Some thoughts on the economics of sex from the fellas over at MGTOWHQ.com.
It’s not looking good for the ladies, at least according to the guys who’ve decided they’re totally over women, honest, but who somehow can’t stop talking about how totally over women they are, honest.
A fellow called TheShaman offers some thoughts on the complete worthlessness of women after they hit the proverbial “wall” somewhere shy of age 40 and are suddenly transformed from swans back into ugly ducklings. He starts off with an idea cribbed directly from good old Warren Farrell before moving on to more advanced Cock Carousel Theory (CCT):
A woman, traditionally, would have used her youth and beauty as a down-payment to a man, to secure his loyalty so that he would stay with her for what could be as long as 50 years of Post-Wall woman.
Nowadays women squander their SMV wealth on bad boys, giving away all their value to Alpha Fucks, and then expect that Beta’s to provide the bucks to settle their massive debts. Especially women in the West- all of the sweetness once expected from women is gone- no ability to cook, no desire to please, no willingness to make a man’s life better. These cock carousel riders only feel like settling down and getting married when they have maybe 1-3 years of decent youth left to her.
A woman truly only has, maybe, 20 good years to her. Afterward, she becomes an aging monster, increasingly bitter over the fact that her best years are behind her.
Women- NEVER BUY.
Not all of the assembled MGTOWers are willing to agree with TheShaman’s radical proposition – that is, that women ever have any value.
As Hank Moody sees it, women are worthless long before they hit the wall:
The economic of Sex for women is at 0%. Its over for cunts, the cat is out of the bag. No sane man will pay for some used slut.
Wallkeeper, meanwhile, reminds the fellas that they’re the real prize. Hooray for fellas!
men must realize that we’re the prize, women are just a sexual fantasy, an accessory, a luxury.
a man can live without sex and without women, a woman cannot live without men.
In return for these valuable insights, I would like to offer all Men Going Their Own Way some concrete suggestions on where exactly they might go. How about one of these lovely islands, all conveniently devoid of women and other humans?
“A woman cannot live without men”
To describe this opinion as having blinders would be a vast understatement.
Pre-family career women? Lesbians? Nope, don’t exist. Koombaya, m’lord.
I couldn’t be bothered to watch the entire video, because it became quickly clear that there are no citations and no evidence whatsoever that what they’re saying is anything but pulled out of someone’s ass.
Fact is that the marriage market is not a new or revolutionary idea, and I actually think this may have been the subject of a Slate article (maybe that’s where they got this, because I saw nothing in the first half that wasn’t present in the Slate article I may or may not have once read and couldn’t find with a 15-second google search).
This idea totally ignores the fact that marriage is quite costly for men. It costs men about 10% of their lifetime earnings. The fact that marriage is so costly and yet men still do it, despite sex being, as everyone knows, easy enough to find, demonstrates that men really like being married for reasons besides access to sex. They like it so much they’re willing to take a 10% pay cut to do it.
Any economic theory of sex-and-marriage has to account for this, and this one doesn’t. So: fail. Good enough for undergrad work, I suppose.
I’m constantly astounded by how abysmal and selfish these guys’ views of women and relationships are. Seriously? The only reason to have a woman around is to “make men’s lives better?” Primarily (solely?) through domestic servitude and sexual favors? If that’s really all they think women are good for, by all means, they should go their own way. Just let me know what way that is so I can go the opposite direction.
I know it’s been said many times before, but if they hate women so much why do they keep going on about us? Really, it’s ok, just go. They can stop with the sexual marketplace value shit too, we are humans, not commodities for sale.
@PolicyofMadness Pure speculation here, so add salt as necessary:
I would guess that marriage still comes with a social “status boost” that’s awarded by others, probably more in corporate environments than, say, artistic ones. Now, granted, an unmarried woman in her 30s will get more raised eyebrows than an unmarried man in his 30s, but at some point, people will wonder why a man in their office is still single, and possibly (in error) attribute that as reflective of a problem, which would colour their judgements of that person.
Consequently, marriage eliminates that stigma. Well, for straight men, anyway. It’s entirely possible I’ve just only ever landed jobs with corporations that tend to bleed into family business anyway and most corporations don’t give a hoot.
Wait a minute. Is he admitting that he is an insecure ‘beta’ male, who can’t feed himself and needs nanny to look after him and boost his ickle ego?
I’m surprised he hasn’t been snapped up!
Policy of Madness, true, and if women are married/partnered and choose to have children & take time away from the workplace to be a primary career, they potentially loose more than 10% of lifetime potential earnings. So marriage does work for lots of people for many reasons other than just money.
@coffee
When I say “lifetime earnings” I’m not talking about salary, but about salary-minus-costs of living. A man’s material quality of life improves about 10% after divorce, which means that he was taking a hit to his earnings while married.
My unscientific survey of the married men in my life a few years ago indicated that social status has little or nothing to do with it, and being in love with someone and wanting to spend one’s life with that person is the major factor. “I couldn’t imagine living my life without her” was a common response (all my married male friends are in heterosexual relationships). But that’s not easy to quantify in economic terms, is it?
Research indicates that married men live longer than unmarried ones. One study suggested it could be as much as 17 years.
Have they factored that in?
@limesweet
A woman’s material quality of life tends to decline after divorce, by 25%-30%. Yet women still ask for divorces! It’s almost like they are motivated by something other than a pure economic exchange of funds!
I should mention, too, that “quality of life” and “material quality of life” are related but not the same. If someone is willing to take a 10% hit to their material quality of life in order to live within a marriage contract, then we can safely say that their total quality of life has improved at least that much. You don’t pay money for something that is of lesser value to you than the money. Married men value marriage at least as much as 10% extra material stuff.
*I’m aware that if you give someone a 10% raise and then take 10% of the new total away, the numbers don’t equal each other, but let’s pretend otherwise, okay?
If you add up the annual cost of all the domestic services that traditional wives are expected to provide for free (childcare, tutoring, cooking, laundering, housecleaning, food shopping, etc.) it’s probably well up into five figures. Marriage is a much better deal for men than these guys think. It’s like getting a raise.
Various studies indicate that women get the short end of the stick in marriage – they tend to be less happier after marriage, more likely to see problems with the marriage, more likely to initiate divorce, less likely to want to remarry. If marriage was such a fantastic economic deal for women, MRAs wouldn’t be having to force them into it by inducing fake panic over the natural aging process, denigrating their “sexual market value” (what even is that), and resorting to shame, trickery, intimidation, and bullying tactics. Women should be running to them willingly.
And yet they’re not, because MRAs are the lemons of the dating market. It’s almost as if people get married for reasons other than dollar signs.
@coffee It’s especially bad for politicians – spouse and 2.5 children are required in order to run for office. Unattached = suspicious, therefore unelectable. I remember Dennis Kucinich getting a lot of flak for being single.
These guys must weep bitter tears every time they masturbate.
Ha. Ha. Just HA.
Way to advertise that you know nothing about women, OR yourself, dude.
And if a guy talks like this, he’s NO prize, and should quit kidding himself that women are even going to take an interest. No woman will touch him. Not even a wall-splatter like li’l ol’ still-happily-unmarried me.
Hammer, nail, head. BANG! Read it and weep, MRAssholes.
Women cannot live without men? There’s no men within a 10 metro radius of me – AM I GOING TO DIE??
*panics*
Wow. They want to believe this shit so bad.
It’s like MGTOWs don’t realize that marriage’s original purpose was a ceremony for men to transfer property to other men and build alliances. They think it’s some conspiracy by the wimminz to get pregnant and leave them on the hook for providing for said offspring. It’s one of the parts of MGTOW rhetoric that really bugs me– do these guys really want the “right” to be deadbeat fathers? If so, women are wise to fucking avoid them.
Marriage still has lots of patriarchal trappings to it, too- 90% of American women change their names when they marry (usually to take their husband’s name), and nearly 50% of Americans think it should be required.
Let me repeat that if you missed it: Half of Americans think it should be required for women to change their last names when they marry. http://gas.sagepub.com/content/25/2/145.abstract (Source.)
Obviously this feminism bullshit is just all up in my lady-brain.
Oh, MGTOW and their obsession with sour grapes.
They’re so angry that we’re glad they don’t want to date us. Dudes, we’re glad to see you go.
Meanwhile, women can’t cook anymore? How do they think we eat? what are all those recipe Pintrest pages about?
Last week I decided that I wanted homemade tortillas. So, I made the dough and started rolling them out while Hubby worked the skillets. Yay teamwork! We listened to horror podcasts while we worked. It was fun. Many hands make light work and doing things together is enjoyable when you actually like the person you are in a relationship with.
So weird that these guys only think about what a woman can do for them and not how much fun they could have doing things together. They just don’t like women. That’s why they can only understand straight relationships in terms of “What can/should she do for me?”.
They think the answer is “Everything.” The answer is actually, “Fuck off and do for yourself. Bon voyage, assholes! No one will miss you. Exit quickly, stage left. Happy trails!”
Why can’t they just be happy to go their way with our blessing? Are they upset we won’t pack their bags for them too?
NonServiam,
One day? Yes. From lack of a man? No.
Kevin K,
I would think they’d have a great time masturbating. They’re having sex with the only person they think much of without feeling like they are a scary gay. Surely that’s good times for them if anything is.
Cheap source of lube, at any rate.
The price of Ladies is plummeting! We have unprecedented opportunities for profit! BUY! BUY! BUY!
Should be required? Damn. I just KNEW there was a reason for my antipathy…
(That, and the whole coverture thing behind the requirement of name-changing for one spouse only. Women who gave up their names were also required to give up everything they owned except the clothes on their backs. And it was just a few short decades ago that women still had to have their husbands’ permission to own so much as a credit card.)
Hold on, hold on. They’re mad because women are living into their 30’s without partnering up with a man but they’re also mad because women can’t live without men and take all of their money by tricking them into marriage?
Single women = bad.
Married women = bad.
Yep. Sounds about right. *rolls eyes*
What the actual fuck to these hateful people want? Seriously, what would make them happy? Nothing, I guess.