Yesterday, A Voice for Men published an article so extreme, so hateful, so beyond the pale, that even Paul Elam, the site’s founder, was taken aback by it. Elam, who said he hadn’t read the article before other editors on the site posted it, claimed in a comment that when he finally did read it, it made him literally sick to his stomach.
Today, he took the extraordinary step – for AVFM – of taking down the article and offering an apology for publishing a piece so “counter to every aspect of our mission and values.” (It’s still up, for the time being, in Google cache; the original can also be found here.)
So what did this terrible, terrible article say? Brace yourself.
It said that Emma Watson’s recent United Nations speech on feminism … made some good points.
While the author of the piece, a tech dude turned “dating expert” named Jeb Kinnison, took the standard MRA swipes at the alleged evils of third-wave feminism, he argued that Watson’s version of feminism represented a kind of “equity feminism which is equally concerned with men’s rights.”
Then he described Watson as “very, very smart, and wise beyond her years … .”
I know, I know. Horrifying.
But that wasn’t even the worst part of Kinnison’s piece. In his conclusion, he actually suggested that
The smart and civilized aren’t spending their time nursing grievances based on sex, gender, race, or religion. If only the most intelligent voices were as amplified as the voices of ignorance and hate promoted by the grievance-mongering misandrists of third-wave feminism as well as insecure male misogynists.
Yes, that’s right: An article in AVFM actually acknowledged that some of those in the Men’s Rights ranks might actually be – gasp! – misogynists.
Naturally, such heresy could not stand. In the comments, a fight broke out between those who hated the article, and those who also hated it but felt that criticizing AVFM about anything was terrible and counterproductive and, hey, remember to donate to AVFM during the Fall Fundraiser!
In the former camp, the most outspoken critic was Nick Reading of Men’s Rights Edmonton, posting under the alias Eric Tiberius Duckman, who bluntly warned that
This article is disgraceful. If uncle Jeb here imparts any more of his mangina wisdom on AVFM, I’ll be seriously considering pulling my support and encouraging others to do likewise.
Elam was having none of this – very poor taste, especially during AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser! He responded to Reading’s threats to take his ball and go home with an indignant comment defending the editors who ran Kinnison’s piece and tearing into prodigal Nick:
[O]ur editors did their job and I am 100% supportive of that.
To be even more frank, even less appealing to me than this article is tantrums and ultimatums from readers attempting to exert editorial control by threatening to leave if they see content they don’t like.
Then apparently Elam decided that he didn’t support the editors 100% after all. In another comment, he declared that
This is the most overly generous, myopic interpretation of Watson’s speech I have seen, including feminist websites. It is literally embarrassing in its reductionist dismissal of issues unique to men and boys. …
I could write an entire article on what is wrong with this piece, but I am just too busy right now.
Throwing up.
Once he finished up with this, he took the piece down.
And AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser was saved!
That probably had more to do with the whole ‘college’ aspect and less the social justice aspect. College students are still very much in the stage where tribalism and ‘belonging’ can easily overwhelm actual issues. It’s really not fair to judge the rest of the (adult) world on the behaviors of adolescents.
The party line is that women are people. Yeah, I feel justified “ejecting” and “shunning” people who don’t agree with that position.
Y’know, sometimes communities do engage in nonsensical ideological purges.
In my experience though sometimes, some people just get REALLY offended when they get criticized, even when they’re pretty clearly in the wrong. They almost always manage to do far more damage to their reputations and relationships by trying to defend themselves than the original offence caused.
I also note that the latter can never tell the difference between he two.
Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn. Jennifer Lawrence, Kim Kardashian, Vanessa Hudgens, Rihanna, Jenny McCarthy, Kate Bosworth, Mary-Kate Olsen, Avril Lavigne, Hayden Panettiere, Lake Bell and other celebrities. Emma watson.
Not to mention all the less famous or less affluent women who are raped and mistreated by police (too many to count), murdered but presented as criminals (Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball), assaulted and harassed on video (see the news related to Sam Pepper and other similar youtube shitheads), or otherwise belittled by the men in power (see everything about Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and the rest of the sexism going on in the Atheist movement).
You’d have to be living under a rock to not realize how women are mistreated across the economic spectrum, even in the west, because all of these things came up within the last couple months.
See, this is proof that I still must (somehow) believe they’re capable of some kind of human decency since I first tried to think of what could be bad for even Elam to vomit over. My bad, won’t happen again.
@Jeb: While I think you missed the mark a bit with your take-away and were/are unduly dismissive of the problems that women and girls still come up against in western countries, I appreciate that you seemed to recognize that most feminists are also against the marginalization of the experiences of men and boys and would also fight against the narrowing of their thoughts and experiences to fit restrictive molds.
Emma Watson echoes the thoughts of many.
@aitch6262:
Well, it makes sense, really. After all, if women are people, men might feel that they can no longer play with, hurt, rape and kill their favorite toys. On top of that, they might have to share the benefits of civilization with us…you know, good jobs at equal pay and such. It would make them cry and feel bad if they could no longer pretend that they are the lords of creation and entitled to whatever their li’l old hearts (and other organs) desire.
A man crying over the loss of his god-like entitlement is a terrible thing to see.
Poor little manbaby. sniff.
Oof, how could I forget Michael Nugent and the rank-closing surrounding the allegations of rape? Put that in the list as well.
Oh man, I should have known better than to think Paulie might be angry about something actually gross.
Did Mia McKenzie’s thoughts on Emma Watson’s speech already get posted here? I thought she made a lot of good points.
Perhaps Elam could have some commemorative coins made of this vomit-inducing moment. It might help towards the fundraising! Or did they do that already? It’s hard to keep up with all the activism.
@bunnybunny
Yeah, that’s kind of what makes this AVFM thing lolriffic and sad: Watson went way way way out of her way to be inclusive of men and boys, and express concern for the way patriarchal attitudes harm them. But that’s not enough for AVFM. I guess the only acceptable way for them to care about men and boys is by throwing women and girls under the bus in some fashion.
So close. Soooooo close!
Caused by others’ prejudices, you say? Where did those prejudices come from? What motivates the people acting out in prejudiced ways? What underlying value system do people like this have? Why? How do they react to having this value system challenged?
What are others’ reactions to the prejudice? Is the behavior shamed or reinforced? By whom? And why? How do cultural messages compare to the prejudiced value system?
How does this prejudiced value system compare to the values taught by society? Is one group of people consistently valued more or associated with superior traits over others? Why? Is this reinforced? How?
Jeb, I started attending feminist consciousness-raising meetings back in the late ’60’s and I am a feminist still, and proud to be so. I NEVER saw any woman ejected for not following the “party line.” Would you mind telling me what groups YOU attended where you saw this happen? Did you go as yourself or were you disguised as a woman?
Considering that I have been involved for over 50 years and have never seen anything approaching your assertion, I think I will go with my own experience, being a woman and all. So, thanks for playing and bye-bye, now. Come back when you make up a few more.
Me too, actually, at first when I saw Elam had taken an article down my thought was that it really was something that was even more hateful than their usual stuff.
Any mention of women and girls as human and as deserving of equal treatment gets their jocks in a twist. The problem is that they want mommy and the whole world to focus all attention on THEM. My kids each went through this as toddlers, but then they got over themselves. MRA’s still want mommy to offer the breast and admire everything about them, poor things.
We are expecting adult behavior from men who are holding onto their toddler entitlement, tooth and claw.
I want to make it clear that I am separating MRA manbaby temper tantrums from the very real issues facing men, such as poverty and mental illness, to say nothing of poor treatment in VA hospitals.
@Jeb
Ah good, you’re here. Maybe you can finally answer the dread question,
can you actually cite specific examples of these feminist groups (outside of the college campus atmosphere)? This is a popular line with anti-feminist commenters, and yet when asked to evidence the existence of these evil hoards of non-inclusive raging ‘feminasty’s’, the answer is always, without fail, “There just is, ok!”
The rather underwhelming lack of forthcoming evidence could make one think this may, in fact, be a myth.
So many manbabies, so many full nappies.
Shut up, Woody.
Here, Jeb.
Does that make it better?
Man, the one day I try to embed an image and bupkis. Let’s see if this works:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1h55usS721r0qwrdo4_500.jpg
Thanks for the link, bunnybunny. I just went to the site and read her article. She made some great points, such as :
Ms. Watson –
Ms. Mckenzie –
I could not agree more. For DECADES we have been open to men…Too many just do not want to participate. The issues that are vital for ALL of us are not seen to be so when they see that women care about them.
Ms. Mckenzie made other wonderful, thoughtful points and I will leave them for others to find. Please do. It is well worth a careful read.
Or many men want to participate but only if they have control. Ask them to be quiet and listen to women and we’re driving allies away with our meanness.
I just went back and re-read the article by Mia Mckenzie and I want to really encourage everyone to go and read it. She is so brilliant and thoughtful in her analyses of both Emma Watsons speech and the problems with feminism that she is my new Hera.
Again, the link is: http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/09/im-really-emma-watsons-feminism-speech-u-n/
Now I want to bake cookies.
AARRGGHH!!!! How right you are, weirwoodtreehugger. About 24 years ago, a friend of mine and I invited Z Budapest to Eugene for a weekend workshop. We worked hard to make it happen and it did. Women from all over came and I was SOOOOOO excited!
A male friend of mine came over to my place the day before the workshop started and asked me if I would do a Tarot reading for him the next day. I told him why I could not and he asked me if men could go to the workshop. Well, it was women-only and when I told him that he damn near started frothing at the mouth. I sat in amazement and watched as he yelled about women getting together without MEN…all we were going to talk about were MEN and place curses on MEN and how we all wanted their boy-parts to shrivel up and it wasn’t FAIR that we excluded MEN.
When he was through and glaring at me, I asked him who he played pool with and had business meetings with. Men, of course, but THAT was DIFFERENT. I said “MM Hmmm,” opened my door for him and sat in my living room, laughing. For the record, the workshop was wonderful, the subject of men came up only once – we talked a bit about our personal lives – and never ONCE did we curse men. He just could not accept that women have a spiritual life that is not all about MEN!!!!!!
A few years later, I was part of a group trying to start the Oregon Pagan Association. We had meetings, but I walked out after a while because the MEN did not like it when WOMEN spoke. Nosirree. They wanted Odin and the All Male Pagan Chorus. I guess they felt threatened by Freya and Hecate and the rest. Feh!
I love that one result of the AVFM nonsense is a bunch of cool people reading Black Girl Dangerous. One of my favorite blogs. Nice!