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advocacy of violence alpha males antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? bad boys beta males creepy dark enlightenment domestic violence doubling down emotional abuse empathy deficit evil sexy ladies evil SJWs excusing abuse gaslighting heartiste men who should not ever be with women ever PUA red pill taking pleasure in women's pain victim blaming

You'll be horrified to learn where one popular pickup guru has found some, er, dating tips

The Duluth Power and Control Wheel
The Duluth Power and Control Wheel

Heartiste – real name James Wiedmann – is a proudly racist, woman-hating “pickup artist” guru known for advocating manipulative and often quite abusive “game” techniques to give men the upper hand in relationships and in the dating market. These run the gamut from emotional abuse – what he calls “dread game,” an elaborate portfolio of gaslighting ploys to keep women feeling insecure and off-balance – to straightforward physical abuse – slapping women “when necessary” to assert “alpha male” dominance.

Now he’s suggesting that wannabe lotharios borrow some tips on how to “game” women from the Duluth Power and Control Wheel, a widely used violence intervention tool designed to fight abuse, not provide a blueprint for it.

The Duluth Wheel highlights some of the most prevalent kinds of abusive behavior. Heartiste mines its descriptions of abuse for dating tips, claiming to find in it “a few curious nuggets of anti-feminist truth about relationships and how to keep them going.”

In his recent post, Heartiste goes through some of the descriptions of abusive behavior on the Duluth Wheel – and recasts them as handy tools for would-be “alpha males.”

“make her feel bad and guilty” — reframing.

“play mind games” — that’s one way to provoke a vaginal gusher.

“smash things” — occasional bursts of anger, when justified, are cues of sexy male dominance and they do turn on women. …

“threaten to leave her” — dread game. …

“take her money” — aka make a woman feel like she’s invested in you. she’ll try harder to make it work.

“be the one to define men’s and women’s roles” — chicks dig a leader. and they also dig benevolently sexist men! …

“treat her like a servant” — 50 Shades of Gray has sold millions of copies. To women.

His followers are, if anything, even more enthusiastic about adopting these abusive tactics to their dating life.

“[T]hanks for the road map,” writes dog king. “[A] handy chart for aspiring alphas,” notes Laguna Beach Fogey, also an occasional commenter on The Spearhead. “Much Thanks CH,” adds Ang Aamer. “It’s posts like these that turn the Femi-Matrix Vag monologues into decipherable ideas we can use.”

One commenter calling himself maldek offers a personal testimonial, claiming to have used the tactics on the Duluth Wheel to keep his wife of 20 years on her toes:

This is a female wishlist indeed.
Take it word by word.

Most of the listed items are things I do on a regular base. I mean it. And for more than 20 years it is working. Wife is looking top 5% in her age group, 3 kids, good life.

IT DOES WORK!

PS: That is 200% true for the darker parts of this list, you know the points those white knights would want to burn you on stake for. These are magic.

A commenter by the name of J Fisc seconds this endorsement.

This is an instruction manual for how to keep your woman happy. My marriage was doing pretty shitty until I said ‘Fuck it’ and started acting ‘abusive’. At least half the things on this list I do regularly and she eats its up.

One reader calling himself zaltyskaralius explains a favorite technique he (allegedly) uses to anger and excite the women – sorry, girls — in his life:

In the theme of brilliant game moves that bring the moist looks of indignation from girls, one of my old friends: The “Touchdown”:

When a girl says something (incredibly) stupid, interrupt and ask her if she knows what “touchdown” means.

Ignore her lack of football knowledge, shake your head and proceed to tell her that it has another meaning, as you put your hand on her shoulder with a grin on your face. Ask her if she has ever heard of Down’s syndrome. Tell her that it’s a tradition in your friend circle, that once someone says something not-so-very-smart, you proceed to do a “Touch-Down”. If she doesn’t get it, do another “touchdown”.

Congratulations, you just got a “pass this shit-test and collect tingles” card for the particular girl. From that moment on, anytime she says anything you dislike or throws a shit test at you, all you will have to do is simply place your hand on her shoulder and give her a knowing look, every so often muttering “touchdown” under your breath. No effort, no thinking, just a little touch.

Great move for AMOG [Alpha Male of the Group] friends as well. Great move for everyone in the know.

Luckily I think the chance that he’s actually used this “great move” on anyone outside of his own imagination is roughly zero.

Heartiste seems to think that the Duluth Wheel was conjured up by some Social Justice Warrior on Twitter. Only one of his commenters – at least only one that I noticed – admits to knowing where it really comes from.

“They made me memorize that graphic in a class i had to take because a broad said i hit her,” writes monster221.

Needless to say, he seems not to have learned anything from that class, noting that the experience convinced him

that i should act however i want and let them come and go. … Lifes great when its onyour terms, fuck anybody who tells you how to handle your shit.

Somehow I suspect that the “broad” who says he hit her was telling the truth.

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Ellie
Ellie
6 years ago

I’d rage if I didn’t know how pathetic internet tough guy heartiste actually is in real life :p

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

@ ellie: rage. Some of his readers are figuring out how to actually pull this off.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago
lacerta viridis
lacerta viridis
6 years ago

I’d be balancing a tiny fedora on my skink’s head and taking pictures right now, if I weren’t pretty sure he’d bite me.

@kittehserf that’s… that’s amazing.

strivingally
6 years ago

If I recall correctly, don’t MRAs consider the Duluth model to be the pinnacle of mysandry ? I know that there is some “schism” between pua and MRAs but something tells me we wont be hearing much from them.

Which is why we all laugh derisively when the MRA crowd tries to use male DV survivors as human shields against claims their movement only exists to harm women. If they actually gave a fuck about male DV survivors – especially those in same-sex relationships – they’d encourage men to recognise signs of actual abuse, from themselves or others.

But that would involve helping people at the expense of their primary goal, which appears to be harming women. Awaiting evidence to the contrary.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

lacerta viridis, it is, isn’t it? I’ve been cracking up for years every time I see that pic. Though I suspect it’s just as well the Gorn hasn’t done a cover album. I doubt his singing could match the Boss’s!

Your skink sounds like a wise skink! 😀

AbsintheDexterous
AbsintheDexterous
6 years ago

But lots of people who aren’t abusers do it, too, and I don’t get why they think it’s fine.

*hangs head in shame*

I’m a toucher. I’ve mostly trained myself not to touch people, because I know that there’s many people who don’t like it, and if I accidentally slip I immediately remove my hand and apologize. I’ve never thought it fine to do though, just a quirk that I have that I work consciously on making sure that I’m not doing.

As for why, I can only answer for me, because I don’t know how other people who do it feel about it. I use my hands while speaking, I’m a serial gesturer and sometimes I put a hand on an arm or shoulder. I really mean nothing by it, it’s almost a subconscious thing for me, especially if I enjoy talking to a person and get caught up in a moment of conversation even if it’s an enjoyable conversation with a stranger. I try to tuck my hands in my armpits or pockets or hold a drink or something in my hand in an effort to discourage it. I’ll also back up from the person if I can. It’s not easy but through practice, I’m so much better than I used to be.

I will actually back away immediately if I see someone reaching out to touch me

Unfortunately I tend to just freeze up and hope they stop doing it, which isn’t particularly effective.

Seriously, you don’t have to make a joke about it, these work just fine, as I’ve had those reactions if I accidentally touched someone. If I’ve slipped and saw either of these reactions, I’d definitely apologize, remove my hand, and keep from doing it again. I’ve also had people do the “stare at my hand as I touch them” trick and it works as well. It pisses me off when jerks use the “oh I had no idea!” thing for touching people. Or people who keep doing it despite all of the above obvious cues and/or even told that the person they are touching doesn’t like it.

And I find it really odd because I hate the huggers. No, don’t hug me, that’s too much contact. We can shake hands, you can touch my arm or shoulder, but back the fuck off if you think you can hug me, unless I know you well. I’ll always hold out my hand for a handshake instead of a hug. I think that’s why I try not to touch people, because I know how annoying it is to have your personal boundary violated, so I at least put in the effort to stop and am aware that I shouldn’t be doing it.

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

I suspect that part of the reason why these guys say “Hey, everyone! [Insert abusive behavior here] is a totally awesome game technique; it will make the females love you!” is their complete and utter lack of empathy.

When a person is abused, they may (I don’t have the stats to say if it’s a common reaction, but I don’t think it’s uncommon) change their behavior and take actions to attempt to placate their abuser, in order to attempt to avoid further abuse. These assholes see the “oh god please don’t hurt me” behaviors and think “Hey, she’s doing things to try to keep me happy! This must means that she’s happy and likes this situation, because I’M happy and like this situation! Awesome!”

Now excuse me while I go join the ‘nope’ badger.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

McG, that reminded me of my favorite line from “I, Claudius”. The mark of adulthood for young men of the patrician class was donning the _toga virilis_. In one scene, a young man is telling his father that he will encompass his own revenge, because “I have put on my manly gown!”

These PUAs will apparently serially harass a score of women to find the one who, for whatever reason, will respond positively to their unpleasantness. Maybe she’d just made up her mind “I wanna get laid tonight, he just has to have brushed his teeth,” and he assumes it’s because his game is tight.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

I went to the link on “dread game,” and read the comments. Why? Well, I found this winner:

Gannon
The answer for finding a woman who will love you all your life is easy: find a teen girl between the age of 14-20. These are a woman’s binding years. The younger she is, the better. You may even be her first man. Women develop strong bonds to thhe first men they have sex with, specially if they are virgins. Let’s be realistic: if she is around 15, 16, you will be very special to her. She will listen to what you are telling to her. She will feel new experiences. Romancing a teen girl is the way to form a lifelong bond. That’s the reason why men marrying 15 year old women was the standard.

Let me just highlight my favorite phrase here:

Women develop strong bonds to thhe first men they have sex with, specially if they are virgins.

I’m trying to come up with a snarky comment in response to that, but I just don’t have the words.

Meanwhile, Ebil Ladybrainz has just graduated from Academie Le Tour, Summa Cum Laude, with a collection of anti-rape/domestic violence posters to her credit, which will hang, with honor, in the dormitory cafeteria.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

So how does this genius figure out how all those evil slutty mcslutsters manage *not* to get superglued to the first dude they have sex with?

jadebscarlett
6 years ago

Personally, Silurians are my manlizards of choice. Especially a certain lesbian silurian living in victorian london with her wife. 😛

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Women develop strong bonds to thhe first men they have sex with, specially if they are virgins.

No matter how many times you re-read this sentence it still doesn’t make sense due to the “words mean things” problem.

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

Especially a certain lesbian silurian living in victorian london with her wife. 😛

And the dresses, the DRESSES!

No matter how many times you re-read this sentence it still doesn’t make sense due to the “words mean things” problem.

You’d almost think he was acknowledging that women have sex with women, but that idea would require some sort of thinking on his part, and we know that ain’t happening.

Michael McG
Michael McG
6 years ago

VENUSIAN LIZARDPEOPLE!!!!!1!!!!11111!!!! ELEVENTY!!!!

icallmycatmrtb
icallmycatmrtb
6 years ago

Another person hanging out with the nope animals.

I can’t even describe how wrong the pua/mra crowd is. Just aaarrrggghhh.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Ok, was it Gannon or Heartiste advocating getting in a relationship up with a 15-year-old?
I was just wondering if it’s legal to advocate child sex abuse.

I try to read his site, but..it’s not so much that it triggers me..
It is that there is SO. MUCH. BULLSHIT. that my brain just kinda fails to compute at all the translating it has to do.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

I have no idea how the random up got all up in there…

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Well, these guys think that their getting it up should be all that’s required for a relationship to commence, so it works.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

Today, I went to visit a friend of mine, and during the course of the conversation, she mentioned that she had a relative whose husband beat her to death. Another relative was grateful that the Catholic church now allows for annulments, as her husband beat her on their wedding night. Then, there was the story about the woman who stayed with her abuser, because she simply had no resources for escape.

That’s all in ONE family.

I’m with that badger, too!

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

So, the reason that guy’s wife of 20 years stayed is most likely not that she’s happy and in love, but that she’s trapped and terrified. It’s not that she’s so much in love with him that makes her try hard to please him. It’s that she’s afraid of what he’ll do if she doesn’t please him.

This isn’t love. Not at all.

And worse, those three kids are learning that this is how it’s supposed to be. He sons will learn that they are supposed to treat women like that, and his daughters will learn that they deserve to be treated like that.

When his daughter comes home from her honeymoon, sporting cuts and bruises, is he going to cheer on his son-in-law? Because his daughter deserved it? Or will he come to his senses, and think, “My sweet daughter deserves better than that?”

Odds are, he will actually go route #1.

Oh, and those references to 50 Shades of Gray? I never read it, but I read in depth “Re-craps” of it. The protagonist’s father DID encourage Mr. Gray to punish her. Out of all the unrealistic stuff in that whole series, this is something that rings true.

Yes, you can break the cycle. CHEERS, LBT! That’s why we need to support the people who are being victimized, especially the younger ones, so that they can learn what they need to know to break that cycle of abuse. That’s why we need to be supportive of those people who say, “I am really not cut out to be a parent,” and not force the issue, as if they owe it to the world to have kids. That’s why we need to STOP abuse when we see it, and teach the abusers that it is NOT OK, and not some tool for the abuser’s enjoyment.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@LBT and Justabrowngirl – My Dad also broke the cycle. And he was firm on the issue that being abused is not an excuse to abuse others.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@Shaun DarthBatman Day

Does that mean that, in order to commit misandry, I must say, out loud (typing doesn’t count), that I hate all men? I could do that every day. No more educating assholes as to why they come off as abusive or, at least, abuse positive. No more teaching men that women don’t like to be harassed. No more anything but waking up each morning to say “I hate all men”! That’s gonna free up so much time.

I think all you have to do to commit misandry is be a feeeeemallllle and not have sex with them. Everything else you do is just gravy.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@cloudia – not only the best dog, but the best brain bleach! I totally cracked up!

Thanks so much!

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Anastasia does a lot of “flushing” in that book, and it’s not the good kind. (Except for once, where she flushes in the bathroom at the memory of an encounter, and thanks to the bad writing, you’re not quite sure which kind it is.)

I enjoyed reading the re-craps, as well as listening to the dramatic readings, but I think this just sums it all up so very nicely.

ROFL!

Seriously, though, from what actual text I have read or listened to from these books, I’d have to say that the only “gina tingles” I’d ever get from it are an unintentional consequence of the continual twitching that comes from seeing the English language mangled in such a disgusting manner.

Consenting ADULTS, people! Not consenting language! English never signed the BDSM contract, so stop spanking it.

As to why it’s such a hit, I really couldn’t say. I know at least 5 people who bought it simply so they could poke fun at it, but that did boost the sales, anyway. It’s like when we go read the originals that David so kindly links (to prove his veracity, as the MRAs will otherwise accuse him of lying… wait. They do that anyway). We just wind up boosting the number of clicks.

Fantasies? I understand that. And if it stays in the realm of fantasy, and role-playing, then it’s fine. But fantasies and role-playing are NOT examples of what we want in real life.

Alais
6 years ago

This is a female wishlist indeed.
Take it word by word.

Most of the listed items are things I do on a regular base. I mean it. And for more than 20 years it is working. Wife is looking top 5% in her age group, 3 kids, good life.

IT DOES WORK!

PS: That is 200% true for the darker parts of this list, you know the points those white knights would want to burn you on stake for. These are magic.

He must mean that life has been good for him because she’s now too browbeaten to actually bring up things that are bothering her because she knows that he’ll just dismiss her concerns and belittle her. And she’s afraid to be less than perfect because of how he’ll act if she does. God, it’s almost like they don’t care how she’s feeling as long as he’s happy!

“treat her like a servant” — 50 Shades of Gray has sold millions of copies. To women.

To be fair, I do think that E.L. James made a horrible mistake and confused DV flier that someone handed her was actually a guide on how to write a romantic hero.

alaisvex
alaisvex
6 years ago

However, going off of the last, people do fantasize about things that they would not want in real life because in real life, those things would be painful or life-threatening or upsetting or any other sort of unpleasant thing.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

As Shakespeare said – Good wombs have born bad sons.

Also, re: being abused is not an excuse for becoming an abuser – in Harry Potter, Dumbledore apologizes to Harry, for “forgetting what it feels like to be young.” A child can’t understand what it is like to be old, but an old person once WAS young, and so he KNOWS.

So, when a person who was raised with abuse chooses to follow that path and become an abuser, when they grow up, they are doing it with the full knowledge of how their victims feel! This just makes it so much worse, somehow.

I feel sympathy for the victim they once were, but no sympathy for the abuser they chose to become.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

Women develop strong bonds to the first men they have sex with, specially if they are virgins.

“They” refers to the men? It’s the only reading that makes sense.
So if you want to pick up chicks, make sure to hold on to your virginity, guys.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

All this talk of “bonding” a woman to them as their ultimate goal is really creepy and just reveals their fundamental insecurity. They don’t think women will spend any time around them if said women have any agency or power whatsoever. They just don’t seem to be able to imagine a woman showing affection to them unless she’s forced to. But, they absolutely require women (even if only as sources of man-points) in order to feel good about themselves at all. Combine the need and the insecurity with a massive lack of empathy and you get all the elaborate mind control schemes and abuse cheer leading.

To me, the whole thing reeks of a remarkable degree of self-hate. At least that’s one target of their hate that deserves it.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@blahlistic

Something else…It occurred to me recently how crucial a detail this was. Neither of my parents struck me in front of the other or in public.
So…they could control themselves. I had never reasoned that out before.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Both of my parents lost control a time or two. My mother once spanked my brother with a toilet-brush (first thing that came to hand), leaving little red pricks all over his behind, after he smeared his own poop on the carpet (after a very. bad. day, and she snapped).

When it happened, they ‘fessed up, and apologized. Because it was a real loss of control, not controlled abuse. And they learned from it. They tried to find out what the trigger was, and avoid it or get rid of it, or alter it in some way so that they wouldn’t lose control again.

An example of losing control, then fixing the issue: My two sisters once got into a real, screaming fight. I listened to both sides, and decided the best thing to do was to immediately install a spice rack. Lo, and behold! The fighting stopped, because the trigger was eliminated. They apologized, and we had peace once more, which lasted for many months, until another trigger appeared. My grown siblings and I don’t fight very often.

I can forgive someone for losing control. They’re human, and humans respond to triggers. Most of the time, if you fix the trigger, you can avoid future unpleasantness on that score.

But if they are only “losing control” in very controlled circumstances, then it’s an act. The thing is, the people capable of such acts are the same people who can then brazen it out when someone calls Child Protective Services, leaving the child trapped with a vengeful, vindictive abuser.

If I had to choose between someone who would beat me in public, and someone who only beat me in private, I’d rather have the one who beat me in public. I’d be more likely to get real, useful help, for one thing. For another thing, I’d be more likely to be able to forgive it, thinking it really was a loss of self-control.

Obviously, I’d rather have neither. But better an honest abuser than a lying one. Because when I have a serious problem with someone, I really, Really, REALLY hate to have the people I go to for help tell me that it’s all my imagination, or it isn’t as serious as I’m making it out to be.

So, on that score, Heartiste and his ilk can at least be said to give honest warning. That’s the best thing I can say for them, though. Yikes!

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

OT – My kitten decided to hide in the oven this morning.

Don’t worry – it’s a solar oven (cardboard box and aluminum foil), and the thing was inside, so no solar-ovening going on. To her, it was just a shiny box.

I wish I had gotten a picture.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@cassandrakitty

Also, notice how anger is more likely to be seen as a problem that needs to be solved (not by addressing the cause of the anger, but by becoming less angry) when it manifests in people perceived as female?

UGH! THIS! And then, a lot of the time, they ask if you’re on your period, or PMS, because obviously, you couldn’t have any REAL reason to be upset. It’s only hormones! UGHHH!!!

No, I’m not on my period, or PMS. This is a legitimate complaint, world!

Glen H
Glen H
6 years ago

The abused becoming the abuser thing shits me too. I can understand it to a degree in some cases- the older boy who molested me was almost certainly coached into it by his grandfather from what I know now, but at the age (13) that he did it he certainly wasn’t a responsible adult.
And the fact that women are massively more likely to be abused than males, yet massively less likely to abuse tends to sink that idea too!
It really comes across a special pleading by people who should know better, and makes abused people feel like you are constantly under suspicion that you will start abusing others too.
Hope that came off as coherent, find it hard to keep some emotional detachment when writing this!

mariangela
mariangela
6 years ago

Excuse me for the interruption, but JohntheOther is starting a kickstarter to send money to Palestine for nuclear weapons. He’s asking for $100,000.

Go to youtube, JohntheOther, and look for “Nukes for Palestine”.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

WTH: And now I think we need a nope llama.

You have to wonder what sheep think of llamas – “Oh hell, here comes that hopping mutant again – he freaks me the fuck out!”

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

I used to have a co-worker (a middle-aged woman), who had the temerity to express her anger. She was put down for it.

So, she posted an article on her cube wall, which showed that women who express anger are often judged more harshly than men who express anger, as the angry men are believed to have a real issue, but the angry women are simply seen as trouble-makers, and disciplined, accordingly.

Guess what? She got in trouble for posting the article on her cube wall.

When she snapped, I didn’t blame her one bit. Don’t worry. She didn’t “go postal.” She “took an extended leave.” Fortunately, our health insurance paid for that sort of thing. Thank goodness!

When she came back, she was much happier, for a while. And then, the triggers that had angered her in the first place, never having been resolved, triggered her again, and…

Had it been a man complaining about these issues, it would have gone differently, I’m sure. She had valid complaints.

Fibinachi
6 years ago

Oh, I’m so glad we have 50 Shades of Grey. It means people sometimes use that as an example of the useless artistic sensibilities of women rather than Sex and the City. Warms my heart, really, means there’s a bit of progress in the world.

( The Duluth model was compiled in, what, 1981? That’s 30-ish years ago. Did no one think to google this, but just kind of haphazardly assume it was a new graphic created by in concordance with a hashtag campaign on Twitter? The world at their fingertips and googling “Duluth Wheel” is too hard. Sigh )

Anyway, I’m with Cassandrakitty on this one. It’s sort of hilarious(ly sad).

The Duluth Wheel has problems and as a model it assumes that women are always the victims of domestic violence. That is, as a model, it hard-codes men as the users of violence and women as the sufferers of it. So you take a group of men who are for the self improvement and bettering of men and you show them this model that contains proof of their wild anti-feminist families that all violence is done by men and you leave them to have an argument about it and the conclusion they arrive at when talking about this model where violence is bad and performed by men on suffering women and the conclusion they arrive at is that it is a good advice for maintaining relationships with women.

It’s just… that’s… Normally I’d argue that “men can be the sufferers of domestic violence too, and we should support everyone” or some such, but when a group of men looks at a model that offers the tactics of abusers, a model that explicitly in its theoretical underpinnings assume men are always abusers, and their take-away upon reviewing all these various abusive strategies is: “Oh yeah! Yeah, that’s a thing I do, and I should do more of it, because I want to get laid” what can you really say?

Oh, anyhow, at least this proves how long it takes the manosphere to catch up with feminist thought – approximately 30 years.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Excuse me for the interruption, but JohntheOther is starting a kickstarter to send money to Palestine for nuclear weapons. He’s asking for $100,000.

Wow…That is so freaking asinine I can’t even…
Also, you couldn’t even make a freaking bio-weapons lab with that little, FFS.

Now if it was money to rebuild and re-supply the hospitals Israel blew up in this last incursion, THAT I would donate money to…if I had money I could spare, which I don’t ATM.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@Policy of Madness – Some people really like being touched, and they figure other people like it, too.

Perhaps some day (if not already), you may find someone you enjoy sharing touch with. Doubtless, that will be someone who respects your right to say “No,” any time, for any reason, even if you’ve been in a long-standing touching relationship. Sometimes, even with people we know, trust, and love, we’re simply not in the mood. And that’s OK. We have bodily autonomy.

If the person is not generally abusive, and they reach out to touch you, it’s probably because they like touching, and project that onto you. “If I like it, everyone must like it!” And they simply have not learned that *you are not them,* and that you have bodily autonomy. These people can be taught, though. Good luck.

I’m guilty of projection. All too often, when I am in the company of two people I know, I just *assume* that because I know both of them, they must know each other, and completely forget to make introductions. When I was a kid, and still very fluent in Dutch, I would break into Dutch, confident that those around me would understand, because “I know it, so they must, too!”

Not so much, any more, but it took a long time to learn.

Solipsism sucks.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

I was really traumatized in high school, and for six months after graduation, I could not bear to be touched by anyone who wasn’t family. Except for ballroom dancing. My mind did not connect ballroom dancing with abuse, so I could dance away, in a complete stranger’s arms, but let my dear, sweet, angelic roommate hug me? NOPE!

It took a long time to get to the point where I even wanted to touch other people, and even longer to allow them to touch me. I have, however, reached that point, so YAY!

I have found that handshakes are really handy in fending off hugs. IF you can stand the hand-shake, that is. Pre-emptivly sticking out my hand for a handshake stopped quite a few unwanted hugs, without hurting anyone’s feelings. Of course, there’s always the risk they’ll hug you, anyway, but some people are just that determined. The vast majority of people were stopped by the handshake.

However, I am also the first one to say, “It’s OK,” when someone doesn’t want to be touched. My nephew, for example. While some people will insist that children MUST hug their relatives, especially when the families are parting, and everyone else is hugging everyone else, I ask for the hugs, and when my nephew went through a phase of not wanting to hug me, I just smiled, and said, “That’s OK. You get to choose.” I told him I love him, and respect his right to bodily autonomy. Now he’s happy to hug me, although sometimes he’s just not in the mood. When he does hug me, it is REAL.

Also, because we, as a family, have respected his right to say “No,” he is better able to say “No,” and enforce that “No,” with other people. He’s less likely to become a victim of someone who (like they said to me) will say that he has no right to refuse.

I’m trying to teach that lesson to all of my younger relations, and to teach them that if they are in a situation where they are being bullied, harassed, or abused, that they can come to me and I will 1) BELIEVE them, and 2) fight for them.

On that note, my Dad had a failing – he loved to tickle small children, and did not stop, even when they asked him to. He tickled my nephew until he wet his pants! So, I told him that next time Grampa tried to tickle him, he should climb up on Grampa’s lap, and THEN wet his pants.

Grampa stopped tickling him after that.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@kitteh –

Or fedoras! They could have moustaches and fedoras! They could be Johnny Depp lizards!

OH! I want to see that! .jpg, please.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

Gorn in the U.S.A. is now added to my Sims Painting list. Thanks!

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

I…or…um…one of the kids pushing up from under me…actually touched someone at work on the shoulder, as we were hurrying past her on the stairs to get the keys. Just out of beatific love for everything…she’s 6, and was dead for 32 years.
People seem to be drawn to me/her when she’s out. She kinda radiates.

I don’t usually do that.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@mariangela

Excuse me for the interruption, but JohntheOther is starting a kickstarter to send money to Palestine for nuclear weapons. He’s asking for $100,000.

Go to youtube, JohntheOther, and look for “Nukes for Palestine”.

What????

My first thought was, that’s one cheap nuclear weapon. I blame my pain pills.

But, seriously, WHATT??? Who does THIS? WHYYYY?

He’s not getting my clicks, though. Thanks for the warning.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

John the Other (on the video Mariengala identified):

I have come up with a solution to end this seemingly endless war. This seemingly endless conflict.

Oh do tell, John. I am breathless with anticipation.

It’s a really simple solution. Give Palestine nuclear weapons.

Yes, that is a simple solution. A horrible solution, but I’ll give you points for “simple.”

We’re going to have Kickstater.

For nuclear weapons. For reals.

Now, in terms of the logistics of doing this…

Baldrick, am I not mistaken, or are the words “I have a cunning plan” marching with undeserved confidence in the direction of this conversation?

…obviously, Palestine does not have the infrastructure necessary to maintain a nuclear industry, to maintain a, you know, nuclear weapons launch capability…

Yes, I think we can back up now and say, “Never mind.”

So much like anyone who wants a piece of high technology but doesn’t want to actually run that technology themselves, I’m going to use the analogy of a webserver.

Translation: I don’t know a thing about nuclear weapons. But I’m going to blab about something I do know and hope you won’t notice that they don’t correlate at all.

Hosting blather, blah blah blah, boring boring, huge bowl of porridge….

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..

The nuclear weapon should be hosted in some neighboring nation.

Yes, a Kickstarter will achieve this miracle of International Relations where another nation kindly agrees to hold onto some nukes for the Palestinians.

Now, the obvious choice seems to be Iran.

I think that Freedonia or Sylvania would be better choices. They’re fictional, making the scenario far more likely to occur.

Iran also wants nuclear weapons and this is a good excuse to get them.

John the Other wants to arm Iran with nuclear weapons.

A lot of people are going to say, “Well, if you give Palestine a nuclear weapon, they’re going to fire it, and it will be millions and possibly billions of people dead.”

“A lot of people” in other words being all people smarter than John the Other.

No, that’s the argument of the only person with a gun denying anyone else the right to own a gun.

Or the argument of someone saying, “Giving Iran nuclear weapons is a grandly stupid idea.”

Europe, if you look at it, has a history of war.

Hmmm, this is an amazing observation. John the Other steps up his history game here.

All of the tiny nations of Europe were constantly at war with one another. Well, when they started getting nuclear weapons in the very late ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s, suddenly they all wanted to make peace.

I… wha? John, you don’t know where Europe is, do you? Or what happened there. But, you are right, “Europe has a history of war.” You can cling to that one correct statement.

Nobody wants to start a war with a nation that has nukes. Nukes are a great peacekeeping weapon

Hi, Reagan Era! John The Other has come back to visit you. Please keep him.

That’s why I want to give a nuke to Palestine.

No, you want to give a nuke to Iran.

The Kickstarter is probably going to be for about a hundred grand.

Rim-shot!

It’s not going to be enough to get a nuclear weapon….

Yeah, because they run for about $150,000 on eBay. Money is really the only obstacle toward getting a nuclear weapon. Also, thanks for admitting you’re just wasting our time.

…but it is going to be enough to do all of the research, analyze the logistics, figure out what the capabilities are, who we need to contact, and so on.

I’ll gladly do all that for $10. You will be surprised at my findings on the “logistics” of your plan.

Incidentally, I’m a Canadian.

Are you a fan of Rob Ford?

If you’re an Iranian living in Vancouver, BC, I want to get a hold of you.

You know, even Iran is not desperate enough to get nuclear weapons to want to waste time listening to John the Other.

Fibinachi
6 years ago

Thank you, Cassie’s Major Domo, that was… something. A unique experience, certainly.

No, that’s the argument of the only person with a gun denying anyone else the right to own a gun.

I’m going to quote the Scottish now:

“Nuclear weapons of war are an affront to basic decency”

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

Blink blink.

Blink.

ummmmm…

Thanks, Cassie’s Major Domo for watching that drivel, so we don’t have to.

I think my favorite part is the bit where he believes that if we place Palestine’s nuclear weapon in Iran, Iran will just “hold it” for them, and not claim it as their own.

“Oh, we want to shoot a nuclear weapon. And we have one right here! But, awwww, we can’t shoot that weapon. It belongs to Palestine.”

I foresee problems.

“Yo! Palestine! We wanna shoot this missile we’re holding for you, OK?”

“No! Don’t do that!”

“Well, shucks, Palestine. If you won’t give us permission to shoot this weapon, then we’ll just have to… I know! We’ll point this thing at YOU until you give us the permission we want!”

“Wait, Iran! You can’t do that!”

“Sure we can! We’re the server masters, so we have ALL the passwords!”

“Darnit! I knew we should have encrypted that file! We surrender! Don’t shoot us, Iran!”

“OK, but now we own you. If Israel wants to take you, they’ll have to march through Iran first!”

“Really? AWESOME!”

“Wait…”

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

I would like to point out that aside from skipping John the Other’s intro (In which he says, “I once had a blog and wrote about politics”) and skimming the 30 secs talking about web servers, I cut nothing from my transcription.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

I wonder if JohnTheOtter knows that the Palestinians are Sunni and the Iranians are Shia?

Oh, who am I kidding. He doesn’t understand the basics of European history, why should he know a thing about the Middle East?