The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks!
If you hope to make it through the day without losing all hope in humanity, you may not wish to read the following thoughts on Ray and Janay Rice from our old friend from The Spearhead, W.F. Price.
I know people instinctively and reflexively sympathize with the victim of a brutal attack, but …
Yeah, I’m giving you all one more chance to back out of this right now, because we all know that nothing good is going to come after that “but.”
… there comes a time when one has to ask whether or not the victim bears some responsibility for putting herself in this situation. Does Janay really think that will be the last time Rice gives her a beatdown? And even if she does, what statement is she making in marrying a man willing to treat her like that?
The statement is clear: she thinks the violence is a reasonable tradeoff for whatever she gets in return for her relationship, whether it’s sexual gratification, status or money. …
But feminists would have us believe that domestic violence is a patriarchal imposition, despite the fact that married women in patriarchal families suffer the lowest rates of domestic violence of all partnered women in the United States.
Price cites a previous post of his as evidence for this claim, though to declare it wildly misleading would be an understatement. While domestic violence rates among married couples are lower than among cohabiting couples, this isn’t a clean comparison; as Joanna Pepin notes on The Society Pages, it ignores “that selection out of cohabitation and into marriage – and selection out of marriage through divorce – creates an apples-and-oranges comparison between these two groups.” It’s also worth pointing out that as marriage rates have fallen over the last several decades, domestic violence rates have fallen as well.
In fact, study after study after study after study find that domestic violence rates tend to be highest amongst those with traditional – that is, patriarchal – values.
Let’s let Price continue, as we haven’t even gotten to the worst stuff yet.
Maybe feminists think the patriarchy has secretly implanted little chips in women’s brains that lead them to seek out men who will beat them up.
Somehow, instead of choosing granola-crunching lesbians, these women make a beeline for musclebound athletes, beefy bikers and ghetto thugs.
How many different types of bigotry can he fit into one sentence? I count three.
But maybe it isn’t the patriarchy. Maybe there’s something about female sexuality that defies feminist ideals. Perhaps it’s kind of a chaotic, anarchic thing that doesn’t pay attention to pronouncements about what’s right and proper.
Maybe, just maybe, the only way to really cut down on intimate violence would be to restrict women’s sexual freedom.
Well, aside from the fact that this is, uh, an utterly appalling thing to say, particularly in response to an incident in which a man knocked out his then-fiancee in an elevator, it’s also completely wrong. Indeed, studies show the opposite – that the more control women have over their lives, the less domestic violence there is.
Oh, but Price stops just short of explicitly advocating that men should be put in charge of women’s sexuality.
Would I advocate for that? No. As adults, women should make their own decisions in that regard. However, to blame men in general for the results of women’s sexual decisions is absolutely unacceptable.
As terrible as Price’s post is, the comments from The Spearhead’s regulars are, as usual, even worse.
According to the fellow who calls himself TFH,
The biggest error that Western Civ ever made was assuming that women could be ‘adults’. …
The woman’s brain-gina interface is obsolete. She is programmed to get gina tingles from men who were suited to excel in the world of pre-historic times, while she is programmed to be revulsed by the man who would have fared poorly then (the introverted STEM guys of today).
One cannot fully understand why women write love letters to serial killers and continue to get back with violent boyfriends, without also realizing the hate that women have for tech nerds, and how there is an obsessive push to divert tech money to women (i.e. they hate that money is appearing in the hands of men their gina does not tingle for).
Again, the brain-gina interface of women is obsolete. That is the most complete explanation.
I should point out that TFH – also known as The Fifth Horseman – is considered one of the leading intellectual lights of the Men’s Rights movement, with his loopy 2010 manifesto The Misandry Bubble winning praise from everyone from A Voice for Men’s favorite therapist Dr. Helen to self-promoting British MRA Mike Buchanan to crusty old Counter-Feminist Fidelbogen. Oh, and WF PRice, too.
Back in The Spearhead’s comment section, meanwhile, Eric J Schlegel trots out some evo-psych just-so stories to buttress a similarly backwards conclusion:
Women get the ‘gina tingle from the alpha male because, from an evolutionary perspective, those are the genes that contribute to survival. Trouble is, those same sociopathic thugs are not at all any use as protector and provider, so she takes the results of her selective breeding, along with her black eye, and finds a beta schlub provider to help raise them. … [P]erhaps others here have similar stories where female aquaintances chose assholes in their hormoned youth, only to settle for a nice guy with 3-4 thug bastards in tow. Women such as the one you’ve talked about here are those who have not overcome their animal instincts, every bit as much as the men who put them in ICU. The authority that a man used to have over his daughters as well as his sons used to act as somewhat of a check on this social dynamic, but we all know what happened to that…
I think it’s safe to say that if you ever run across a dude who refers to “‘ginas” instead of “vaginas” you should run as far away as your legs will take you.
Someone called Stoltz concludes
This is what happens when a society tells women they are equal – no,no – superior – to men. Movies and TV shows that show a female character acting like a hellish b*tch, goings around kicking everyone’s rearends. … Feminist and a feminist-backed government who tell women they have no responsibilities, and all the rights, so they believe they can do whatever they please to whoever (of course, the ‘whoever’ are men).
Meanwhile, another commenter suggests that the only solution is “to repeal the civil rights laws that prevent people from keeping ‘those’ people out.” Yet another declares that “Ray Rice triggers my gaydar pretty hard” and suggests that Janay “looks like a tranny.”
Price himself shows up with some comments even worse than his post, arguing that abused women stick with their abusers
because it feels good. Having a dominant man is a pleasurable feeling for a lot of women. It’s like a shot of dope for a heroin addict, who knows that he’s taking a big risk each time he injects the drug into his arm, but can’t stop himself from doing so anyway.
Just a couple days ago there was a power outage where I live due to some construction/maintenance in the area. I had to go to a nearby hotspot to do some work online and so did a few neighbors. One of my neighbors was an ordinary, middle-aged woman. She left her phone on speaker for some reason, and she got a call from her man that I heard as clear as day. He called, and then when she didn’t pick up immediately I could hear him yelling at her in a threatening manner for not answering promptly. Then, the guy demanded she get power of attorney over her mother so he could drain the old lady’s bank account, and when she raised reasonable objections to it he was insistent and angry. I was just shaking my head, but this mild-mannered, very plain 40-something white lady looked positively radiant upon receiving this kind of violent attention from her thuggish, scumbag boyfriend.
This is what English teachers like to call an “unreliable narrator.”
This. I am constantly pointing out sexism in media to my kids, and countering this fantasy whenever friends and family unthinkingly spout it out at them. It always boggles me that I have to point out (over and over again) that a person can have a full and happy life with or with out a partner.
Hugs and good thoughts for every abuse survivor, if they’re wanted.
Some of the stories here are really driving home how much reality is the utter opposite of what MRAs claim it is.
Responding to Anon2, just because zie’s so silly:
I am one woman who would be honored to be seen with David Futrelle in public. So you’re wrong.
Also, I just saw a bunch of comments about how handsome/cute David is on another thread where you can see his picture. Probably at least some of those commenters are women. So I think you’re waaaaaaaaaaaaay wrong.
When will Manboobz learn that the reason for his failure with women (and his financial poverty) are because :
1) He doesn’t understand that women hate men who agree with feminism.
2) He is fat and smelly.
3) He has no career.
Others have pointed out lots of your wrongness already, but I was just wondering how you think you know David is smelly. Can you smell people over the Internet?
Blockquote sacrifice toward the end there.
“I think it’s safe to say that if you ever run across a dude who refers to “‘ginas” instead of “vaginas” you should run as far away as your legs will take you.”
Unless he’s talking about a group of women named “Gina.” Then calling them vaginas would be very rude.
My ex kind of convinced me I was too incompetent and mentally ill to care for myself, and she did this by trying to “help” me do anything and everything.
The thing is, I don’t think she was ever able to understand how her behavior gaslighted me into thinking she saw me as totally incompetent to do much, or why it smacked of a parent/child interaction. She has real issues with theory-of-mind. As in she doesn’t understand how other humans think at all, and she doesn’t understand how her words and acts affect them very much.
But I don’t think she really wants to understand other people.
When I said of her behavior “This hurts me and I need it to stop,” she told me why I was wrong to feel hurt. I kept trying to explain why it was hurtful, as if I could just say it in exactly the right way she’d finally get it.
It’s kind of crazymaking when someone who “loves” you continues to do things that hurt you when they are told that they are hurting you.
She’d end up getting frustrated and shouting at me, and I would blame myself for all of it. I thought that I could not live without her, so I self-injured a lot to manage things. I had a whole menu of suicide plans.
…She wanted control. She didn’t realize how much controlling me was hurting me…at least that’s the charitable explanation.
What is Anon2 even TALKING about? David seems like an awesome guy to hang out with. Also, he has cats! That’s a guaranteed awesome time.
I would, however, be completely embarrassed to be seen with Anon2 in public.
Alais, that blog about Roosh was hilarious. He’s even more of a loser than I thought. I enjoyed seeing the eye-rolling over Roissy and his idiocy too – one commenter calling his writing a metaphor puree. 😀
And evidently several Raven’s players have told reporters they are dedicating their win to Ray Rice. He’s a great guy, says one. A model man, says another, while admitting Rice made a mistake.
No. He committed a violent assault. At least one, who knows what else has happened when there weren’t cameras on him?
Well done, Ravens players, well done.
I got so mad I dropped my /sarcasm tag. Going for a walk now.
But, oraclenine, Ray Rice is a good guy to OTHER GUYS….that’s apparently the only thing that matters to these kinds of men. It’s ok. I am just as angry.
I would like for once, to be surprised by a news story where guys say things like “Yeah, hitting her was 100% wrong.” And then just. shut. up.
sporkle
The Spearhead has very much fallen out of favor with the mainstream MRM, as you well know. They now most represent an alt-right perspective.
@Puddleglum
I agree. I spent 2+ years being single and learning to be happy on my own. It took that long to break down all the crap that I had accumulated from the media over the years. I wasted so much time thinking that things would be so much better if I could just find a guy. Ideas like that are implanted at such a young age (just look at Disney princess movies) that they are extremely difficult to overcome. Bravo to you for teaching your kids that they can be happy with or without a partner.
Hey everyone, Woody’s back! Hi Woody!
@Policy of Madness
Actually, because of X-inactivation, the Aa girls would probably die, too. Women are stripy (no, really – there’s an informative youtube video I won’t link because it’ll automatically embed).
AA girls will inactivate one X chromosome, leaving them to express only A.
Aa girls will inactivate one X chromosome, at random, in striped patterns, leaving them to express only A in some parts of their body and only a in others. Chances are if A is lethal when expressed throughout the body, it’ll be lethal when expressed over 50% of it. The best-case scenario is that half of the Aa girls will, if there’s some very specific action for A being lethal.
Not sure how that would affect the calculations, because I don’t have your patience to work it out.
@Woody
*Bzzz. Warwick, Queex*
‘No true Scotsman’, Jeremy.
Correct. You have 3 bonus questions on the subject of ‘Shut Up, Woody’.
Shut up, Woody.
Shut up, Woody.
Woody is an inspiration. Against terrifying odds, he has persevered, and now he has once again earned his place at the table.
Shut up, Woody.
On the subject of Savage – I loathe him enough that I’ll only rarely hate-read him. Like cloudiah said, the whole GGG thing is basically coercive, however he denies it. It’s inherently so. After all, what does it mean to be “game”? It means there’s some apprehension, reluctance, or outright fear they’re being asked, or pressured, to overcome. That, to me, has absolutely no place in sexual matters. It says something about a person who’s willing to put their partner through that just so they can do some sexual act or another.
Or there’s the time Savage was telling a rape victim she was selfish for not wanting to have sex with her husband, which was triggering her, although she was okay having it with her boyfriend (it was a poly relationship). No, she was meant to be servicing husband, regardless of what it did to her.
The whole idea that someone *should* be having sex, *should* be attracted to a person, group, activity, whatever, that they don’t want, is just more of the same rapey bullshit women are forever bombarded with.
::spits::
Flying Mouse, LOL!
Last night I spent an hour explaining gamergate to my parents. Both were horrified but my Dad in particular. He just couldn’t wrap his head around why some men would be that way. Then my Mom said something about the NFL and Rice. I can get very sarcastic at times so I went into a big long explanation, talking as if I was this guy and explaining to them about how all of this was our fault because our ‘gina tingles’ and we don’t have the brain capacity to overcome this ‘gina tingling’
It was horrifyingly hysterical as I explained that yes Mom and Dad there are men still out there that think this way.
It got even funnier when my Dad said that he was now thinking of how he could explain this ‘gina tingling’ theory to the men at his church coffee time this am. Most are seniors and most have are in or were in 30+ year marriages. “So you know what my daughter told me last night?” lol He said now he just wants to say the words ‘gina tingling’ and see the reaction.
I love my Dad.
Another reprehensible response: Fox News. Brian Kilmeade made a joke saying that the “lesson learned” was “take the stairs,” and the very next day, a female guest declared that Janay Rice “knocked herself out” by landing on the railing after the punch, and that we were being unfair to Ray Rice.
I’m so happy for and proud of the all the survivors in this thread. I hope everyone is in a much better place now.
When I was with my own emotionally abusive dirtball, I stayed long past the point where I was happy. Part of it was denial. He only grabs my chin and turns me to face him because he has something important to say! I can’t explain why he thinks it’s all right to hold me in a bear hug when I’m trying to leave an argument, but I’ll just pretend it never happened! Part of it was low self-esteem; I’d met the fella on the rebound from my first “real” (ie, sexual) relationship, and I felt like damaged goods and was grateful that a godly boy would care for me.
I think the biggest part of it was just sheer, pigheaded stubbornness. I was smart and capable, I could make a storybook relationship happen! My friends were golden about the whole thing. They were supportive, kind, and as inclusive as the dude and I would allow. My mom, however… she was a different story. I swear that most of the reason I tried to force things to work was because she spent so much time sweetly knocking my relationship, my intelligence, and my agency. If you know the song “Mother Know Best” from the Disney movie Tangled, then you have the idea of what weekends were like at our house. Mom’s badgering and benevolent belittling (I was so trusting! So naive! It wasn’t my fault that l was being so stupid!) took an inclination to make things right and turned it into a quest to make my swampy relationship into happy sunny green field full of bunnies and daisies. It also didn’t help matters that my mother has her own control issues, and that with every one of her talks there was an undercurrent of “He’s running your life! That’s not right, because *I* should be running your life!”
I can’t tell you when I decided that I’d had enough. I’ve mentioned on other threads that he was pretty deep into a kind of mainstream version of the Christian Patriarchy movement. The realization came slowly that if I married this guy (which was where it was going) he was going to devote our lives to breaking me down into what he wanted. He felt that he had a mandate from God to make it happen. He’d already started the process, and any time I resisted his diktats there were tears and recriminations and Bible verses and threats of damnation. All I can remember now is that I was suddenly DONE. And that I spent about two months trying to dial things back and slowly extricate myself. I was afraid that one or both of us was going to get hurt if I tried to exit swiftly. I’m still pretty sure that the only reason I was allowed to get free was because my dad threatened to call the police once the soft stalking began. The whole “woman is under the protection of man” thing worked out for me in that case; my “owner” had spoken, and so my prospective owner had to gracefully back out. Blech. And good riddance.
TL,DR: Long-ass story about my own manipulative jerk, and the same thing a lot of other, more pithy people have said on the thread: people are complicated, and so are their relationships. Major, major kudos to everyone who can find their way out. And major, major kudos to anyone who can find a way to survive while they’re still in.