I don’t usually bother to read the comments on Chateau Heartiste; making it through Heartiste’s own florid yet turgid prose is exhausting enough. But after skimming a recent post of his on the increasing historical fatness of British women, I happened to glance down at the comments, only to see a discussion of the comparative anatomy of female humans and deer that was so odd and creepy I felt obligated to bring it to you all.
Brace yourself, because the following might just ruin your breakfast:
Ewwwwww.
I’m pretty sure that guy’s hunting license should be taken away from him. And if there were sex licenses for human beings, well, all three of these guys should lose those as well.
Think how they’d freak if they saw all those medieval beauties with their fecund bellies and small, round breasts!
Very true, Kitteh. They would positively flip. Small breasts were considered more desirable for wealthy women as large breasts were often associated with breastfeeding and that was left to wet nurses. I think that’s the case. I could be wrong. And let’s not forget the Venus of Willendorf. No. Can’t have that.
More fairy tell fucked upness:
In some versions of Snow White, she was only 7 years old.
In some versions of Sleeping Beauty, the prince rapes and impregnates her while she aleeps. Afterwards the prince’s mom tries to have her killed.
In some versions of Red Riding Hood, she flirts the wolf. It’s not so much stranger danger, more like slut shaming.
I learned all this from the Annotated Grimm Brothers edited by Maria Tatar. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this stuff. There’s apparently a Hans Christian Anderson edition too.
Oooh, thanks WWTH, that’s going on my wishlist. Probably the Anderson one, too, or maybe on my gifts-for-husbutt list. That man does love him some Anderson.
There’s also a “Classic Fairy Tales” version. All the books, all the books for meeeeee <3
@Lea – Yup. I was figuring the only deer these guys ever get close to is the teal variety.
I also think it’s interesting that Cinderella exists with different names in European, Asian and African folklore. I believe the oldest known version is Chinese. Traders must have picked it up and spread it?
It is fascinating to follow the paths of designs and stories. Most traveled by boat.
I LOVE THE VENUS OF WILLENDORF!
Yeah, it just makes so much sense, you know, that the first known statue was of some figure the artist just hated, loathed, and despised, because people ALWAYS put time and effort into recreating the things they hate.
It couldn’t possibly be that the artist actually found a fat woman beautiful.
Oh, yeah, those old fairy tales were really dark, yeah.
Snow White was 7. SEVEN.
I’m finding fairy tale talk more interesting than the creepy deer shit. Especially since I saw three beautiful deer at work today.
Can I just share a story my nephew told? He was three at the time, and just learning about telling stories.
“Once-a-time, A GHOST!”
Thank you, thank you. He’ll be here all week.
@Karalora
THIS! So much THIS!!!
And we hear it all the time. Bleh.
I was reading a book recently which talked about little white-tailed deer living in the Florida Keys. They sounded adorable, and they are…
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fc/22/69/fc2269970fc242195980ce9cd72507a7.jpg
@Michelle C Young – I’m not sure about the theory that fat people are breeding more due to better health care. That would imply that a genetic predisposition to fat was selected against 100 years ago, but not today. I don’t think you were more likely to die if you were fatter when medicine was less sophisticated. I would think it would be the opposite.
I do think that a combination of calories being (far) cheaper (in the US anyway) and people moving less is part of it. But another part of it that I think is very interesting is this: when people diet, we know that the great majority of them will gain back all of the weight they lost in the long term. We also know that a sizable percentage (25% at least) gain more than they had in the first place. So there are many, many people who are heavier today than they would have been if they had never dieted. And how many diets/eating and exercise programs/lifestyle changes does the average person go on in their lives?
Wow I remember watching Maya the Bee as a kid. I had no idea it was an anime!
I was also enamoured of the original The Little Mermaid story as a kid. There was a film version of it (not the Disney one) that I watched a LOT, and I particularly remember the mermaid taking the witch’s potion and she gagged as it went down, as if it was burning, and then of course walking was incredibly painful. I remember pretending that any liquid medicine (like cough syrup) was the witch’s potion and would dramatically act out the scenes.
I thought it was so beautiful and sad that the prince didn’t love her in the end. Her sisters gave their hair to the witch to allow her a way out from the curse: she could kill the prince and become a mermaid again. But she didn’t do it and she died.
After poking around on the internet, I’m pretty sure the one I saw as a kid was this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderusen_Dowa_Ningyo_Hime which is also an anime. Man, I had no idea so many animated things I liked as a child were anime!
It’s not just people getting fatter. Pwts, wild animals and lab animals (who have a controlled diet) are too. It suggests it’s environmental factors. Perhaps new chemicals in the air, water and food are changing our metabolisms and gut fauna.
It’s a little hard to believe that we all became that much more lazy and gluttonous all of a sudden over the past few decades.
In any case, it’s demonstrably wrong to presume that people wouldn’t be fat if they had more willpower.
Oh I definitely agree, re: it being wrong that people wouldn’t be fat if they had more willpower. That being said, I do think that Americans are moving less now than in the past. More of our leisure activities require less movement (television, video games, general noodling around on the computer), and our work requires less movement in general as well (more office jobs, less physical labor). And it is true that the available food is cheaper and more calorie-dense.
But I absolutely do not believe that this means we are “lazy” and “gluttonous”. Eating the food that is available and engaging in the leisure activities and jobs that are available is not a moral failure. There is no imperative that people not be fat, and it has been shown time and time again that “willpower” is not why diets fail. Not only does your body fight like all hell against your so-called “willpower” by making you hungrier, more tired, and grumpier than another person who is eating the same amount of food but whose body is at a different weight equilibrium, but studies have shown that significant amounts of dieters who start regaining weight are in fact consuming fewer calories than they were at the start of the diet, when they were losing weight.
Personally, I feel like the whole “the US is getting fatter” thing is about as value-neutral as “the US is getting taller”. It’s a thing, it’s happening, there are reasons that might be interesting to know, but otherwise, we should definitely stop giving a shit and trying to make people feel bad for having one body size or another.
deniseeliza- I remember that Little Mermaid! I watched it a lot as a kid. It always made me sad but I really liked it anyway. At the end I think it killed me even more when Fritz was trying to find Marina. 🙁 I’m tearing up right now.
Here’s a link to the article talking about why our preconceived notions about fat are wrong. http://aeon.co/magazine/health/david-berreby-obesity-era/
I always liked mermaid fairy tales best as a kid. I don’t remember any of the stories, just that being a mermaid seemed pretty awesome. They should make more mermaid movies where it’s about them being mermaids rather than trying to be human. Them flopping around on land and being confused about everything is far less interesting than seeing them swimming around and doing mermaid things. Going by how awesome and graceful seals look underwater, mermaids with today’s cgi would be spectacular. Even better if it were made as a buddy movie or ‘road trip’ or something with several female leads, rather than a romance.
I just watched Sarkeesian’s latest two videos. Well worth the time, and what the heck? I saw a two-parter response to it, in the sidebar. Two parts, adding up to almost FIVE HOURS of angry response.
And why? Because she’s pointing out that there is a problem, and that maybe the game developers can do better?
But, but, but… SHE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY OUR SEXAY TOOOYYYYSSSS!
Seriously? And this deserves rape and murder threats? Clearly, these men are proving the very point she’s been trying to make!
I know lots of really wonderful men, whom I love and respect. So, clearly, I don’t hate men. But these particular men? Oh, yeah! I’m all for a healthy, civilized debate, but they don’t want to debate. They don’t want to challenge ideas, and think clearly about their own. They want their way or the highway, with a side order of blood and guts.
@Kim – SQUEEEEE! It’s a deer the size of a kitten! It’s Bambi-kitteh!
@deniseeliza – How many diets? Oh, shoot, I stopped counting.
I know I dieted for 30 years before I gave up. I’m sure it stunted my growth, too. And I’m just fatter than I was before I started dieting.
And yet, the bullies will tell us it’s our job to change to suit them, rather than stop the bullying. Also, that it’s “easy” to lose weight.
Right.
My metabolism was so screwed up that after a week-long bout of stomach flu, I actually *gained* three pounds. But, SCIENCE! THERMODYNAMICS! CALORIES IN/CALORIES OUT!
Cough – gasp – wheeze! Sorry. I think I lost my voice from all the shouting.
Yeah, I know about the 95% of people gain it back within 5 years studies. I am not a five-percenter, and have finally come to accept that.
@deniseeliza – I think you are wonderful and want to give you a hug!