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A Voice for Men publishes an article so extreme and hateful that it makes even Paul Elam gag

Emma Watson: The woman who nearly destroyed A Voice for Men
Emma Watson: The woman who nearly destroyed A Voice for Men

Yesterday, A Voice for Men published an article so extreme, so hateful, so beyond the pale, that even Paul Elam, the site’s founder, was taken aback by it. Elam, who said he hadn’t read the article before other editors on the site posted it, claimed in a comment that when he finally did read it, it made him literally sick to his stomach.

Today, he took the extraordinary step – for AVFM – of taking down the article and offering an apology for publishing a piece so “counter to every aspect of our mission and values.” (It’s still up, for the time being, in Google cache; the original can also be found here.)

So what did this terrible, terrible article say? Brace yourself.

It said that Emma Watson’s recent United Nations speech on feminism … made some good points.

While the author of the piece, a tech dude turned “dating expert” named Jeb Kinnison, took the standard MRA swipes at the alleged evils of third-wave feminism, he argued that Watson’s version of feminism represented a kind of “equity feminism which is equally concerned with men’s rights.”

Then he described Watson as “very, very smart, and wise beyond her years … .”

I know, I know. Horrifying.

But that wasn’t even the worst part of Kinnison’s piece. In his conclusion, he actually suggested that

The smart and civilized aren’t spending their time nursing grievances based on sex, gender, race, or religion. If only the most intelligent voices were as amplified as the voices of ignorance and hate promoted by the grievance-mongering misandrists of third-wave feminism as well as insecure male misogynists.

Yes, that’s right: An article in AVFM actually acknowledged that some of those in the Men’s Rights ranks might actually be – gasp! – misogynists.

Naturally, such heresy could not stand. In the comments, a fight broke out between those who hated the article, and those who also hated it but felt that criticizing AVFM about anything was terrible and counterproductive and, hey, remember to donate to AVFM during the Fall Fundraiser!

In the former camp, the most outspoken critic was Nick Reading of Men’s Rights Edmonton, posting under the alias Eric Tiberius Duckman, who bluntly warned that

This article is disgraceful. If uncle Jeb here imparts any more of his mangina wisdom on AVFM, I’ll be seriously considering pulling my support and encouraging others to do likewise.

Elam was having none of this – very poor taste, especially during AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser! He responded to Reading’s threats to take his ball and go home with an indignant comment defending the editors who ran Kinnison’s piece and tearing into prodigal Nick:

[O]ur editors did their job and I am 100% supportive of that.

To be even more frank, even less appealing to me than this article is tantrums and ultimatums from readers attempting to exert editorial control by threatening to leave if they see content they don’t like.

Then apparently Elam decided that he didn’t support the editors 100% after all. In another comment, he declared that

This is the most overly generous, myopic interpretation of Watson’s speech I have seen, including feminist websites. It is literally embarrassing in its reductionist dismissal of issues unique to men and boys. …

I could write an entire article on what is wrong with this piece, but I am just too busy right now.

Throwing up.

Once he finished up with this, he took the piece down.

And AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser was saved!

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weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Because I’m extra misandric, I prefer to think of feminism as a tsunami rather than a mere wave.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

blahlistic, that just makes it harder to hunt, right?

Damn, I just felt a joke whoosh right over my head.
*Looks puzzled*

Alex
6 years ago

Wow, that article was a nice collection of every MRA talking point ever. Whatever shall we do? MY BON BONS! MINE! NO ONE ELSE’S! THEY CAN’T TAKES THE PRECIOUS!

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
6 years ago

Totally true, I saw it on “Death to Smoochy”.

No…wait…those were penis cookies.

It was a rocketship!!!!

ralmcg
ralmcg
6 years ago

Well said, kittehserf. Of course, it does beg the question – why do they not treat us the way they would like us to treat them? Their fear would then be gone.

Because the men you are talking about like to be the dominatoooorrrrsss of feeeemmmaaallleeesss. Their fondness for power overrides any feelings of empathy or any thoughts about The Golden Rule. Well that’s my theory.

vaiyt
6 years ago

The perfect rebuttal to feminism – repeat the same stuff we’ve been saying before!

gorillaella
6 years ago

The plea for money on AVfM was interesting. The hands receiving the dough were old, shrivelled, unhealthy looking (don’t know why they were green).I’m sure Elam’s hands don’t look like that.

ryeash
6 years ago

https://twitter.com/weirdwoods/status/515717297798144000

Jumped the fuck on that hashtag bandwagon. Heightist-ass library.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Ah, jeez. Leave it to the AVFMangryWankers to teeter so long on the brink of an epiphany, only to fall…on the wrong damn side, as usual. Yes, Jebby, you too…I see what you did there, with your silly little digs at feminism and your projections of what YOUR side does. Dunno who the hell you think you’re fooling here, but I guess I should warn you that you’re not dealing with the Menz Rightzers here. You’re dealing with persons across the gender spectrum who use their BIG heads to do their thinking, kiddo.

I know you came here looking for ointment for the butthurt Paulie dealt you for insufficient lady-bashing; hence the un-sly digs at feminism. As it happens, I have just the stuff:

http://www.antimonkeybutt.com/clientuploads/directory/products/orignal-powder_med.png

Here, let me sprinkle some on you…

>poof<

Oh dear, gone so soon? Typical.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Also, NO TALL WOMEN! Tall women are MISANDRY! Tall women oppress the Little Man! Sorry, supermodels…you’re gonna have to go!

samantha
6 years ago
Reply to  ralmcg

Because the men you are talking about like to be the dominatoooorrrrsss of feeeemmmaaallleeesss. Their fondness for power overrides any feelings of empathy or any thoughts about The Golden Rule. Well that’s my theory.

And a gosh darn good one it is, too. Succinct, truthy, realistic. Yep. Now that we have THAT one solved, where do we go from here?

I have my eyes on a nice little planet in the Andromeda galaxy. All the feeemales and LGBT folk can go and make a new life. And women can make babies without men MUCH more easily then men can without women, or so I have heard….Mmmmmm…tempting, eh?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Tall women are great at misandering. Especially if they have short hair. Here’s the ultimate evidence (spoilers for season 4 finale of Game of Thrones).

If I misander more often will I grow to be tall? I’m only 5’5″ so my misandry must be insufficient.

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

@Cloudiah

I only skimmed the tumblr monstrosity you linked to since it’s nonstop visual cacophony made blood poor from my eyes.

I did notice they list female violent criminals, that classic nonsensical MRA attack on the strawiest straw feminism to ever straw. “Women is good, men is bad” isn’t remotely close to anything currently recognized as feminism by people who know what they’re talking about.

Sorry fellas, collecting numerous random news articles about individual female criminals’ maleficence not only doesn’t counter feminism, it doesn’t prove anything other than someone wasted a whole lot of their time. If you want to discuss crime, there are readily available statistics and studies. There’s also a thing called criminology, which takes the study of criminal behavior a little further than a compilation of low-end brief crime beat articles.

However, I do encourage anyone who likes to read about stabbings to check out that blog, there are dozens and dozens of links to articles about women stabbing all sorts of people in all sorts of ways.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It’s also funny because I could spend a year compiling a list of stories about male murderers and it wouldn’t be enough. That tumblr didn’t prove that women are more evil than men. It also, as you said doesn’t say anything about feminism because feminism doesn’t say women can’t be violent criminals. I struggle to see the point of that compilation too.

BritterSweet
6 years ago

@WWTH

Don’t you see? The very fact that the crimes are being committed by women makes it so much worse. Why else do these guys fear humiliation by a woman’s words more than being physically attacked by a man?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Anti-Monkey Butt did nothing for me. The only thing that does work for me is frigging diabetic ulcer prevention barrier cream (and it works goddamn well on my thunder thighs.)

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

ryeash, I think Gary Larson led the way, though he didn’t mention the sheer misandry of it all.

http://andreedave.com/images/Humor-FS-InconvenienceStores.JPG

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

ralmcg, could you knock off the updates from your boner? Not appropriate, in fact downright skeevy given what this thread is about and the shit dudebros throw at her.

lordpabu
lordpabu
6 years ago

I like short haired women too. I wanted to cut all of my hair off all summer but I work at a little ma and pop bar & grill just outside of a small Wisconsin town and I got a handful of whiny comments about how I looked so much prettier before I cut my hair to chin length last time I did so. Sometimes twice from the same person. I am ashamed to admit that now I hesitate to go for the shortest of short haircuts because I don’t want to deal with the comments from the conservative regulars.

Cloudiah: I love that misandric tale you shared! I so dearly want to illustrate it. That would be such a fun pet project, especially since I’m assuming the movie version of that premise isn’t going to come out any time soon.

Brittersweet, thanks for the Shiba Inu brain bleach! So cute and so funny! All of those shut downs were so damn clever. I do have an old, grumpy cat who likes to shut me down by putting his paw against my lips when I try to kiss him. On those occasions that I tried to kiss him anyway, I got my head mauled. Clearly, he’s just playing hard to get.

Now, if only he’d deign to get more creative about his shut downs. Then I could film it and we could both get youtube famous.

strivingally
6 years ago

My comment upthread (and a couple of others I made today) got thrown in the spam queue! WORDPRESS IS MISANDRY!!!! 😉

Clementine Ford has an interesting piece about how Emma Watson’s speech doesn’t deserve the “game-changer” praise it’s getting. I don’t necessarily agree with all her points, but she makes a good case for not getting too excited about a woman trying to make feminism more palatable to men.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I don’t know what would make a man think that this blog was the ideal space in which to share his boner-related feelings with the group, entirely unsolicited, but I’m going to have to second Kittehs in saying, could you not?

(Random unsolicited photos of yourself tagged “look at my (insert body part here)” tend to be equally unwelcome.)

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Seconded re: body part photos.

Not on, dude.

Misha
Misha
6 years ago

I have my eyes on a nice little planet in the Andromeda galaxy. All the feeemales and LGBT folk can go and make a new life. And women can make babies without men MUCH more easily then men can without women, or so I have heard….Mmmmmm…tempting, eh?

But what if during our space travels we run into the menfolk from Tau Ceti? That would be very, very awkward.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Depends on whether or not the shuttlecock glasses are mandatory.

Misha
Misha
6 years ago

Oh wow, just scrolling down the comments and ran into the portrait-shot of Emma Watson. With everyone else on that one dude, not cool.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

D’yall want that comment removed?

katz
6 years ago

That shibe is so cute and funny.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

OT, I just googled “armful of kittens” and found this gorgeous pic from Deviantart.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/142/2/f/where_s_the_logic_in_an_armful_of_kittens__by_torispencer-d7jax91.png

katz
6 years ago

That picture may be the best thing ever.

Wilson
Wilson
6 years ago

@brooked – yeah, I followed three of the links in there about the gender pay gap, and every one of them had qualifications (e.g. only younger women in metropolitan areas, or the 16 female CEOs – whose pay is public, which could make it embarrassing to underpay them) and they all also mentioned that overall there is still considered to be a pay gap, particularly as women get older.

So it seems possible that a lot of those links are only there based on their headlines, or the gamble that no-one is actually going to follow them through even for a cursory check.

Wilson
Wilson
6 years ago

And I agree with others that the Shiba Inu clips were fantastic, many thanks for them 🙂

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Pretty damn close, at the very least.

Misha
Misha
6 years ago

kittehserf, I’m going to vote aye. It’s the ‘I like short-haired women’ comment preceding that pic which gives me the skeevies.

Oh Spock, there you go acting all Vulcan, and yet still the furrinati got you in the end.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Oh Spock, there you go acting all Vulcan, and yet still the furrinati got you in the end.

ROFLMAO!

Right, I’ll pop that comment into the pending list until David says otherwise.

ralmcg
ralmcg
6 years ago

Sorry about the Emma Watson picture and comment.

ralmcg
ralmcg
6 years ago

To make it all up here is a compilation video of babies dancing.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Bwahahahahahaaaaaaa!

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

JPEGs. They have JPEGs. And some have sentences underlined with
red MS paint lines.

Too…funny!
*gasps*
*dies*

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Trying to prove that women are more evil than men by compiling a list of horrible female criminals is like trying to prove that black people earn more money than whites by making a list of Oprah Winfrey, Will Smith, Beyonce etc. (Come to think of it, wouldn’t surprise me if some racist MRA asshole did just that).

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

That picture may be the best thing ever.

It is.

lordpabu
lordpabu
6 years ago

Yeah, Emma Watson’s speech definitely wasn’t the game changer that some people (likely living under rocks for their entire lives) seem to think it is. Still, if other women want to take the time to coddle ignorant people who are afraid of the f-word, all the power to them. Someone has to do it. I’m just happy when that someone isn’t me, because I’m one of many who have gotten tired of yanking out the lesson plans whenever some lazy-ass ignorant person has to be schooled.

Public schools really need to have mandatory classes on gender studies. Pretending that gender makes no difference at all is not helpful, but that’s been my experience. In high school human anatomy we had to memorize all of the bones and muscles in the human body. We even got to relearn all the cellular stuff we had learned multiple times over in biology and other natural sciences classes, but we weren’t even taught what differences hormones like estrogen and testosterone have on the human body at different levels. I have known men who think women tend to be physically weaker because they don’t do jobs like construction, for dog’s sake! It’s unreal! Ignoring the differences for the most part (except for the shoddy sex ed classes that only cover genitals and condoms) is just making the sexism problem worse.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Anti-Monkey Butt did nothing for me. The only thing that does work for me is frigging diabetic ulcer prevention barrier cream (and it works goddamn well on my thunder thighs.)

Hmmm, now there’s a thought. I suffer from thigh-chafing in summer, too; it’s what keeps me out of skirts more often than I’d like (not to mention short-shorts). Any particular recommendations?

spukikitty
6 years ago

At first I was, “Hooboy! What abominations have the MPMs topped themselves with now?” the was relieved when I realized that a guy on AVFM actually wrote something good and sensible….and Elam &Co. can’t have THAT!

MPM is my name for so-called “MRAs”. It stands for “Male Privilege Meatheads”, which IMHO is a far better name for them. I refuse to give a bunch of doofy male supremacists the dignity of being called the name, “Men’s Rights Activist”. They don’t want “rights”, they want “privileges”. There needs to be two different terms for two different types of “Men’s Movements”. Sane ones like The Good Men Project, which is pro-feminism as well & deals with real male issues, are true MRAs whereas goofballs like A Voice For Men, The Spearhead, Chateau Heartiste, etc. are MPMs.

I think David should adopt this. What do you think, guys?

ryeash
6 years ago

@spukikitty

You have my vote!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Sane ones like The Good Men Project, which is pro-feminism as well & deals with real male issues

Oh wow, so many problems with this comment.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

the mistreatment of individual women is close to a non-problem in the highly-educated, wealthy precincts of the Anglosphere, where third-wave feminists now have to fudge statistics about rape and equal pay to justify an ever-more-intrusive sex-based HR bureaucracy.

What is it with MRAs and their obsession with HR? Have they been “oppressed” by being accused of sexual harassment, or is it just anger that there are women who have the ability to hire and fire them?

I’m hit-and-run posting today, so sorry if this is too off topic even for this place, but it seems important to announce to you all that FEMINISM IS OVER. It has been utterly destroyed. This has been the engine of its destruction.

What the fuck is up with “authoress”?

I don’t know what would make a man think that this blog was the ideal space in which to share his boner-related feelings with the group, entirely unsolicited

The same thing that makes men think statements like “I prefer women without makeup” are helpful or necessary: they’re used to having their boners centered and think that expanding the list of things that please their boners is liberating to women.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

Also, sorry y’all, I checked the mod queue before I read the thread and temporarily let the Emma Watson pic back through. I’ve removed it again. I’ll be sure to check the mods’ email first in the future!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ emilygoddess

It’s HR that usually runs the “how not to get fired for harassment” trainings. I’m imagining these guys as being the ones who try to argue with the presenter during those.

marinerachel
6 years ago

@ Bina, any zinc oxide-based barrier cream will do whether it’s sold for diabetic ulcer or nappy rash prevention. They’re all the same. You’re creating a slime barrier between your thighs though so while you won’t hurt at all your thighs will have a thick, slippery film on them. That’s what reduces friction and prevents the skin from touching. It’s not glamorous but it means I can wear short shorts and skirts.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Trying to prove that women are more evil than men by compiling a list of horrible female criminals is like trying to prove that black people earn more money than whites by making a list of Oprah Winfrey, Will Smith, Beyonce etc. (Come to think of it, wouldn’t surprise me if some racist MRA asshole did just that).

It wouldn’t surprise me. In the US, there’s a lot of “racism isn’t real anymore because we have a black president” sentiment.