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That guy who thinks "Drunk Female Guests Are The Gravest Threat To Fraternities" is the new Men's Rights hero

Watch out, fellas -- you've been infiltrated by THE ENEMY
Watch out, fellas — you’ve been infiltrated by THE ENEMY

Bill Frezza, the overgrown, overtan frat man who warned the frat boys of America about the gravest threat to their very existence — drunk chicks — may have lost his gig at Forbes, but he’s found a new fanbase amongst the MRAs of Reddit, who’ve hoisted him aloft as the latest martyr to femifascism. In a couple of highly upvoted threads in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars celebrated his heroism and good sense.

Let’s just take a look at some of the wisdom they deposited in the threads.

We might as well start with the most-upvoted comment of all, from the legendary JohnTheOther himself, who is evidently well aware of the threat that drunk chicks pose to his very life:

johntheother 197 points 1 day ago   It's not just that women are being infantalized, and exempted from personal responsibility. If men recognize the threat to their job, their fraternity, or life that this culturally-supported female irresponsibility creates - they are not allowed to speak about it or act in self preservation. Men are supposed to carry on as if there is no danger. A woman might feel slightly uncomfortable if she's treated as a threat, so men should just shut the hell up, and weather the hazard in compliant silence. Thus, the Forbes article had to go offline.      permalink     save     report     give gold     reply  [–]trudatness 70 points 1 day ago   This is really fucked up censorship.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]johntheother 34 points 1 day ago   At the risk of being piled-on with thought-stopping godwin's law accusations - it's fascism.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]JayBopara 24 points 20 hours ago   Godwin be damned. They are called the feminazi for a reason.

Camdaniel encouraged his brothers to stick together to defend themselves against this insidious threat:

camdaniel 7 points 15 hours ago   it seems like the only solution is to talk amongst ourselves in hushed tones. so if one of us recognizes that drunk women are a threat - we need to watch out for our brothers. the author is spot-on saying no college man should let a friend go home with a drunk girl, not to protect her, but to protect him.  we may not be able to write articles for forbes, but we certainly need to watch out for each other.

Stay strong, brothers!

Chrispy3690, meanwhile, warned against the greatest unrecognized danger from drunk chicks: their big mouths.

Chrispy3690 43 points 23 hours ago   I think this is my main take-away. Why aren't drunk obnoxious women seen as destructive as men? Is it because they cause less harm? I doubt it. Do they break everything in your living room? Maybe not. Do they make other people miserable? Absolutely.  This is something I've been trying to pin down for a while: Why is the destruction that women cause; emotional, mental, psychic trauma, any less significant? I'd take a beating from any guy over the worst slanderizing and humiliation most women can dish out any day.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]downztiger 34 points 22 hours ago   Get your ass beat by a drunk dude, that will ruin your night. Get accused of rape by a female and that shit will ruin the rest of your life.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]Chrispy3690 12 points 21 hours ago   I'm not even just talking about something like a false allegation. You ever had a woman come after your character? It's partly because she's a woman that it's so destructive (this is something I can concede might be helped by changing our views of women) but, regardless, they can be utterly brutal.  Women don't fight or argue to wound. They do it to humiliate. You argue with a woman in a public/social setting... sheesh... I'd rather let her hit me.

In the world of MRAs, evidently, it’s no big deal when men call women “cunts” and threaten them — hey, they’re just words! But when it’s women doing the talking, suddenly words are worse than fists.

Anonlymouse, meanwhile, threw up his hands in despair, because clearly there is no way that frats can possibly protect themselves from the insidious danger of drunk chicks. Because they are so terribly, tyranically sexy.

anonlymouse 23 points 1 day ago   The logical solution is for a frat to kick out every girl who gets drunk... which of course will never happen. It's identifying a problem with no viable solution in the short term.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]FasKap 13 points 1 day ago   Why not? They can go where someone else is responsible if they want to get over served and be around other people who are as well. Frats should reclaim the Gentlemen club label from strip joints if every sloshed slut continues to be a threat to their members.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]ihavecandygetinmyvan 22 points 1 day ago   Yeah like that's ever gonna happen. These are thirsty 18-22 year olds you're talking about. They will literally do and say anything to get laid at any cost and girls eat that shit up.  I've literally seen girls act like royalty, with a swarm of dudes around them at their beck and call, all acting suuuper interested in what she has to say, hoping they'll be the one to get with her that night. The desperation is very real, especially in the younger frat and general party scene.

Men literally forced to act as though they are interested in what a woman has to say. Is there any clearer evidence of the tyranny of drunk chick sexiness?

Profhelios, meanwhile, highlighted one hidden danger that no one has the courage to address: drunken giantesses.

profhelios 10 points 3 hours ago   I remember at a party about 8 years ago, we had a rather large (not fat, just... BIG! Like 6'3") female guest trying to push her way past me, screaming drunkenly that she wanted to go down a slide, while we were undergoing a police inspection to make sure we were in compliance (aka no one under 21 had alcohol). She was waving a bottle of beer around as well. This young lady was about 19 or 20 at the time if I recall correctly.  Well, I wouldn't let her pass, tried to get her to go back upstairs to one of the brother's rooms because she was the guest of one of them -- cannot recall anymore, reason with her, et al. We fortunately did not have an incident, but she went back to her sorority and told them all about how I was creepering on her, being mean, getting handsy/aggressive, etc. etc. etc...  Needless to say, for doing my due diligence and duty to protect myself and my organization, I was punished with the reputation for being a creep. I didn't date much in college after that within the Greek System.  If I had let her have her way, I probably would have been homeless for a better part of my senior year while I looked for housing in an extremely crowded and expensive market. I personally believe I made the right decision.

I guess Bill Frezza really is the hero that MRAs deserve.

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pecunium
6 years ago

Because the due diligence required was to keep a minor with booze from being seen, rather than keep a minor from getting drunk.

Ace
Ace
6 years ago

Wow, first comment! Both my first comment after months of lurking and reading, but first on the thread. I just love that comment of profhelios… maybe you wouldn’t have that problem if you didn’t try to get underage girls drunk. I won’t speculate on WHY they are doing that, though I can guess.

Really, I don’t have much interesting to say, but I love reading this blog and I figured I might as well finally drop a comment to let David know how much. (Hint: THIS MUCH!)

damselindetech
6 years ago

Because the due diligence required was to keep a minor with booze from being seen, rather than keep a minor from getting drunk.

BOOM. That’s some great human rights activism y’alls got there.

/micdrop

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

I’m gobsmacked again that these are the people who claim that feminists hate men.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

Every time JohnTheOther comes up, I’m going to point out this fact:

JohnTheOther wants to arm Iran with nuclear weapons.

freemage
freemage
6 years ago

I don’t even… That last post, it’s almost anti-poetry, a summation of everything that’s wrong with the human race in one tiny nugget of vile narcissism.

Also, Today I Learned the scale of harms, from least damaging to most:

1: Rape threats, death threats and other violence-laden outbursts targeting women.
2: Actual rape and domestic violence against women by men.
3: Actual physical violence against men by women.
4: Having any woman, ever, say something unpleasant about a man.

xXX360noscopeXXx
xXX360noscopeXXx
6 years ago

What’s weird is that if you ignore their reasoning its end conclusions are actually pretty solid. If someone is already drunk don’t encourage them to drink further in an unfamiliar environment. Don’t have sex with someone with impaired judgement due to alcohol. Sure their reasoning sucks but hey baby-steps.

Kimm
Kimm
6 years ago

This isn’t the worst thing I’ve ever seen. I mean, whatever reason they have for preventing men from going home with drunk women, it could keep some people safe.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
6 years ago

“I’d take a beating from any guy over the worst slanderizing and humiliation most women can dish out any day.”

Further supporting the saying that men are afraid women will laugh at them, while women are afraid that men will kill them.

vaiyt
6 years ago

Well, it’s no surprise that MRAs, given their utter lack of imagination, are praising the “insight” of someone saying the same old script.

shinyjoolie
shinyjoolie
6 years ago

Hang on a second, let me just….

“It’s not just that men are being infantilized and exempted from personal responsibility. If women recognize the threat to their job, their sorority, or life that this culturally-supported male irresponsibility creates – they are not allowed to speak about it or act in self preservation. Women are supposed to carry on as if there is no danger. A man might feel slightly uncomfortable if he’s treated as a threat, so women should just shut the hell up, and weather the hazard in compliant silence.”

FIXED THAT FOR YOU TO REFLECT ACTUAL CURRENT REALITIES.

katz
6 years ago

Wow, first comment! Both my first comment after months of lurking and reading, but first on the thread. I just love that comment of profhelios… maybe you wouldn’t have that problem if you didn’t try to get underage girls drunk. I won’t speculate on WHY they are doing that, though I can guess.

Really, I don’t have much interesting to say, but I love reading this blog and I figured I might as well finally drop a comment to let David know how much. (Hint: THIS MUCH!)

Welcome package welcome package welcome packaaaaaage

cloudiah
6 years ago

GamerGate made this image, which they apparently think represents reality in some fashion:
comment image

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

“It’s not just that men are being infantilized and exempted from personal responsibility. If women recognize the threat to their job, their sorority, or life that this culturally-supported male irresponsibility creates – they are not allowed to speak about it or act in self preservation. Women are supposed to carry on as if there is no danger. A man might feel slightly uncomfortable if he’s treated as a threat, so women should just shut the hell up, and weather the hazard in compliant silence.”

*APPLAUDS*

katz
6 years ago

Cloudiah: I was about to applaud that picture as a hilarious parody, and then I read what you wrote.

Still hilarious. I particularly like that the games journalists are 19th century robber barons.

seasnakes
6 years ago

I am completely weirded out by the whole “We need to protect each other! Never ever let your precious frat brother go home with a drunk woman! Protect him from the rape allegations that every woman ever is so desperate to make because going through all that shit is just so much fun!” thing.

Like, you know. Instead of having elaborate precautions and safeguards in place, have they ever considered, you know, maybe… not having sex with these drunk 19 year olds, perhaps? No rape! No rape charges! Nobody’s life gets ruined! Everyone wins! How fucking hard was that?

seasnakes
6 years ago

Cloudiah, that pyramid thing is amazing. I especially love how the Social Justice Warriors are all rubbing their hands together and grinning evilly.

(also wordpress seems to have suddenly changed my name for some reason? I’ve previously commented here as lacerta viridis, but hey, this works too; I’m pretty new here anyway.)

vraydar
6 years ago

I was waiting for them to carry him into the MRA Reddit “Rudy Style” on their shoulders. I was reading something else he posted on an MIT tech site: “each fall I give my four Bs lecture to the incoming pledge class — Brotherhood, Behavior, Booze, and … Coeds.”. Hmmm…wonder what that last “B” word really was? :/
http://www.donotlink.com/bsax

Also, here’s his explanation for his original story;
http://www.donotlink.com/bsaz
posted on a right wing rape apologist dudebro site…naturally.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

That guy who thinks “Drunk Female Guests Are The Gravest Threat To Fraternities” is the new Men’s Rights hero

Of course. Of course he is.

There’s really no asshole they won’t champion, is there?

And why are FAFSA loans at the top of the gamergate pyramid?

vaiyt
6 years ago

GamerGate: showing the world they’re right by imitating looney tunes conspiracy theorists!

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
6 years ago

Ha, I could totally get behind “don’t let your dude friends go home with drunk women”! Yes, MRAs! That would be great! Protect your brothers from raping women! DO ITTTTTTT.

storydon
6 years ago

FAFSA’s at the top because of the Gamebro-Libertarian crossover. The implication is that not only are gamers supporting their own imagined oppression, they’re being forced to pay for it via taxes funding college degrees for people who don’t deserve them.

And anyone got a gif of someone repeating “I don’t got time for this shit”? Overgrown dudebro says the threat at frats is false rape accusations, not the potential for rape. Also, he doesn’t suggest instituting policies to, as noted, not let drunk people in regardless of gender, not serve underaged people, not have people at the party whose job it is to make sure folks get home safe. No, rather than suggest ways to undermine the perception of frats as spaces for aspiring alcoholic date rapists or to even embrace working against that perception by making anti-rape education part of being in a frat (you know, working to make frats safe spaces that women feel comfortable partying at), instead tell frat boys to treat drunk women like a hot potato.

This doesn’t even represent babysteps because the core message isn’t, “We need to prevent rapes at frat houses,” it’s “Women who cry ‘rape’ at frat houses are lying, always.” It’s not surprising that posts to The College Fix and doesn’t get it. He comes from a culture of, “These are good kids, they wouldn’t do that kind of thing.” But of course, that’s not privilege, no, nothing like that.

Side note, I misread the headline of the first post about this as “Farts are under seige by drunken women, warns overgrown, overtan frat man on Forbes.com” and expected a long Reddit whine about women taking over bathroom humor, “that last safe space for men except for everywhere.” The reality was far more depressing and less hilariously pathetic.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Wow, I so don’t miss college.

I mean, I never did, but this post just made it even more so.

Also, WTF does ‘cultural marxist’ EVEN MEAN? I keep seeing it around, but it doesn’t seem to make any sense! WHAT DOES IT MEAN

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

The most hilarious bit to me: whatever image they stole it from, from what I can tell, would have been roundly applauded by Marx. So they are taking imagery with a Marxist bent and using it against cultural Marxists (whatever the hell they are).

YamaraTheGod
6 years ago

A 6’3″ woman loose in a frat… EIGHT YEARS ago!?

Think how much larger drunken women must have become since then!!

Tigerbos
Tigerbos
6 years ago

I’m surprised they think this is really a danger since I read a lot of comments from MRA’s claiming that having sex with drunken women is just fine regardless whether she is passed out and unable to say yes or no or totally oblivious to what’s going on around her. I’m sure this is simply because they can’t manage to have sex with any sober woman because of their social ineptness.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Yamara:

Your gravatar is appropriate for this comment.

And since I haven’t seen you around before, Welcome

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

The majority of college students are not traditional students.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/old-school-colleges-most-important-trend-is-the-rise-of-the-adult-student/245823/

Working older students have not got time for this crap.

…Going to college for 4 years and not working is probably somewhat indicative of privilege, isn’t it? I mean not strictly, there’s grants and scholarships and loans and whatnot.
For that matter, taking an unpaid internship is a privilege, more so than college. If you do that someone else is supporting you, pretty much, while you work for free.

It’s kind of a gate that people with poor parents have a great deal of trouble getting in, and it can lead to earning a lot later. But if you can’t work for free for a year, you’ll never get that foot in the door, will you?

Just observing…

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

CMD: Every time JohnTheOther comes up, I’m going to point out this fact:

JohnTheOther wants to arm Iran with nuclear weapons.

This would be the Iran that borders satellites of Russia (a nuclear power) and Pakistan (a nuclear power), is regularly threatened with military force by Israel (a nuclear power), is in the general area of India (a nuclear power)and China (a nuclear power), and is regularly threatened with military force by an aggressive superpower which invaded a neighbour to its east, a neighbour to its west, has used nuclear weapons in warfare before, refuses to announce a “no first use” doctrine, maintains a trade embargo on Iran and punishes extra-territorial companies that do business there, flies drones into Iranian airspace, and has its lawmakers occasionally making statements about invading Iran?

leftwingfox
6 years ago

Tigerbos: Oh they always worry about drunk women accusing you of rape, but never worry that they might actually be raping someone too drunk to consent.

storydon
6 years ago

Unpaid internships are a privilege and a scam because they don’t offer a statistically significant advantage for getting a job. PAID internships, on the other hand, do usually lead to jobs.

This is a nice rundown of why unpaid internships are BS and should be outlawed: https://medium.com/matt-bors/unpaid-internships-must-be-destroyed-6050f2c25497

But you’re right about this being the impression, the sense that you have to give yourself over to work for free to get your foot in the door. That thinking is encouraged by our culture for two reasons: 1, it makes it seem like work itself is a privilege, not something you are paid to do. You see the same mentality in critics of the $15/hour wage. It’s not that labor deserves to be compensated, that bosses owe their workers, it’s that labor is a gift and workers should thank bosses for their largess, for allowing the workers to be useful instead of burdens upon the state.
2, it maintains the hierarchy, the privilege system that we have. When people go into college then the broader workforce with the idea that they have to do unpaid internships, that they have to have the nest egg or support structure to depend on before they start their actual careers, you have a lot of talented, capable people opt-out and assume that they’ve lost before they’ve even started when they’re demonstrably no better or worse off in the career field than those who do unpaid work.

The only time unpaid work is a good career choice is when it’s explicitly volunteer work. I did a lot of volunteer radio work–DJ for non commercial stations and producer for an Indymedia newshour–because I believe in the value of community media. That work on my resume, something I pursued as a hobby and quit once I no longer had the time, got me two different teaching jobs. Doing volunteer work says you’re capable, motivated, and independent. An unpaid internship says you’ll swallow whatever they sell you.

tonks
tonks
6 years ago

I’m terribly excited because this slight tangent into the problematic nature of unpaid work gives me an excuse to delurk: I has relevant link!

In The Name of Love is one of the best things of I’ve read on this, and talks about how this idea that you should ‘do what you love’ devalues your own work and completely ignores those who don’t have the privilege of enjoying creative, fulfilling work. It’s awesome, and I highly recommend it.

I’ve been hanging about here about six months, and I’m so happy to know this community exists. Thanks David for the hard work and commentariat for being amazing. I’ll uh… probably go back to lurking until my next shining moment of pseudo-relevancy.

Mnemosyne
Mnemosyne
6 years ago

[tw: rape] I remember a while back, I read that terrible reddit threat about the rapists’ stories. The statement that haunted me the most was one where the guy said of his victim: “She was a good friend.” This man, aside from no longer having the right to call his victim “friend” anymore, probably thinks he did nothing wrong.

I never really understood why MRAs and people like Rush Limbaugh this get so upset when someone brings up issues of consent is brought up. I think that guys like the rapist described above don’t like this kind of talk because they still believe that they’re kind and good and if they were to admit that consent is important, that would mean that they hurt someone and did something awful.

Not wanting to deal with the guilt and that their self-perception no longer matches with their actions, they try to justify the crime. On a lesser scale, if MRAs were honest about consent, then they’d have to admit their ideas about sex are fucked up. That might be why they get upset about this. This is just a theory and I’m sorry if I offended anyone by it.

Why is it that many of those comments equate being accused of rape with actually being convicted of rape. Most of the time in these campus assault cases, the guy is accused, but nothing ends up happening. The courts don’t have some kind of anti-male bias and take a woman’s word as gospel like MRAs think they do.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

I have no brief for Critical Theory, but that satirical pyramid is aggressively stupid. The idea that treating half the human race as human beings is or should be considered an ideological position is nothing short of obnoxious.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Also, WTF does ‘cultural marxist’ EVEN MEAN? I keep seeing it around, but it doesn’t seem to make any sense! WHAT DOES IT MEAN

Whatever they claim it to mean, obviously.

(Insert Inigo Montoya here.)

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Also, that idiotic “pyramid” thingie has “shield” misspelled. Ha, ha.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Tigerbos: Oh they always worry about drunk women accusing you of rape, but never worry that they might actually be raping someone too drunk to consent.

They have internalized the idea that men can’t control their own sexual behavior, nor does anyone expect them to.
Like the douchebro with his stupid falling-tree analogy over in the other thread.
A man just can’t help but fall upon anyone who presents themselves as an easy victim? Really? He has no volition?

The MRA’s claim to be pro-men, but that is one of the most anti-male stereotypes out there…and they fucking believe it.
They fucking PROMOTE it.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
6 years ago

Somewhat off-topic to David, mods, et al. – especially given David’s posts on the whole #GamerGate thing:

I came across this absolute steaming pile of horseshit on Facebook…

http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/

katz
6 years ago

Also, WTF does ‘cultural marxist’ EVEN MEAN?

It sounds like someone who’s interested in the culture of communist countries, in which case it might actually be talking about me.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
6 years ago

To go along with that, here’s the paper about a recent study that concludes that those generally labelled as “SJWs” are generally far more sincere (contrary to the accusation they are “faking” it for one reason or another) but – more importantly – that parts of the brain that deal in logic and reasoning are incredibly active when dealing with social issues. So, in a way, our emotional response to immoral actions informs our intellectual approach to it as well. Who’da thunk it…

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/12/4161.full.pdf+html

Aitch
Aitch
6 years ago

Also, WTF does ‘cultural marxist’ EVEN MEAN? I keep seeing it around, but it doesn’t seem to make any sense! WHAT DOES IT MEAN

The non-Marxists are winning the battle of the economic sphere, but culturally and socially some people still hang on to the utopia of equal rights. Or something?

The first time I heard of it was in the manifesto of the Norwegian mass murderer (the guy who killed 70 youths on an island), who used it as a catch-all term to label his enemies. After a brief attempt at ironic reclaiming of the term, I’ve heard it coming up in all kinds of evil corners of the internet.
Wiki says a bloke named William Lind has been spreading it, too, but that’s someone I thankfully haven’t heard much about. From his wiki page I suppose he wouldn’t be a big fan of gamers, though.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

Also, WTF does ‘cultural marxist’ EVEN MEAN? I keep seeing it around, but it doesn’t seem to make any sense! WHAT DOES IT MEAN

Evil European communist Jews have undertaken a conspiracy to subvert Decent American Values and corrupt academia by talking about racism and stuff instead of giving people MBAs like God intended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School_conspiracy_theory

“what began as a bizarre Lyndon Larouche coinage has become the common currency of a larger and larger public of addled enragés [and] has entered at least the fringes of the mainstream.”

TL;DR – when someone says “cultural marxism”, they mean “I am an idiot and none of my opinions should be taken seriously.”

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

Better quote:

According to Richard Lichtman, a social psychology professor at the Wright Institute, the Frankfurt School is “a convenient target that very few people really know anything about…. By grounding their critique in Marxism and using the Frankfurt School, [cultural conservatives] make it seem like it’s quite foreign to anything American. It takes on a mysterious cast and translates as an incomprehensible, anti-American, foreign movement that is only interested in undermining the U.S.” Lichtman says that the “idea being transmitted is that we are being infected from the outside.”

tinyorc
6 years ago

A woman might feel slightly uncomfortable if she’s treated as a threat, so men should just shut the hell up, and weather the hazard in compliant silence.

Seriously though, does anyone else remember when crossing the street to avoid a strange man was the height of misandering?

10knives
10knives
6 years ago

Lenin was NOT an academic, he was a revolutionary. [/nitpick]

Marx and Engels were academics, though – assuming those are supposed to be on there, the pic quality is kinda bad.

10knives
10knives
6 years ago

“[cultural conservatives] make it seem like it’s quite foreign to anything American. It takes on a mysterious cast and translates as an incomprehensible, anti-American, foreign movement that is only interested in undermining the U.S.” Lichtman says that the “idea being transmitted is that we are being infected from the outside.””

Wish I knew how to block quote…

Anyway, I find that this is often a recurring theme in reactionary/authoritarian rethoric – paranoia, xenophobia, “infection”.

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