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Men's Rights Activists: Video gaming should be a "safe space" for male nerds.

No girls allowed!
Safe space! No girls allowed!

Though Men’s Rights activists devote an enormous amount of their time denouncing feminism – or at least the imaginary version of feminism that exists only in their own heads – they’re happy to appropriate feminist concepts when it suits them. One that many MRAs seem especially eager to claim for themselves is the idea of the “safe space.”

Of course, their version of the “safe space” bears only a slight resemblance to the feminist original. Feminists seek to create spaces for discussion in which say, rape survivors can discuss their experiences without being triggered by insensitive arguers and trolls and mansplainers in general.

When MRAs talk about “safe spaces,” by contrast, their goal is often to exclude women not just from discussion spaces but from full participation in society, essentially declaring giant arenas of work and play, from STEM fields to video games, to be places where feminists, and women in general, should fear to tread.

And so it’s hardly surprising that more than a few MRAs are arguing that the Zoe Quinn “scandal” proves that women and gaming don’t mix – or, at least, that they shouldn’t.

Consider the little manifesto recently “pinned” as the top post on the Men’s Rights subreddit, in which a fellow calling himself mradiscus lamented what he called “a pattern of female feminists migrating to formerly male spaces, demanding to be accommodated and eventually causing conflict and alienation.”

The “male spaces” he has in mind – the “hacking scene,” atheism, and the video game industry – won’t come as a shock to anyone familiar with the current state of nerdboy rage, but might trouble anyone who thinks that women are, you know, equal to men and have the same rights to choose their own careers and have their own interests and beliefs.

Not only that, but there is just a teensy bit of irony in that the way that MRAs and others are trying to drive off the feminist, er, invaders is by harassing them. That is, MRAs are appropriating the concept of “safe spaces” — designed to protect those in them from harassment and abuse — and using it as an excuse for … harassment and abuse.

But let’s step back a bit, because we still don’t have an answer as to why any of these “spaces” should be defined as male in the first place. How is atheism – the lack of a belief in god or gods – only a dude thing? When did guys get the right to call dibs on the gaming business?

Well, as mradiscus sees it, these “spaces” have traditionally been essentially nerdboy preserves, and should be protected from the pernicious influence of “female feminists” who, presumably, have no real interest in hacking or gaming or skepticism and whose real goal is just to make life hard for already beleaguered nerd dudes:

A scene predominantly populated by rather introverted young males becomes popular and attracts, among others, young women with a feminist mindset. Some of these women then go on and demand to be accommodated. Their demands are mostly met, and so we see the emergence of “gender awareness teams” at hacking conferences, no-means-no campaigns at anime conventions and a whole lot of conference panel slots devoted to “feminist this” and “gender that”.

Mradiscus then offers what I can only call a “revisionist” history of the harassment of feminist women from Rebecca Watson to Zoe Quinn:

What we also see is a whole lot of scandals. What seems to spark them most of the time is a overreaction to a minor offense, blown way out of proportion by a semi-popular feminist and her fan base who then proceed to launch an attack on the whole “misogynistic” scene. The young men feel cornered and unfairly attacked and retaliate with inappropriate and infelicitous measures which only leads to the feminists seeing their prejudices confirmed. Rape threat allegations are launched, there’s doxxing and name-calling all-around and new-found fame for a brave and courageous young feminist who may or may not proceed to make a career out of her struggle.

I should point out that none of the women who have allegedly “made … career[s] out of [their] struggles” actually asked to be harassed and demonized. If the harassers are angry that their harassment allowed Anita Sarkeesian to raise a lot more money than she asked for, they really have only themselves to blame.

Mradiscus ends with an ominous prediction-slash-threat that young men aren’t going to remain “patient” for much longer – and that things could get much worse for feminists venturing into these “male spaces.”

I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if the patience of these young nerdy men turns out to be a shallow well that’s drawing to a close. I sense quite a bit of alienation in the hacking and gaming sub-cultures when it comes to feminist topics. What do you think?

I think that you have a very strange notion of “patience.”

Naturally, MRAs being MRAs, mradiscus’ little manifesto – dripping with unexamined misogynistic assumptions and a quiet, curiously passive-aggressive rage – won praise and more than one hundred upvotes from the subreddit regulars.

The most extraordinary response to mradiscus’ rant was also the top-ranked comment, a long screed from a fellow calling himself a0i that argued, with complete seriousness (and occasional very confused references to the theories of Italian Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci), that

The logic of how feminists target predominantly male spaces is very similar to the pattern of locust swarms.

Yep. Feminists are LOCUSTS.

Wherever there are men, there are targets for false accusations, male scapegoats, and fake victims. False accusations can’t happen without men, and neither can feminism. When there are too many women somewhere, you can’t claim that the environment is dominated by men, and feminists have nothing left to justify their presence. Feminists can’t thrive because they lack a scapegoat. They seek out a place where men are, and fabricate outrage at finding too many men in once place, at one time.

They have to find fresh environments with concentrations of male majorities, for “structures of misogyny” to pretend-struggle against. Thus, nerd culture being targeted, video games being targeted, Anita Sarkeesian making up being attacked, etc.

Yep, apparently all those hundreds of thousands of comments you might have seen attacking Sarkeesian all over the internet are nothing but a mirage.  That Flash game in which you could cover her face in bruises? You must have dreamed it.

It’s telling that a major feminist concern is for “women’s exclusive space”, while another feminist concern is for “women’s inclusion in male-dominated spaces”. They fight to get in, just to kick the men out.

Feminists demand unlimited access for women, as proof of men’s commitment to equality, but demand limited access for men, to prove men’s concern for safety.

Wat? I’m pretty sure no feminists are talking about excluding men from video gaming.

This works, despite the irony that — if you believed in their equality, you wouldn’t make special accommodations for their safety.

Uh, no, because if one group faces systematic oppression because of prejudice, the only way to ensure an egalitarian society is by making “special accommodations for their safety.” That’s why we have hate crime laws.

In the case of gaming, and atheism and tech in general, the only “special accommodations” feminists have asked for have been, you know, protection from sexual harassment and assault. Protections that also apply to men.

If there is one principle to understand about the tactics used to engineer women’s privilege over men in society, it is this:

  • what you intend to do to an opponent, you must accuse them of doing to you”

Frame your victim as your victimizer, put them in a position to want to prove themselves innocent. Frame your attacks as self-defense, frame your transgressions as righteous. Frame the enemy as using propaganda, make this part of your propaganda. Frame the enemy as a threat, before you launch your attack. Pretend to be a victim, while attacking the accused.

Apparently MRAs are utterly oblivious to irony.

 

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

It’s kind of fascinating, I can’t figure out if she’s attempting a reversal or if she’s just genuinely really stupid.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

At this juncture, I wish to draw a parallel between the misogynistic gaming spaces and men returning to fibre crafting.

There appears to be a resurgence of men openly knitting and crocheting, and designing patterns for those crafts. Guess what’s happening? No one in these communities is laughing at the men, or getting them to GTFO of women’s fibre crafting space, or telling them they’re not real(tm) knitters or crocheters. So what is happening in this space is exactly what should be happening – acceptance of others coming to the space. Just because a man can crochet or knit, it doesn’t take away or diminish my ability to crochet or knit, just like another woman knitting or crocheting does not take away or diminish my ability either.

The answer as to the differences in how various groups are treated lies not in what the space is about (gaming or crafting). The answer lies in which groups are the most vocal.

Littlefish
Littlefish
10 years ago

*is getting her girly germs all over some games right now* MMmmmmm gaming… oh yeah… push those buttons… save that file…

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

She’s genuinely really stupid.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Why do you even assume that something like “nerd culture” can be owned, as if it were a piece of property or something?

I.. Er, huh.

I’ve got it. Insanitybytes is a long-lost member of the Incoherents.

Littlefish
Littlefish
10 years ago

“Why, when you can just feel entitled to come into somebody else’s space and demand they conform to your needs, you mean?”

Vs.

“Why do you even assume that something like “nerd culture” can be owned, as if it were a piece of property or something?”

You’re arguing with yourself now. Nice.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Maybe she’s going super-meta, and invading our “argument space” by taking what people have been saying to her and claiming it as her own. For what purpose, I don’t know.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
10 years ago

Of course, pallygirl, you realize that for IB, that’s probably just proof that we silly little girls are only into any activity so long as it provides the opportunity to flutter our eyes at men. It couldn’t possibly be that so many of us just welcome the opportunity to share something we are passionate about with other people who are interested/passionate, especially if they can bring something new and unexpected to the table. Nope, it’s absolutely got to be because we want male attention all day every day.

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“You’re arguing with yourself now. Nice.”

No, I was trying to understand all the contradictory arguments. Is nerd culture a piece of property that can be owned or is it simply a part of society? Have women always been there or have women just arrived and are demanding inclusion?

See, so many of you are so busy being offended, outraged and victimized, and you can’t even clarify why. Naturally, anybody who can’t make sense out of your illogical and contradictory arguments, must be stupid.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
10 years ago

Is it just me (the answer may very well be yes – my nerves are a bit raw at the moment) or is that comment about “clothes for little boys in drag” sticking with anyone else?

Kakanian
Kakanian
10 years ago

@nwoslave

I’d like to see some of your gamers who’re explicitly using multiplayer sessions to escape from women. They’re some really queer folks, that’s for sure, and not of the gay kind, at that.

You also seem to be under the impression that writing something somwhere online is equal to spamming somebody with rape and death threats via their main channel of public exchange, but I guess you’re just as queer a folk as the people playing games in order to escape feminists’s ever-present baleful gaze.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’m not sure she quite has a grip on the whole separation between self and others thing.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

FFS IB, do you understand the meaning of the word “culture”? It’s really hard to argue with someone like you, who seems completely clueless about what words mean.

You’re asking really fucking basic questions in your second paragraph that the rest of us understand. You’re not educated enough on this topic to come into this space and argue. Go away and do some reading.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

@ gillyrosebee

Yeah, I guess she figured her comment needed a little bonus homophobia.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Oh for the love of all things good and rational:

Why do you even assume that something like “nerd culture” can be owned, as if it were a piece of property or something?

Then why are you, IB22? Why do you think the fact that women do indeed like nerdy things like video games and sci-fi and comic books means that women are somehow swarming all over men? They’re not. They’re just enjoying something they like. And people have a right to exist in a space without being called gendered insults or reduced to sex objects or to be seen as up-for-grabs for horny nerdbros. Or, for that matter, not being compared to swarming locusts for enjoying the things they enjoy.

I can’t even with the stupidity about atheism. You can’t just declare a whole philosophy/lack of belief in god as a “male safe space.” It would be like calling democracy or humanism a “male safe space.” It just doesn’t work that way.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Everything she says makes me make this face.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/1578119936/h1157F131/

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Cat videos on YouTube are a female safe space! Because I say so. Sorry, David and other male Mammotheers.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

No, I was trying to understand all the contradictory arguments. Is nerd culture a piece of property that can be owned or is it simply a part of society? Have women always been there or have women just arrived and are demanding inclusion?

Nerd culture is a part of society. However, because male voices have been dominant in society in general, male voices have been the dominant ones in nerd culture. That has driven women to be less likely to be involved in nerd culture, and for society to consider being a nerd a “guy thing.”

Now there is a push against the idea that nerds are guys. Feminists are encouraging other women to take part in nerd culture who might not have bothered, and are fighting against the sexism that has taken root. The sexists, meanwhile, are claiming that nerd culture should just be men, and the women are just fakes that want male attention (that sounds familiar, doesn’t it).

So, tldr, nerd culture is a sub-culture (societal thing) that women have always taken part of to a degree, but now more women want to be able to take part without harassment or sexism.

How much more do I need to spell this out?

Fibinachi
10 years ago

No, no, I get it.

It’s Apologetics, as done by someone who read Plato and forgot the most important part of Plato (Plato is always right, and you’re wrong if you disagree).

By holding our varied responses to statements up Insanitybytes22 is trying to blow our minds by showcasing our complete contradictionary natures and how we have already established the logical conclusions of our made arguments in order to automatically lead to a situation where we get to feel bad.

So for instance, you can’t like, own a space, man. So when someone argues that nerds try to be exclusionary by defining a zone of human interaction as a no go zone for girls, and we argue against this, we’re tacitly agreeing with his imperialist assumptions of ownership, dude, and we’re like, buying into the power trip of owned spaces when, like, for reals man, you can’t own a concept. And this shows our own inherent misogynistic tendences towards thinking of male spaces as not being female spaces, and wanting women in those spaces, those spaces that like totally don’t exist your socialist lapdog, and that means, BOOM, we’ve already bought into the dialectical structure of insubstantiated spheres of ownership.

WE ARE THE SLAVES; WHTM! WE ARE THE SLAVES OWN OUR CONCEPTUALIZED DELUSIONS.

KAHIL GIBRAN WEEPS.

And what is it but fragments of your own self you would discard that you may become free?
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
You cannot erase it by burning your law books nor by washing the foreheads of your judges, though you pour the sea upon them.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed.
For how can a tyrant rule the free and the proud, but for a tyranny in their own freedom and a shame in their own pride?
And if it is a care you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed upon you.
And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.

Athywren
Athywren
10 years ago

blahlistic

If women demanded their own women’s-only enclaves for anything we’d be pilloried for that too.

Plus, it would suck for non-women, such as myself, who enjoy hanging out with women and have all our cootie shots up to date. 😛

Anathema
Anathema
10 years ago

@ insanitybytes22:

Nerd culture is a part of society that women have always been a part of. However, despite the fact that we’ve always been a part of nerd culture, we’ve been marginalized within it for a long time. Because of the way that women have been marginalized within nerd culture, some male nerds have become convinced that nerd culture belongs exclusively to men and that any woman who complains about nerd culture must be some outsider trying to change what belongs to him, instead of an insider fighting back against the people trying to exclude her from the subculture that she’s contributed to.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

@sparky:

Why do you think the fact that women do indeed like nerdy things like video games and sci-fi and comic books means that women are somehow swarming all over men? They’re not. They’re just enjoying something they like.

But we’re not. We don’t really enjoy these things apart from the attention, scented fucking candles, and bonbons they bring us. As soon as we have snared a man, we drop the pretense of liking any of these things, and in fact we ban the men in our households from playing them. Because that is exactly consistent with trying to get a more women-oriented perspective in gaming.

Oh noes, I have said too much about the feminist gaming conspiracy.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Okay, anyone going to bet against me that IB makes this into a blog post on her website that criticizes us? And about how she totes argued us down brilliantly.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

@Fibinachi:

So arguing against something is an acceptance of that thing’s premises?

Mind. Blown. I have seen the light!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I feel like David should start charging her, honestly.

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