain rights because we are human beings. This isn’t entitlement or extremism; it is the fundamental basis of democracy.

You would think that someone who calls herself a Men’s Human Rights Activist would have a better understanding of the rudiments of  human rights.

In the Declaration of Independence, you may recall, Thomas Jefferson famously proclaimed “that all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” He didn’t say they had to earn these rights; he said that they were born with them.

Granted, it took quite some time before this sentiment applied not only to white men but also to women and African-Americans, but this had nothing to do with anyone “earning” rights; it had to do with the fact that some human beings were seen as more human than others.

When Martin Luther King made his case for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, he harked back explicitly to Jefferson’s words in the Declaration of Independence. In his most famous speech, delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the March on Washington in 1963, he declared

In a sense we have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. …

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.”

This was not the first time he had made this argument. In a 1957 speech also delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, he declared that

The denial of this sacred right [to vote] is a tragic betrayal of the highest mandates of our democratic traditions and its is democracy turned upside down.

So long as I do not firmly and irrevocably possess the right to vote I do not possess myself. I cannot make up my mind — it is made up for me. I cannot live as a democratic citizen, observing the laws I have helped to enact — I can only submit to the edict of others.

It’s our humanity, not a signature on a selective service registration form, that entitles all of us to the right to vote.

If the Men’s Rights Movement wants to campaign to end selective service registration, go for it. Just don’t pretend that this has anything to do with the right to vote. Or that demanding basic human rights is a sign of “entitlement,” much less “female supremacy.”

Also, maybe lose the stupid hat?

Below, a song that kept popping into my head as I tried to make sense of Tieman’s most peculiar views. Well, the chorus anyway; the rest of the lyrics don’t really fit.

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pecunium
10 years ago

The move from Calif to NJ made voting feel odd. There is no voter guide, just comments on the ballot. The ballots are physically huge (one sheet for everything), parties are in columns, and there is no paper trail.

I am never sure if I’ve voted, and don’t know where to go to find the texts of the (few) referenda.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
10 years ago

I thought everyone had the right to freedom of opinion and expression.

So not only does trolly think that other people have obligations but as a white man he has only rights, he also thinks that he gets to have an opinion but nobody else can have the opinion that his opinion is uninformed bullshit packed with unexamined privilege. He can say that we should take seriously the suggestion that women be disenfranchised, but nobody else is allowed to say that he is tedious and stupid.

Sounds about right.

thebeam2008
thebeam2008
10 years ago

I am saddened that my ideas resonated so poorly with you. I would have thought the reception amongst those campaigning for equality would have been much more…embracing (or at least not openly hostile)… Especially considering the sources.

You see, the vast majority of my comments, since the start, were not my own ideas. I was paraphrasing well known feminists like Gloria Steinem (I revealed that one) with the lion’s share were from a woman that deserves a lot more respect for her ideas than I was given: Eleanor Roosevelt. Most of my posts paraphrased her greatest work, a document she wrote for the United Nations and it was signed by EVERY country on the planet: The Declaration of Human Rights.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
10 years ago

I was paraphrasing well known feminists like Gloria Steinem

Gloria Steinem said that white men have rights but people who are not white men have obligations? Gloria Steinem said that freedom of speech requires blogs to host your speech, and that nobody else can use their own freedom of speech to say that yours is idiotic? Or was that part from Eleanor Roosevelt?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Roosevelt’s comments on internet freeze peach were part of her famous speech “On Time Travel”.

maistrechat
10 years ago

I remember hearing that speech next year.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Gloria Steinem texted it to me as part of a conversation about why she doesn’t believe that white men have any responsibilities, and then we both cackled, as feminists do. The plan for next weekend is to use the time machine to go give dear Eleanor some scented candles for her 5th birthday.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Beamie-baby, let me spell something out for you.


*beam walks in and shits on the floor*

“Dude, what the hell? Get out of here!”

“I’m sorry if you don’t like my opinions, but I think everyone should be treated equally and deserves to have a voice, don’t you agree?”

“What? No, you just…”

“Voiced an opinion, just like everyone else. What, just because I’m white and male you think I shouldn’t be heard? I dream of a day when people will be judged not by the (white) color of their skin, but the content of their character.”

“Fuck off. It’s not because you’re white, it’s because you s…”

“Sorry my message doesn’t resonate with you. It’s strange, because I was paraphrasing Martin Luther King just then, you’d think you all would agree with him.”

“Get the fuck out.”

Take your smug-ass trolling somewhere else, dude.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
10 years ago

I read once on Wikipedia that Eleanor Roosevelt had theoretical physicist leanings.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I am saddened that my ideas resonated so poorly with you. I would have thought the reception amongst those campaigning for equality would have been much more…embracing (or at least not openly hostile)… Especially considering the sources.

Did you miss the part where the top of the page explicitly says we’re here to mock misogyny? This isn’t a Feminism for Dummies site. We don’t have to be nice to men who tell us we should take the opinion of a woman who believes the majority of the commenters here shouldn’t have the right to vote seriously. I am saddened you were stupid enough to think that would go over well.

We aren’t your mommy. We don’t have to pat you on the hand and tell you “good job” every time a shit nugget comes falling out of your mouth.

You see, the vast majority of my comments, since the start, were not my own ideas.

Yeah, misogyny and disenfranchising voters aren’t exactly new and original.

I was paraphrasing well known feminists like Gloria Steinem (I revealed that one) with the lion’s share were from a woman that deserves a lot more respect for her ideas than I was given: Eleanor Roosevelt. Most of my posts paraphrased her greatest work, a document she wrote for the United Nations and it was signed by EVERY country on the planet: The Declaration of Human Rights.

It was already explained to you that you took that Gloria Steinem quote out of context and deliberately misinterpreted it. I don’t want to speak for anyone else, but I can almost guarantee you she would not think feMRA bullshit should be listened to and would not agree with you that women should have to earn the right to vote.

Eleanor Roosevelt probably doesn’t want to be connected to your keyboard vomit either. I don’t see what the UN declaration of human rights has to with this thread. Was there a clause in there which gives annoying conservative dudes the right to troll feminist blogs?

It’s not our fault you misinterpreted feminist quotes and the meaning of human rights. Go learn basic reading comprehension skills and return to us when you’re ready for an adult conversation. Right now, you would have trouble matching wits with any of us at 12 years old, let alone now.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Ugh. Blockquote fail.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Cassandra,
When you and Gloria hop in the tardis to visit Eleanor, will you please tell her to add an addendum to the UN declaration that specifically excludes thebeam from human rights? Cause you, know I’m a feminist and just mean that way.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

We can totally do that. We’ll have to arrange a second trip, though, because I think even precocious wee Eleanor might have trouble grasping the concepts involved as a 5 year old.

Though to be fair she’d grasp them better than Forehead does.

Misha
Misha
10 years ago

Just tried to go back through the comments. I still have no idea what thebeam is going on about or why he’s sea lioning all over the place.

I thought everyone had the right to freedom of opinion and expression. If I seek, receive and impart ideas and hold opinions…should I not be free to do so without interference? (This applies to everyone, of course.)

There are interesting ideas being discussed here…and I am learning from this forum — how can anyone learn from your ideas if all outsiders are attacked and mocked for attempting to interact with you??

I do feel that you have the right to freely assemble, discuss and associate with each other — and no one should be compelled to to join a group. Please give me a chance?”

It’s very hard not to just hear ‘arf arf arf’. Is “just interact with me” trolling a thing yet?

http://i.imgur.com/FxikD5Y.png

thebeam2008
thebeam2008
10 years ago

Thanks for the screenshots though! <3

Misha
Misha
10 years ago

…worst gotcha attempt in the world, dude.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Again, where are all the fail trolls coming from? I feel like we should go over there and give them some basic pointers, just to be neighborly.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

You know what’s mildly interesting? More interesting than bream’s trolling, at least?

The declaration of human rights wasn’t voted in by every country in the planet. Nobody voted against (who would vote against human rights?), but a number of nations abstained, including the Union of South Africa, which abstained primarily because its then-current system of apartheid violated the declaration.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Screenshots of what? Distributed to whom? I feel like I said the same thing to another troll not too long ago, but who’s gonna care about some random smug dude with a collection of screenshots of people being pissy at him for shitting on their rug?

Bostonian
Bostonian
10 years ago

It’s about ethics in gaming journalism!

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
10 years ago

@thebeam2008

Dude, you’re going about this the wrong way. Here, let me form a short model you can base your next reply on:

“Wow, have I been acting like a huge entitled asshole on this thread. Seriously, I’ve still a long way to go before deserving a “chance” with people who know way more about the subject than I do.

Blinded by my privilege, I have been unable to understand that what counts as an interesting exchange of ideas to me is reiterating and re-debunking tired misogynistic talking points to the people here, and while I am able to detach myself from the discussion and go do some other stuff while never being in any danger of losing my rights as a citizen, there are still people, in high places to boot, who think women should not deserve full rights as human beings. This is reality to women, not some thought experiment where I can play the devil’s advocate and be treated like a brave hero challenging other people’s views. This is not an exchange of ideas, this is way more learned people schooling an arrogant jerk on the pre-basics of feminism. I have nothing they haven’t heard before.

Oh boy, I sure have been acting like an insensitive prick. I think I’ll be doing some more lurking while educating myself on what feminism is before even thinking about sharing my opinion again.”

You’re welcome.

Seriously, if you’d walked in and expressed your confusion over a subject you may not (yet) fully understand, I can guarantee you you’d have found at least one person willing to give you a patient reply to said issue.

Instead, you march in and suggest that the terrible person who is the subject of this post should be given the benefit of the doubt. Because reasons.

Expressing your opinion is allowed, but others have the right to express their opinion on your opinion being terrible. I know right-wingers are fond of claiming that all opinions are equal, but seriously, the opinion that women shouldn’t be treated eqully to men is not the same kind of opinion as chocolate ice cream being the best ice cream flavor*.

*A bad example, I know. Of course chocolate is the best flavor. Everyone who disagrees is wrong, period. So there.

@kittehsef and others sharing cute animal videos and pictures:

*head explodes from the cute*

Love them.

I also literally LOL’d at the ‘knights riding corgis’ picture. That’s adorable and funny. I’m totally going to imagine wargs as giant puppies from now on, running around with their tongues hanging out.

Of course, thinking about orcs throwing sticks and pretend-wrestling with their pets on the plateau of Gorgoroth kinda ruins the tension.

Sauron: Go, my army! Tonight, you shall feed on Man-flesh!

Orc #1: Spot needs to pee.

Sauron: Oh, for Morgoth’s sake… Fine! We’re just going to postpone my grand designs for the final battle for the fate of Middle-earth because Spot needs to go!

Orc #1: Thank you, Master!

Sauron: That was sarcasm, you…

Orc #2: Master, I can’t find Tasha’s leash. Can you locate it with the Great Eye?

Orc #3: No, Fido! We’re not playing ball with the Palantir anymore!

Orc #1: Bad Spot! That’s the Witch-king’s cape!

Sauron: Aaarrrgh!

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

On the downside, searching for drawings of orcs playing fetch have come up lacking.

On the upside, I have discovered a new law of the internet. Typing any subject into the search bar followed by “fan art” will result in butts. Lots and lots of butts.

contrapangloss
10 years ago

Sea-lion.

contrapangloss
10 years ago

Warg-corgis are so full of win, though.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I love you guys.

Forehead – I threaten you! With the screencaps of doom!

Everyone else – Hey, what if orcs had puppies? Aw, what a cute little puppy you are.
Also sea-lions.

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