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Men's Rights Activists: Video gaming should be a "safe space" for male nerds.

No girls allowed!
Safe space! No girls allowed!

Though Men’s Rights activists devote an enormous amount of their time denouncing feminism – or at least the imaginary version of feminism that exists only in their own heads – they’re happy to appropriate feminist concepts when it suits them. One that many MRAs seem especially eager to claim for themselves is the idea of the “safe space.”

Of course, their version of the “safe space” bears only a slight resemblance to the feminist original. Feminists seek to create spaces for discussion in which say, rape survivors can discuss their experiences without being triggered by insensitive arguers and trolls and mansplainers in general.

When MRAs talk about “safe spaces,” by contrast, their goal is often to exclude women not just from discussion spaces but from full participation in society, essentially declaring giant arenas of work and play, from STEM fields to video games, to be places where feminists, and women in general, should fear to tread.

And so it’s hardly surprising that more than a few MRAs are arguing that the Zoe Quinn “scandal” proves that women and gaming don’t mix – or, at least, that they shouldn’t.

Consider the little manifesto recently “pinned” as the top post on the Men’s Rights subreddit, in which a fellow calling himself mradiscus lamented what he called “a pattern of female feminists migrating to formerly male spaces, demanding to be accommodated and eventually causing conflict and alienation.”

The “male spaces” he has in mind – the “hacking scene,” atheism, and the video game industry – won’t come as a shock to anyone familiar with the current state of nerdboy rage, but might trouble anyone who thinks that women are, you know, equal to men and have the same rights to choose their own careers and have their own interests and beliefs.

Not only that, but there is just a teensy bit of irony in that the way that MRAs and others are trying to drive off the feminist, er, invaders is by harassing them. That is, MRAs are appropriating the concept of “safe spaces” — designed to protect those in them from harassment and abuse — and using it as an excuse for … harassment and abuse.

But let’s step back a bit, because we still don’t have an answer as to why any of these “spaces” should be defined as male in the first place. How is atheism – the lack of a belief in god or gods – only a dude thing? When did guys get the right to call dibs on the gaming business?

Well, as mradiscus sees it, these “spaces” have traditionally been essentially nerdboy preserves, and should be protected from the pernicious influence of “female feminists” who, presumably, have no real interest in hacking or gaming or skepticism and whose real goal is just to make life hard for already beleaguered nerd dudes:

A scene predominantly populated by rather introverted young males becomes popular and attracts, among others, young women with a feminist mindset. Some of these women then go on and demand to be accommodated. Their demands are mostly met, and so we see the emergence of “gender awareness teams” at hacking conferences, no-means-no campaigns at anime conventions and a whole lot of conference panel slots devoted to “feminist this” and “gender that”.

Mradiscus then offers what I can only call a “revisionist” history of the harassment of feminist women from Rebecca Watson to Zoe Quinn:

What we also see is a whole lot of scandals. What seems to spark them most of the time is a overreaction to a minor offense, blown way out of proportion by a semi-popular feminist and her fan base who then proceed to launch an attack on the whole “misogynistic” scene. The young men feel cornered and unfairly attacked and retaliate with inappropriate and infelicitous measures which only leads to the feminists seeing their prejudices confirmed. Rape threat allegations are launched, there’s doxxing and name-calling all-around and new-found fame for a brave and courageous young feminist who may or may not proceed to make a career out of her struggle.

I should point out that none of the women who have allegedly “made … career[s] out of [their] struggles” actually asked to be harassed and demonized. If the harassers are angry that their harassment allowed Anita Sarkeesian to raise a lot more money than she asked for, they really have only themselves to blame.

Mradiscus ends with an ominous prediction-slash-threat that young men aren’t going to remain “patient” for much longer – and that things could get much worse for feminists venturing into these “male spaces.”

I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if the patience of these young nerdy men turns out to be a shallow well that’s drawing to a close. I sense quite a bit of alienation in the hacking and gaming sub-cultures when it comes to feminist topics. What do you think?

I think that you have a very strange notion of “patience.”

Naturally, MRAs being MRAs, mradiscus’ little manifesto – dripping with unexamined misogynistic assumptions and a quiet, curiously passive-aggressive rage – won praise and more than one hundred upvotes from the subreddit regulars.

The most extraordinary response to mradiscus’ rant was also the top-ranked comment, a long screed from a fellow calling himself a0i that argued, with complete seriousness (and occasional very confused references to the theories of Italian Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci), that

The logic of how feminists target predominantly male spaces is very similar to the pattern of locust swarms.

Yep. Feminists are LOCUSTS.

Wherever there are men, there are targets for false accusations, male scapegoats, and fake victims. False accusations can’t happen without men, and neither can feminism. When there are too many women somewhere, you can’t claim that the environment is dominated by men, and feminists have nothing left to justify their presence. Feminists can’t thrive because they lack a scapegoat. They seek out a place where men are, and fabricate outrage at finding too many men in once place, at one time.

They have to find fresh environments with concentrations of male majorities, for “structures of misogyny” to pretend-struggle against. Thus, nerd culture being targeted, video games being targeted, Anita Sarkeesian making up being attacked, etc.

Yep, apparently all those hundreds of thousands of comments you might have seen attacking Sarkeesian all over the internet are nothing but a mirage.  That Flash game in which you could cover her face in bruises? You must have dreamed it.

It’s telling that a major feminist concern is for “women’s exclusive space”, while another feminist concern is for “women’s inclusion in male-dominated spaces”. They fight to get in, just to kick the men out.

Feminists demand unlimited access for women, as proof of men’s commitment to equality, but demand limited access for men, to prove men’s concern for safety.

Wat? I’m pretty sure no feminists are talking about excluding men from video gaming.

This works, despite the irony that — if you believed in their equality, you wouldn’t make special accommodations for their safety.

Uh, no, because if one group faces systematic oppression because of prejudice, the only way to ensure an egalitarian society is by making “special accommodations for their safety.” That’s why we have hate crime laws.

In the case of gaming, and atheism and tech in general, the only “special accommodations” feminists have asked for have been, you know, protection from sexual harassment and assault. Protections that also apply to men.

If there is one principle to understand about the tactics used to engineer women’s privilege over men in society, it is this:

  • what you intend to do to an opponent, you must accuse them of doing to you”

Frame your victim as your victimizer, put them in a position to want to prove themselves innocent. Frame your attacks as self-defense, frame your transgressions as righteous. Frame the enemy as using propaganda, make this part of your propaganda. Frame the enemy as a threat, before you launch your attack. Pretend to be a victim, while attacking the accused.

Apparently MRAs are utterly oblivious to irony.

 

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Aw, he’s missing his “give me some femdom please” avatar.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Owly! It’s been so long! How’ve you been? Still working the milk-technician rounds? 😀

cloudiah
10 years ago

It kind of felt like they were trying to develop the female characters, but didn’t know how to go about that exactly.

Not sure if NWOslave is going to stick around, but just in in case here’s a bingo card:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8439/nwobingo.gif

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
10 years ago

My wife exclusively plays male characters in MMOs, for exactly this reason. If you play a female character, sooner or later somebody asks “r u really a girl?” If you answer “yes,” it immediately changes the social structure of the game. You are no longer just another gamer there to have a good time; you are an Other trying to fit in, and everything you do must be evaluated through that lens.

And the moment you get on mic, it’s over. It’s all about your girl voice and how you’re a girl, and OMG A GIRL, SHOW US YOUR TITS!! I absolutely refuse to do it unless I know the group I’m with and have figured out their level of maturity.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Ooh, ooh! Owly, I have a question! How do you feel about plastic containers and their effect on testosterone? Reddit tells me that this is a thing.

Incognita Secunda
10 years ago

Welp, he’s certainly cited VAWA in a totally nonsensical, context-free, attempt-at-sounding-legally-informed response to my comment re: personal interactions with men, so we can check that one off right away.

I guess I should feel . . . flattered? Such a venerable troll, showering lil’ ol’ me with his utterly ridiculous and 100% non-relevant commentary!

Nope. Nope, I don’t feel flattered. Nor do I feel inclined to rise to his Straw-Woman Challenge bullshit.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I only see VAWA and women have never been oppressed.

cloudiah
10 years ago

So far I think we only have VAWA and Women have never been oppressed, but the day’s still young.

I’m surprised the pixels thing never made it onto the bingo card, since he’s definitely used that one before. Apparently if something involves pixels, it doesn’t matter.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Ninja’d.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

The probable cause for wanting a so called safe space for men who are gamers is so they don’t have to interact with anyone calling themselves a social justice warrior, basically, any one of you. A bunch of guys playing a game, competing against each other, mocking each other, ridiculing everything under the sun, nothing serious, just having a good old time. And in walks a pixelated feminist with an eighty pound sack of eggshells to femsplain why this particular pixelated world is a totally unacceptable bastion of misogyny and every possible ism ever concocted. Play the game, join in the ribbing, be an equal, or get out.

OwlySlave, in honor of your return, I’m going to do something unprecedented.

I’m going to agree with you.

Yes, this is exactly why these dudebros want to set up a “safe space,” because they don’t want to have to deal with changing their behavior to accommodate the people they’ve been excluding. They just want to pal around, enjoy playing a game, call each other faggots. Nothing serious, nobody complaining if they want to stay part of the social circle, especially if they’re gay and have been called a faggot their whole lives and have seen that same insult used to justify real violence.

You wanted a physical example of privilege? This is it.

Privilege is not having to understand how you are being exclusionary, because the people who are being excluded aren’t around. Privilege is seeing nothing wrong with insulting someone by calling them not-straight or not-cis-male.

Privilege is using insults that don’t affect you but do affect others, and privilege is throwing a fit when the others point out that what you are doing is insulting and preventing them from enjoying themselves. Privilege is forcing those others to “join in the ribbing or get out,” rather than understanding that maybe your language isn’t worth keeping if it prevents others from enjoying the game.

Littlefish
Littlefish
10 years ago

Not to say I didn’t enjoy Guardians of the Galaxy… it is a genuinely fun movie. I think you are correct Cloudiah… well that and there probably was a lot of focus on how to make a tree that can only say “I am Groot” and an anthropomorphic raccoon that aren’t in Marvel’s main stable of characters be interesting. I mean, while it probably isn’t as big a gamble, since most of Marvel Studio’s movies as of late have done well, there still is some risk at using characters that are not the most popular.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Remember that time he found a evidence that a prominent feminist had written a play about how murdering men was “just ducky?”

Good times.

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“Apparently MRAs are utterly oblivious to irony.”

I think I pointed out that exact same thing the other day. There was much fuss and resistance.

“Yep. Feminists are LOCUSTS.”

There is some truth in that, you know. Women do tend to swarm all over where men are. Women do want inclusion. If feminists didn’t want to take over the male nerd world, they’d be off starting a nerd world of their very own.

inurashii
inurashii
10 years ago

In case anyone knows any indie devs or generally just wants to help me destroy video games, Ruin Jam is live.

Incognita Secunda
10 years ago

Umm, @insanitybytes22, I think you may be confused. Women have a right to full inclusion in society, so when they participate in whatever area of society they choose, they are in the right to expect inclusion. Participating in society is not equivalent to “[swarming] all over where men are.” Feminists are not interested in “taking over the male nerd world.” They are interested in participating in nerd/geek culture, because they are part of nerd/geek culture. It’s not an “all your base are belong to us” thing: we’re already in the base, and not as part of an occupying force–we helped to build the damn thing.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Women have always been in the “male” nerd world. We’ve already been over this, Inanity

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Must women give up on democracy as well, because that totally belongs to men? Do women need to move away to a different country to avoid swarming on “male politics?” Do we need to instantiate what may have been NWO’s idea (don’t quite remember) to split the country in half and have men on one side and women on the other?

inurashii
inurashii
10 years ago

well ok it isn’t live, it’s announced XD

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Oh, look, misogynybytes is trying to drum up traffic for her blog again.

Matthew Cline
10 years ago

Hey there, nwoslave! Smell any good chemtrails recently?

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“Women have a right to full inclusion in society..”

You seem to be defining “society” as if it were an exclusively male thing. Women gamers and nerds are more than free to go start their own nerd society. The fact that we so seldom do that, but instead seek out male dominated spaces, is evidence of women’s tendency to flock towards men. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with that, but it seems somewhat deceptive to pretend that’s not what’s happening.

Fibinachi
10 years ago

“Apparently MRAs are utterly oblivious to irony.”

I think I pointed out that exact same thing the other day. There was much fuss and resistance.

“Yep. Feminists are LOCUSTS.”

There is some truth in that, you know. Women do tend to swarm all over where men are. Women do want inclusion. If feminists didn’t want to take over the male nerd world, they’d be off starting a nerd world of their very own.

I think I pointed that out on page 1. There was generally little fuss and no one paid much attention.

Because it’s true. If you talk specifically in the swarming behaviour it’s absolutely true.

Anyhow, you know, it’s good that the nerd world just orbits its own universe, completely isolated from anything like patriarchy.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

@ib22:

You seem to be defining “society” as if it were an exclusively male thing. Women gamers and nerds are more than free to go start their own nerd society.

How did you just write these two sentences together? How did you do that? I’m honestly flabbergasted. How did your mind not see that you could add one word to your first sentence (to get “nerd society”) and you’d get the exactly what people have been telling you?

leftwingfox
10 years ago

Women gamers and nerds are more than free to go start their own nerd society.

Guys kick women out of gaming, find your own treehouse. Women start making games; NERDRAAAAGE.

Go away inanitybytes. Take NWO with you to whatever bizarre fantasy world you two orbit.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
10 years ago

No, you are the one who seems to be construing nerd culture as historically and intrinsically a male domain, with your assertion that women could totally go “start their own” as if they are not, and have not always been a part of the subculture that played video games, or D&D, or read scifi. The women I know, like myself, who have always identified as nerds and geeks based on our full, enthusiastic participation in the subculture, were here long before people began insisting that such subcultures were somehow the exclusive province of boys and men.

Who the hell are you to tell people who have been pursuing these interests most of their lives that they are only trying to get male attention?

I suggest you get the flock out of here yourself…

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