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misogynoir misogyny no trolls allowed open thread racism sex workers violence against women

No troll, no MRA Open Thread for discussion of the murders of Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball

Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball
Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball

An open thread for discussion of the murders of sex workers Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball in Jacksonville, as well as any other topics that might benefit from having no interruptions from misogynist trolls, victim-blamers and other derailers.

Needless to say, this is a no troll, no MRA, no victim-blamer thread; bans will be handed out freely to anyone who violates this rule.

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samantha
10 years ago

I just read the article that you linked to above. I am horrified that these young women and their murders are being treated as if they “deserved” what they got. This nightmarish monstrosity is made even worse by the racist cruelty of both the killers and the media/public that acts as though the young women somehow are the criminals themselves.

Great country, where you are a criminal for being female and even worse for being BLACK while being female. I feel sick. There is an evil rot working in the heart and soul of humanity, and right now it looks as though it is winning.

What can we do to stop this? I ask this and I am really looking for answers/suggestions.

cloudiah
10 years ago

This really struck me from the Gradient Lair post:

It is devastating to me that the post-mortem media violence (i.e. most of the few media outlets that reported the story are using their old mugshots

Two young women are murdered, and are literally portrayed as criminals by the media. No thought for their loved ones at all.

vraydar
10 years ago

I felt that story in my bones. My thoughts are with the family & friends of Angelia & Tjhisha. I can only imagine, given the murders and the victim blaming, what they’re going through. This is heart breaking on so manny levels.

Kevin K
Kevin K
10 years ago

Serial killers that target prostitutes count on the police not caring enough about them to investigate their murders.

Falconer
10 years ago

This is horrible news.

I wish their families all the best, and I hope the killer(s) are brought to justice swiftly.

But they probably won’t be.

greyskye
greyskye
10 years ago

These two poor girls… my heart breaks for their families. Nothing anyone could do would “deserve” such a terrible death, the fact that the media and people are suggesting so is disgusting and shameful.

Puddleglum
10 years ago

This is so sad, must not cry at work…

ikanreed
ikanreed
10 years ago

This is part of why serial killers frequently targeted prostitutes. Society would just let them get away with it, because no one cared.

samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  greyskye

These two poor girls… my heart breaks for their families. Nothing anyone could do would “deserve” such a terrible death, the fact that the media and people are suggesting so is disgusting and shameful.

I could not agree more. Sad thing is that women, regardless of race or sexual orientation, are almost always thought to deserve whatever they get. For women with darker skin, it is ramped up to even more grotesque levels.

I am a mother, and I cannot – and shy away from – even imagining what the parents of Angelia and Tjhisha are going through right now. I hope, with all my heart, that they have a wide circle of friends and family to support them.

funkykingston
funkykingston
10 years ago

Two young women are murdered, and are literally portrayed as criminals by the media. No thought for their loved ones at all.

Makes me think of this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/media-black-victims_n_5673291.html

Master of the Boot
Master of the Boot
10 years ago

More death and pain, legacy of Jim crow. The only way to try and turn the tide is to keep talking about incidents like this and never be complacent or neutral in the ongoing war of women and POC

samantha
10 years ago

The more I think about this, the more troubled and angry I find myself. On the one hand, we are supposed to be sexual for men. On the other hand, though, when we are, and ESPECIALLY when we are the ones who profit monetarily from being sexual, we are punished and, sometimes, killed for it.

I am sick and tired of the lives of my gender being treated as if we are through-away commodities. I am sick and tired of the young women, around the world, having their lives, hopes and dreams shattered by men who Don’t.Even.See.Us.

Sorry for ranting. I have to go cry and scream a little now.

NonServiam
NonServiam
10 years ago

My heart really goes out to their families and friends. What an awful, awful situation.

AK
AK
10 years ago

The fact that the media is using their mugshots is really upsetting to me. The only other time I’ve seen that for people who are in the news as victims is occasionally with lost or missing persons, if that’s the only recent picture available. In that case, it makes sense. In this case, no. IF they couldn’t track down a more recent photo (which obviously isn’t the case, given the photos on this very post), then the better option would be to just not run one. They’re victims here; while I think it’s important to humanize victims of violence especially when they’re from marginalized communities, we also don’t really need to know what they look like and plenty of murders are reported on without including pictures of the victims.

leftwingfox
10 years ago

AK, I agree completely. Even relatively liberal spaces can tend to get bloodthirsty in calls for justice, and callous in the treatment of convicts. Using mugshots of the victims is an open invitation to the worst instincts of people. The media needs to be held responsible for this.

My deepest sympathies to their families. I hope the police take the violence against these women seriously. (An admittedly thin hope, given the region…)

Shaun DarthBatman Day
10 years ago

So how do we make the media accountable for their criminalisation and minimisation of murdered POC? The fact is that we don’t hear about these murders *until* POC are screaming them at us. This is where “solidarity is for white women” comes from. On one hand we don’t hear the stories about black people, and on the other, when we do hear, the facts are so twisted it’s almost impossible to make sense out of them.

I also want to know *why* the media feels empowered to systematically do this specifically to POC, and I am including First Nations in that. The only reason we even talk about missing and murdered First Nations women in Canada is Pickton. Thousands of women are dead unremarked because they are WOC and/or sex workers, and men are literally getting away with murder. If our media is based on the expectation of what we want to know and see, how do we let them know that our expectations have evolved?

John Strycharz
John Strycharz
10 years ago

I recently saw Nick Broomfield’s new film Tales of the Grim Sleeper, about the serial killer Lonnie Franklin. He raped and murdered countless black women, some sex workers others not, in South L.A. over a 25 year period. The story is told mainly through the voices of people acquainted with the killer and/or his victims, and tells us of both the hopeless poverty that drives women into prostitution, and the shocking neglect of the mainly white police and prosecutors who failed miserably to do their sworn duty to protect and serve the community.

The most jaw-dropping moment comes when the narrator mentions that some police reports concerning murdered sex workers had the odd notation “NHI”, which turns out is cop slang for No Human Involved.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
10 years ago

I think this states what I was trying to say somewhat more eloquently.

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/25/grisly_murder_ignored_how_we_failed_angelia_mangum_and_tjhisha_ball/

BreakfastMan
BreakfastMan
10 years ago

Remember people, we don’t have problems with race or sex in this country. Racism and Misogyny are just minorites and women being too uppity and wanting special privileges. Not wanting to fucking live without fear of being god-damn murdered for the crime of being black or being women (or both). -_-

freemage
10 years ago

Shaun: This is where the old activist adage, “Think globally, act locally” really comes to the fore.

The fact is, unless the victim is very noteworthy in some way, national media is going to ignore it, in any case. It’s the local media that will decide both whether the stories are run and, if they are, how they are portrayed.

And this, therefore, is where pressure must be applied–on a local basis. Step one is getting in touch with community organizations. This can be difficult when dealing with sex worker victims, precisely because our society has demonized them so badly, and because in many areas, these organizations have a religious bent–they are often uncomfortable calling for justice for a dead prostitute. But they’re the ones who have the numbers and the notoriety needed to get the attention of the local media’s senior staff.

When talking to the local groups, then, you need to frame this as something that ultimately affects their constituency. That how cops treat dead sex workers of color affects how they treat ALL people of color, and ALL women. (With Christian organizations, in particular, I recommend arming yourself with the applicable Bible verses about the woman at the well and the adultress who was about to be stoned.)

These groups should then approach the media with specific requests–first and foremost, that more coverage be given to those areas suffering the greatest degree of violence, and secondly, that the coverage be compassionate in dealing with the victims. Start with easy, straightforward rules, such as, “Only use a police mug shot of a victim if no other image is available, and if it is necessary for the story. If another image is available, use that.” News organizations LIKE straightforward rules like this–it makes them feel like they can at least get a basic grasp of the principles involved.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

I get angry that people who engage in sex work are somehow seen as less than human, because the former and current sex workers that I’ve talked to online have been some of the kindest people I’ve encountered.
Not that it’s ok to kill assholes, mind you.

I get so angry when people find lame-ass excuses to exclude other people from human compassion, like the color of their skin, or gender, or what they do for a living, or the consenting adults they have sex with.

…OTOH, they tend to make excuses for monsters who HAVE earned that lack of compassion.
What the fuck ever. GRR.

katz
10 years ago

The most jaw-dropping moment comes when the narrator mentions that some police reports concerning murdered sex workers had the odd notation “NHI”, which turns out is cop slang for No Human Involved.

…I can’t.

I just can’t.

Tracy
Tracy
10 years ago

Jesus. NHI? So just… oh well, who cares?

katz
10 years ago

I AM WRITING ABOUT THE STALINIST PURGES AND THIS IS STILL THE MOST DISTURBING THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY.

marinerachel
10 years ago

I’m making myself a burger for dinner. Already made Big Mac special sauce to go on it. Maybe that will make me feel less disgusted with the world.