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Men's Rights Biology 101: "Modern women choose to have periods instead of being permanently pregnant. That's a choice given to them by men."

Not considered an effective birth control method.
Not considered an effective birth control method.

Yes, I’m cribbing from r/againstmensrights again, but this is really too good not to share. Legendary Men’s Rights Crank DavidByron2 offers a little biology lesson to his comrades on the Men’s Rights Subreddit. I’m sure this will be news to a lot of you gals as well.

Only modern day women have monthly periods. In history women were more or less permanently pregnant until they hit menopause or died. When you’re pregnant you don’t get periods. Modern women choose to have periods instead of being permanently pregnant. That’s a choice given to them by men, even while men still have to continue with their historic gender roles of protecting the no-longer-always-pregnant women.

Huh. Never mind that birth control of various sorts has been around since time immemorial. And while most methods of birth control were a bit less than reliable until the twentieth century, various cultures have used extended breastfeeding to successfully ward off pregnancy. So no, women were not permanently pregnant until the smart mens came along and selflessly gave birth control to the women.

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Master of the Boot
Master of the Boot
7 years ago

If these idiots can take credit for birth control they can take credit for the holocaust, the Armenian genocide and other nasty shit. Not to mention that one guy’s weird pro incest article

Valerian
Valerian
7 years ago

Dear Ray Wolf’s Girlfriend- dump that fucker. Always, with that particular kind of dude, what I mostly feel is intense sorrow that some poor person feels like they have to put up with that kind of treatment to “earn” scraps of grudging affection.

Like, wouldn’t it be nice if the feminists really WERE taking over? But we’re not, and I know this, because the first symptom would be all women having too much self-respect to so much as look at people like Ray Wolf.

Catfish
Catfish
7 years ago

The monthly periods are actually result of better nutrition more than lack of pregnancy. A lot of the time, gatherer-trapper-hunter humans were, if not pregnant, simply too malnourished to have periods (or even get pregnant, in worst cases).

Bogdan Cvetkovic
7 years ago

I definitely think we should backronymn the letters MRA to “Male Rape Advocate” or “Apologist” or something, since it’s pretty fucking clear they don’t care about rights.

“Misogynist Racist Asshole” is also a good idea.

Noadi
7 years ago

The monthly periods are actually result of better nutrition more than lack of pregnancy. A lot of the time, gatherer-trapper-hunter humans were, if not pregnant, simply too malnourished to have periods (or even get pregnant, in worst cases).

While there’s some evidence they had lower body fat than those in agricultural societies that does not mean malnourished. They did have a diet lower in carbohydrates and animal fat (since you need agriculture and domesticated animals for lots of bread and fatty meat, game animals are quite lean) which does lead to putting on less body fat even if someone is otherwise well nourished.

Leah
Leah
7 years ago

LBT: had a more normal cis man written about how he experienced his wifes’ pregnancy, I wouldn’t mind. But Ray Wolf is just co self-centered that it’s disturbing to think he’s going to be a father.

Bina: MEN-stration of course! there you have it! MEN gave us periods as well! it’s SCIENCE and you can’t argue with that!

katz
7 years ago

That Ray Wolf article was so skeevy that I literally went and took a shower.

Nequam
Nequam
7 years ago

Now I’m trying to figure out if that could be an actual method of protest.

It’d be very entertaining in the summertime, especially if you send them by fourth class mail.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

Now I’m trying to figure out if that could be an actual method of protest. Say, sending used tampons to politicians who are woefully ignorant yet adamantly opinionated about women’s reproductive health/sexuality, along with some snarky message like, “Since you’re so invested in what goes on between my legs, I thought you’d appreciate this.”

Probably not a good idea from a hygiene perspective, but fun to imagine.

There was serious talk of doing that in the 1990s when the Howard government introduced the Goods and Services Tax, and taxed pads and tampons as being cosmetics or luxuries.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
7 years ago

Choosing “to have periods” sounds like an odd description for women opting out of frequent pregnancies and extended breastfeeding.

Yes, I have this understanding that women in historical societies were generally much burdened with reproduction and childcare work (and only menstruated on average some 10 years of their lives in total). Their husbands maybe provided most of the economic support for the children, hardly any for the women themselves.

In modern society, there’s less reproductive and childcare work around, so women have more equal burden and also better bodily autonomy. Men still support their own children mainly economically, women mainly physically. Society collectively provides some economic support for children, as a humanitarian and future investment.

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

I definitely think we should backronymn the letters MRA to “Male Rape Advocate” or “Apologist” or something, since it’s pretty fucking clear they don’t care about rights.

“Misogynist Racist Asshole” is also a good idea.

“My Rhetoric’s Appalling”?

skiriki
7 years ago

@Puddleglum:

I’m confused. Do these doodz think that women’s natural state of being is pregnant? Creepy. Very creepy.

You mean we’re TRIBBLES?

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

lowquacks, hi! 🙂

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

Hello kittehserf! I have one more kitty than last time I commented here! He’s a tuxedo-patterned kitty called Bobby and he’s integrating well enough. Has a great super-wide tail and lethal extra-long claws with a fierce inward curve like a Gurkha knife, but is thankfully possibly the most relaxed cat ever.

Don’t have any pictures right now, but will pop round here when I do have – cat pictures are as much part of the mission as mocking misogyny, right?

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

Also, that stork in the OP illustration is really cute.

Ellesar
7 years ago

Phonecian in a time of Romans: “Hunter-gather societies, like agricultural societies, could always produce more kids than they could sustain – the usual response was contraception, abortion or deliberate exposure.”

You sure about that? Everything I have read about gatherer/ hunter societies has said that infant mortality rates were extremely high – WITHOUT deliberate exposure. The birthing process was a very dangerous one for child and mother.

Also, no reason to think that the women were SO well fed, men kept the meat to themselves, with the dogs (who went on the hunt) getting more of the meat than the women ever did. In times when gathering was lean the women would have got very thin indeed, therefore conception during those times would have been much less likely.

Catfish
Catfish
7 years ago

Just a little addition to the whole thing, what David said is very true as well. Not to mention I know a LOT of women who take birth control specifically so they can control when, and if, they want to have periods at all. Periods while on a pill are basically just pointless leakage since there is no egg to flush out anyway. The sugarpills in between are just because having a period is “normal”.

For many women, monthly periods are not a choice either. I also know women who only have them once every two-to-three months, not at all due to various reasons, or they just get them when ever due to very irregular cycle. Many of these ofc “fix it” with pills… some just don’t get any thanks to contraception… some started getting heavier and more frequent flow because of contraception.

Damn, MRM biology never gets anything right.

ej
ej
7 years ago

I tried reading the Ray Wolf article. I got to the part where he said that coaching his girlfriend through a natural birth wouldn’t be much different than that one time he helped birth a calf. I couldn’t go on after that.
I was also appalled that in his entire discussion of how great natural birth is, he never once mentioned discussing it with his girlfriend. I would think that as she is the one who is actually giving birth, she might have an opinion.

Oh, wait…I forgot. Women aren’t supposed to have opinions, especially about our own bodies. We need strong decisive men to tell us what to do. (Sarcasm Alert!)

Ellesar
7 years ago

That Ray Wolf article is one of the nastiest things I have ever read. I am embarrassed to know that he originates in the same city I do.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
7 years ago

Briefly off-topic question for mods and/or Mammotheers who have been around longer than I have:

I ran across a truly appalling article in TIME that part of me would really like to see the community shred to itty bitty pieces, but a) it’s not directly related to this topic, and b) it manages to be both word salad and brazen rape apologia, and so I don’t want to just drop it somewhere it doesn’t belong.

Is there a good way to share that kind of stuff? Do I email it to the mod address? Or do I leave it in the comments? Or something else…?

Thanks for advising!

Luzbelitx
7 years ago

Probably not a good idea from a hygiene perspective, but fun to imagine.

It could always be fake blood.

We know they’ll be just as grossed out because eww, women.

Luzbelitx
7 years ago

Is there a good way to share that kind of stuff? Do I email it to the mod address? Or do I leave it in the comments? Or something else…?

Emailing David is always a good idea.

I have also seen (and probably dropped a few myself) articles linked here in the comments, you can always leave a warning before the link and voila!.

Misogyny and rape apology are pretty much on topic anywhere in Mammoth, as far as I could tell.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

Hm, more of their pattern of blind hatred toward women no matter what they do. Family planning=evil when women do it, but a proud sign of modern civilization when men do it.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
7 years ago

Emailing David is always a good idea.

Done. Thank you!

Catfish
Catfish
7 years ago

It was just a wrong choice of words – I didn’t actually MEAN malnourished. I’ve gotten a lot of brainfarts lately. Thanks for pointing it out, Naoadi.

Jenny (@dontgiveah00t)

There are a lot of men who really do think that a woman’s access to birth control, or womens’ reproductive health care in general, is theirs to grant or withhold. And it is downright terrifying when the man who thinks this is in fact a womans’ health care professional and he is right about that.

I and my sister both require, for different but entirely valid reasons, our Pap smears to be done under sedation. We actually once had to visit a (male) womens’ health professional for this procedure who for whatever reason decided to be a massive a-hole about it. He forced my mother to recount the story of my sister’s sexual abuse over and over and over again, took people who came in after us before us, and every time we thought maybe he was actually about to do his job? Nope, he just wanted to force us to justify yet again why we wanted him to do something he obviously had no intention of doing without a pound of flesh. This went on for literally hours. It was as though he hoped if he made it hard enough, wait us out, we’d give up and go away.

He continued to be bewildered by me having a Mirena despite not being sexually active at the time it was inserted. No matter how many times I explained that it was used to suppress unhealthily heavy periods, prescribed AND SUGGESTED TO ME by my male GP, he just could not stop asking “but WHY would you want the Mirena if you did not have a BOYFRIEND?” as though if he just asked that question enough, I’d suddenly realize that I had no business using a Mirena unless a man was squirting sperm into me on a regular basis.

My sister has Downs’ Syndrome, Tourettes and a few other health conditions. I have autism, cerebral palsy and hypoglycaemia. Because of the sedation we’d both had to fast, and since this guy delayed as long as possible, my blood sugar was low as hell and I was stressed out to the max by his harrassment of both me and my mother. All three of us were physically and emotionally exhausted and while my sister did not know exactly what was wrong, she knew something was up (even she pointed out ‘Hey, no fair!’ when yet another person who came in after us was taken in before us).

We did in fact end up getting the procedures done at the last possible minute before they closed for the day, but not in time to prevent a massive panicky meltdown from me when I was finally pushed too far when I was told that after all that faffing about, it might be too late to do the procedures today and the whole farce had been for nothing. A mełtdown the coward left his female assistants to deal with.

Michelle C Young
7 years ago

Oh, my gosh! Why did I read this? That awful article about his “baby mama” and how he forced her to give birth his way.

And Jenny, OH! I’m so sorry you had to go through that! I hope you gave him what for.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Jenny, that is terrible. So sorry you encountered that asshat under those circumstances.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Jeezus, Jenny, that is awful. Men like that have no business going into gynecology, EVER. There ought to be some kind of procedure to weed them out before they specialize. Why so many of them gravitate to it is a perversion I’ve never understood.

Apropos men giving women periods/birth control, thought you all might appreciate the story of how the Pill came about:

1934 Endocrinologist Gregory Pincus creates a test tube rabbit — and is vilified as a Frankenstein.

1951 Sanger and Pincus meet at a dinner party in New York; she persuades him to work on a birth control pill.

1951 Meanwhile, Carl Djerassi, a chemist in Mexico City, creates a pill by synthesizing hormones from Mexican yams. On a chemical level, the pill has been invented, but Djerassi isn’t equipped to test, produce or distribute it.

1952 The race is on. Pincus tests progesterone in rats and finds it works. He meets gynecologist John Rock, who has already begun testing chemical contraception in women. Frank Colton, chief chemist at the pharmaceutical company Searle, also independently develops synthetic progesterone.

1953 If Sanger is the activist behind the pill and Pincus the scientist, Katherine McCormick — biologist, women’s rights activist and heiress to a great fortune — is the money. She writes Pincus a check for $40,000 to conduct research.

1954 Rock and Pincus conduct the first human trials on 50 women in Massachusetts. It works.

1956 Large scale clinical trials are conducted in Puerto Rico, where there were no anti-birth control laws on the books. The pill is deemed 100 percent effective, but some serious side effects are ignored.

1957 The FDA approves the pill, but only for severe menstrual disorders, not as a contraceptive. An unusually large number of women report severe menstrual disorders.

1960 The pill is approved for contraceptive use.

So, yes, men gave us the Pill. At the behest of two rather important, influential WOMEN. Who knows how long it would have taken if these dudes had been left to realize, all by themselves, that gee, maybe women would buy this if it guaranteed them no baybeez?

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Also, Carl Djerassi strikes me as the kind of dude the MRAsshats would absolutely HATE.

pecunium
7 years ago

My partners (and a guest) were confused by my staring at the screen in gawping insensibility: I had just read that quotation. When I read it aloud to them I saw the stunned, slack-jawed, face I’d been making.

The rational mind just shuts down when it encounters that much concentrated stupid.

lkeke35
lkeke35
7 years ago

Yeah, that’s it for me for Time and Newsweek magazine. There’s been far too much privileged, racist and misogynist asshattery in these magazines for hte past few years for me to feel at all comfortable reading them anymore. They seem to be failing at all the -isms. They’ve always been conservative magazine but did they switch Editors or something? Is that the reason for all these stupid articles they keep having?

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

I have endometriosis and my cramps are killer (or were until I found a no-periods form of BC), but I’d still take a monthly uterus-full-of-knives experience over childbirth. Among other things, I’m much less likely to die of a period.

“women were more or less permanently pregnant until they hit menopause or died.”

pretty much rests on the assumption that women couldn’t say no to sex.

Or at least they wouldn’t, because those were the Good Old Days when women knew their place, etc.

I love how he acknowledges that women having kid after kid may not even make it to menopause – and yet it’s apparently men who are disposable.

Is there a good way to share that kind of stuff? Do I email it to the mod address? Or do I leave it in the comments? Or something else…?

The mods don’t have any control over content. Althugh David does have access to the mod account, you’ll probably have better luck emailing his personal account (click the image of a red head at the top of the page, or email futrelle at wehuntedthemammoth dot com).

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

OK, I’ll just come out and ask: what was the horrible article in Time?

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Kootiepatra: Was it the one by Camille Paglia? It was pretty awful. That’s kind of her schtick.

And she’s way, way, way behind the times with scientific progress if she thinks Kraft-Ebbing is the authority on human sexuality.

Shaun Day
Shaun Day
7 years ago

Jenny, hugs if you want them, and the Lego Walk for Doc Asshat.

Also, as someone who has pushed two people out of her uterus, fuck dudes who think they get to have any opinion on pregnancy. Fuck dudes who fetishize pregnant women. Fuck dudes who deny women birth control. Fuck dudes who think women are walking uteri. And especially fuck all those dudes who went on tha labour simulator. Women have been saying that something that you can’t experience is awful, but you can’t just take our fucking word for it, you have to actually pretend excperience it? WTF is wrong with you? And all the dudes who *now* believe labour is awful, really, you need to learn from *men* about how painful labour is? Fuck you all.

And there, right there, is my daily act of misandry, in addition to my continued misandrist eccentric celibacy and stating “I hate all men” upon waking every morning.

katz
7 years ago

Just a quick PSA: Menstrual blood, like all bodily fluids, is considered a biohazard. Sending it through the mail is illegal. (Fake blood would be just as bad, because of course they’d need to determine that it was fake.)

Photos, on the other hand, are fair game.

Tyra Lith
Tyra Lith
7 years ago

this is really off topic and weird and I apologize if the answer to my question is “no” and it’s inappropriate but: did someone from here recently post a link to a tumblr about… uhm… critiquing penis pictures? I don’t know if I got this link from here somewhere or from a different forum so I wanted to ask.
god, that sounds so weird. I somehow got to this tumblr page and some guy who submitted a picture there wrote that he had always thought about that kind of picture as an expression of masculine aggression but that the tumblr changed his mind about that. I found that really beautiful.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Jenny

Urgh, I hear you on the asshole OB/GYNs. I got a surprise anal exam when all I wanted was HBC and wasn’t sexually active. That was FUN.

Seriously. Cis dudes? STFU about pregnancy and birth control.

RE: Tyra Lith

did someone from here recently post a link to a tumblr about… uhm… critiquing penis pictures?

That was me! I am glad to have er… en-penised your life further?

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

According to the World Health Organization, 289 000 women died from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth in 2013. And for every woman who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year.

Seriously, assholes, stop talking about things you don’t understand.

Tyra Lith
Tyra Lith
7 years ago

@LBT: oh, yeah, thanks for that xD it looks like a very positive website to me, on first impression. 🙂

grumpyoldnurse
7 years ago

Oh, Jenny! I am so sorry that your family had to deal with such an asshat!

Also, regarding the OP, this guy has obviously never heard that some women menstruate while pregnant. That was always a fun one to explain at a prenatal visit.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Tyra Lith

critiquemydickpic does us all a valuable service. May they protect us all from godawful dick pics in the future.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

@ Jenny, I’m very sorry you went through that, I hope complaints were filed.

grumpyoldnurse
7 years ago

Only modern day women have monthly periods. In history women were more or less permanently pregnant until they hit menopause or died. When you’re pregnant you don’t get periods. Modern women choose to have periods instead of being permanently pregnant. That’s a choice given to them by men, even while men still have to continue with their historic gender roles of protecting the no-longer-always-pregnant women.

What horrible, horrible alternate universe does this guy come from? I mean, I know that this has already been adressed in this thread, somewhere, but what mis-informed Hell world formed this person’s BS ideas about history and society? How does someone reach adulthood and still be so horribly, horribly wrong about so very many things? Does he sit around all day imagining the most BS, misogynistic bafflegab he can come up with so that he can frame his narrative about how teh ebil laydeez haz enslaved teh poor menz? And why does he think being pregnant is such a f***ing cake walk? I’ve been preggers a few times and it bloody sucks! I love me some babies, but I am never going to let one grow inside of me ever ever again! How far away from our universe does this jerk actually live?

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

Don’t have any pictures right now, but will pop round here when I do have – cat pictures are as much part of the mission as mocking misogyny, right?

lowquacks, yay for Bobby joining the household!

Cat pictures are at least as much part of the mission as mocking misogyny. We must never forget out duties to the Furrinati!

Jenny, I’m so sorry you went through that – it’s horrific, and seconding blahlistic, I hope complaints were filed. That shitbreath shouldn’t be practising medicine at all.

GrumpyOldMan
7 years ago

Did that guy say what I think he said?

http://i.imgur.com/onOi58X.jpg

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

Kitteeeesssssssssss! <3

alaisvex
alaisvex
7 years ago

Did someone mention (dun dun dun) KITTENS?
comment image?oh=4e6697326345e1694c68ff5a0e4b692c&oe=5486EDEF

creepy cupcake
creepy cupcake
7 years ago

not to mention that getting pregnant doesnt always happen instantly. a woman has about a 1 in 4-5 chance of getting pregnant each month. women were certain to have a few periods inbetween pregnancies even with regular sex. people also had more fertility problems back then because there were no antibiotics. silly man.