If the Men’s Rights movement is looking for a celebrity endorser, I think I’ve found just the guy for them: the mixed martial arts fighter, and erstwhile porn actor, War Machine, currently sitting in jail on charges of brutally beating and attempting to kill his ex-girlfriend, porn star Christy Mack.
Men’s Rights activists should be able to look past these criminal charges; after all, as they remind us all the time, women are forever falsely accusing innocent men of all sorts of terrible things.
And in so many ways War Machine is perfect for them. An MMA fighter, he’s already only one letter away from being an MRA. A misogynistic asshole with rage issues, he’ll have no trouble fitting in with the Men’s Rights crowd. And, especialy important for a movement that has a lot of trouble getting any good PR, he’s a bit more comfortable on camera than the Paul Elams and Dean Esmays of the world, with experience on television (on the reality show The Ultimate Fighter: Team Hughes vs. Team Serra), and in seven films (albeit pornographic ones).
Best of all: he’ll need no ideological education from what A Voice for Men likes to call Fuck Shit Up University. War Machine – real name Jonathan Koppenhaver – is already an outspoken proponent of many of the Men’s Rights Movement’s core beliefs.
Consider these selections from a little Men’s Rights manifesto War Machine wrote a few years ago during a previous stint behind bars, serving time for felony assault after two bloody bar fights. His rant, which a friend posted to the internet, would fit right in with the sort of stuff we’ve seen regularly posted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, or The Spearhead, or A Voice for Men. I’ve bolded some of the Men’s Rightsiest bits:
The oppression of MEN is worse than oppression of Jews in Nazi germany, worse than the slavery of Blacks in early America…
There has always been the oppressor and always the oppressed. Before, it was blatant … NOW the oppressor has learned to disguise his evil. You can see man, but you can not see MEN. How easy it is to oppress a minority that is invisible to the eye! How genius of the oppressor! And what a better target too! …
Men challenge injustice from Government, MEN fight for their Constitutional rights, that are slowly being taken away every year. …
And they don’t just oppress us by making more laws and taking away more freedom, they are far more clever than that! Ask yourself what your REAL dream was?? If you gave up on this dream, why? Because of the brainwashing of the Government, that’s why! They taught you to “play it safe.” They told us a responsible man has ONE wife, a house, good credit, good job, and kids. How are you supposed to chase your dreams while maintaining all of that!?
Men are supposed to take risks and be aggressive! What accomplishments have ever come of a man scared to risk it all!? None!? Where would the world be? Still ‘flat!’ Still ‘Earth at the center of the universe!’
If any of you have your Men’s Rights Bingo cards out, I’m guessing you might already be close to scoring a bingo. We’ve got a comparison to slavery that could have come straight from the pages of A Voice for Men, a marriage-is-death-to-male-dreams rant that could have been borrowed from any MGTOW forum, and an evo-psych-esque argument that men are the true risk-takers and the world’s real innovators.
And I don’t think War Machine would have much trouble with Paul Elam’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month,” either.
[I]t’s Christmas day and I’m laying in my bunk wondering “Why in the hell do American men get married!?” … If your wife is being a bitch you can’t slap her, if your wife is yelling at you, God forbid you yell back … Next thing you know it will be illegal to fuck your wife! LMAO! Maybe then, MEN in this country will get the fucking hint and MOVE! This country forces you to be a bitch!
In another online posting, War Machine touched on another Men’s Rights hobbyhorse, the notion that the justice system is stacked against men:
[L]ook at the prisons, they are FULL of MEN, not women. Are men “evil” and women not? Or do the laws target and attempt to restrict NATURAL MEN’S BEHAVIOR? How many of the HEROES in American history would avoid prison if they lived today? Davey Crockett? Thomas Jefferson? David Bowie? General Grant & General Lee? Shit, George Washington. … Laws target MEN and men’s behavior. Women want to bitch and cry about their rights and equality… LMAO! MEN are the ones locked away like animals, while women run free!
Someone might have to explain to War Machine that David Bowie is not actually a famous American HERO but a famously androgynous British musician who once recorded an album called “Heroes.” (Mr. Machine may be thinking of James Bowie, a well-known 19th century American frontiersman and slave trader, and the guy the Bowie Knife is named after.)
But other than that, he seems ready to go.
There is, of course, that whole attempted murder charge to deal with.
It’s true the Men’s Rights Movement has had few problems in the past rallying behind men with histories of violence. But War Machine might be a harder sell as a Men’s Rights hero. His alleged attack on Mack left her with a cracked rib, a ruptured liver, numerous broken bones, missing teeth and her eyes swollen shut. (See here for photos of her injuries; obviously this link is NSFW and could be triggering.)
While Mr. Machine denies attacking Mack, he joked to a TV host last year that if she were to leave him “I would just kill her” and get a tattoo saying “Rest In Peace” above the tattoo of her name he has on his neck.
And several hours after allegedly trying to murder her, War Machine tweeted this lovely message about his ex:
https://twitter.com/WarMachine170/statuses/497663075831787521
War Machine does seem to be at a low point in his life. Even aside from the charges he faces, and the time he seems likely to serve, his career in porn is almost certainly over. The “Alpha Male” clothing line he helped start wants nothing to do with him. Nobody but the prison system seems to want this guy.
In other words: Men’s Rights activists, this is your chance! War Machine may not be the, er, hero you want. But he’s certainly the hero you deserve.
More or less, although even that isn’t always true (see: Greek vs Roman polytheists). The problem is less “my gods vs your gods” and more to do with thing like initiated Wiccans vs self-taught Wiccans. Or the hard polytheists (“each god is a distinct individual”) feeling like the soft polytheists (“all gods are aspects of the Supreme Reality”) are insulting their gods. Or vegan peacenik types vs devotees of warrior and hunter gods. Etc etc.
Kitteh: Now that’s just mind-boggling. Am I wrong in thinking paganism has a lot to do with polytheism, and the whole my gods vs your gods shouldn’t really apply?
Depends on who you are asking, and what you mean.
In the modern age Pagan has to mean a lot of things, in a moderatly narrow band. From the origin (people who lived in the country, as opposed the city pagan/urban), and so followed their own brand of religion, at odds with the State religion (though usually in parallel), to the sense of, “non-Christian”, to the modern, “earth Goddess, “old ways” school it’s meant a lot of things.
Much of the modern sense of what that word means comes from Victorians in England who were searching after mythical Druidism. It got married to various stripes of “back to nature/reject the patriarchal God(s) of the Abrahamic religions.
Very rarely do the people who call themselves pagans, adhere to cultic practices which aren’t in the general vein of modern Wiccanism (this is probably a good thing). Many of those who do claim it, are being a bit farfetched (there is no repository of Druidic knowledge/beliefs. They didn’t believe in writing those things down. Becoming a fully trained druid took between 20-30 years (depending on which sources [all Roman, to some degree] you believe; though many people took lesser terms of study [seven years seems common; some were longer, some were shorter; all the durations seem to have had some ritual significance; though it’s also possible the things being studied affected the time required too) and so when they were supressed by Rome (it was a capital offense to be a Druid, or a Druid in training) they were completely wiped out in about 100 years.
The Odin/Thor/Mithras/Zeus worshippers are also working from incomplete (if any) textual basis (since Graeco-Roman cultic practices involved secret rites, and the knowledge we have ofGermanic/Nordic practice is (again) incomplete, and mostly from outside observers, who often had bias).
As any such thing does, it has movements, various belief patterns, and ways in which local ideas about what the past was, “really like” married to modern worldviews.
It can be as heated as any debate between 5th century writers on the “One True Way to Follow Christ” debating what beliefs are heretical, and with as much angry rhetoric and damning of all who don’t agree to the realms of outer darkness.
Part of it, I think, stems from being seen as fringy/flakey/silly. That, as much as anything else is why so many try to lay claim to their rituals being ancient past the memory of man to record them. Since it’s, at root, religion (and as such not really subject to being tested as a truth claim; though it lays claim to Truths), it will look silly to outsiders. Since it’s practice(s) are so variant from the culturally understood/acceptable religious environment, many have a need to point to an outside source to legitmate their beliefs (and some of the most vitriolic responses I’ve gotten in religious discussions came of talking about the modern origins of “Paganism”).
Me, I don’t care. I figure the devout Pastafarian is as legitimate in their belief; and to be tolerated in their practice, so long as they don’t try to impose on others.
Here endeth the digression
WWTH — I haven’t seen it. I’ve been awake all of ten minutes though and I have seen an axolotl lumbering across the bottom of zir tank! I worried that all the “10g is fine for one” must’ve been nonsense, but watching mine wander about? Yeah, other than me worrying when my little one settled in next to the power filter, this has so far been the most laid back experience I’ve ever had in aquatics. Only time I’ve seen fast movement was when a scallop wouldn’t break into a small enough piece! (But w00t! Non-live food consumed without much coaxing!)
emilygoddess, pecunium – thanks for that info, and all I can say is I’m glad I’m not involved in any of that! I think I have my ideas of paganism from the pre-Christian era; even the Romans were, overall, more inclined to adopt local deities, maybe with a name change, or equate them with their own, than jump up and down about who’s right and who’s wrong, afaik.
“I figure the devout Pastafarian is as legitimate in their belief; and to be tolerated in their practice, so long as they don’t try to impose on others.”
Should I say Amen! or Alleluia!?
“white-supremacist Norse Pagans make me real Thor….”
Blahlistic wins the prize for worst pun that makes perfect sense!
Pastafarians say “Ra-men.” 😀
…My puns are only outdone in stench by my farts…
And on that note …
Good thing cats don’t make puns. It the puns’ terrible terribleness was linked to their fart power, I shudder to think how bad Fribbie’s would be.
From War Machine to kitty farts in 1434 posts.
“What a long strange trip it’s been.”
Please forgive me, all. This may sound terrible, but it’s a nonsnarky question. Are there sincere Pastafarians? The few I’ve met are really atheists for whom Flying Spaghetti Monster is their celestial teapot. (They’re good people; I don’t want to give anyone a bad impression)
Essentially the FSM was intelligently designed by mostly science-friendly folks to mock proponents of intelligent design. You don’t have to be an atheist to get a chuckle out of this mockery, but probably most “believers” are non-believers. (There’s a good Wikipedia article on the subject if you’re interested.)
GOM: Essentially the FSM was intelligently designed by mostly science-friendly folks to mock proponents of intelligent design.
A more pointed version of Discordianism really.
The whole deal with pirates is also mocking pseudoscience, specifically the misuse of correlation as causation. Pointing out that global temperature has raised while the number of pirates decreased, they propose to convert lots of people to the pirate lifestyle in order to cool the planet down again.
If you think discordianism is just a ha-ha, go read the principia again. 😉
dear god, I finally gave up and googled axolotl…Plus chucking my tuppence in that I was disengaging with the site due to the dynamic that was developing and I am glad to see it out in the open. Also agreeing that I wish we could have resolved it as a community which involved Ally. And also that I think TERF is a very particular term to describe a group of feminist who, by the very nature of their take on feminism, are trans-exclusionary. Therefore TERF is apt but now degraded.
I’m very glad to see you still here, BigMomma, and hope you’ll be able/want to engage more! I was sorry we were seeing so little of you.
I don’t think such a resolution would have been possible.
Ta, Kittehs. It’s a shame to lose diverse voices from the community but I certainly could see from the thread implosion that it was going be nigh on impossible to resolve without losses. I know I’m an occasional commenter, but I’ve been following the site for about 5 years, if not more so still have an emotional investment in this place
I was frankly surprised that there weren’t more people leaving, myself included. The situation was such that I thought I’d be one of a small minority and just not welcome after saying anything. In fact I’ll go further: I was astonished that there was support, let alone what seems to be general agreement, overall if not in detail.
You’ve been following the site longer than I have, too; I’d guess it’s maybe two-three years for me. I wasn’t with it in the early days when it was more trolls than regulars, judging by the old threads. But it’s my only social connection these days – not that I mind that, I don’t enjoy face to face social stuff outside a very small group – and it would have been a heavy blow to have to leave.
It is interesting that there was general agreement, as you say. I hope we can learn from it and stop a similar situation from festering. I feel some shame in being a bystander and hope that we take from this how much cohesion we actually have and that it’s up to all of us (lurkers included) to define our community values. When we start to feel uncomfortable, we need to look at ourselves first to check out what the issues are and then deal with them, either internally or by flagging it to the group for discussion. If that doesn’t feel safe, well then, that’s a big red flag.
I was on here more before when Ami Angelwings, Rutee and Cliff Pervocracy were about. Then I had a baby and then went back to work. Time was kinda at a premium for a bit. And yeah, I live in a small, rural town and this place is a good outlet for the feminist side of me that is a bit lost amongst small town life. If all you regulars had quit, it would be like my friends leaving town.
I was thinking the same thing! Pastafarians may not literally believe in the FSM, but that doesn’t mean they’re not serious or sincere about Pastafarianism. Parodic religions are complicated like that.
War Machine said that “Men’s Oppression is worse than slavery”…… I said on twitter that Many men are realizing this……. Allegations against War Machine may or may not be correct, he may or may not be an ideal human being- nothing stops his right to think like a Man, express his view like a Man, realize slavery of a Man…… and I endorse his views on slavery of Men.
You have weird capitalization habits.
So, you endorse his very well documented brutality as long as he “thinks like a man.” Funny, because feminists don’t think “men=brutality” — that seems to be down to anti-feminists. Why are anti-feminists such misandrists?
Hitler was a vegetarian, but vegetarians have the sense not to use him as a spokesman for their movement.
There’s also the part where thinking men are oppressed and being a violent misogynist are to closely interwoven in the MRM. In fact, I notice you haven’t actually said that what he did was wrong.
Well, I’m a man. A white cishet man, in fact. I’m not oppressed by anything besides a fucked-up capitalist system that promotes a dog-eats-dog mentality and rewards opportunistic, selfish assholes at the expense of decent people working together to keep society running. But as a white cishet man, that’s pretty much all I’m being oppressed by. Women, POC, gay people and transpeople face the same oppressive system, but with the added penalty of institutionalized misogyny, racism, homophobia and transphobia. So tell me again how the suffering of men is worse?
The men who are “realizing this” are not realizing anything besides the fact that they’re slowly losing privilege, and that makes them angry. And sometimes violent. They’re the bad guys, here.
Umm… You do realize that beating up your girlfriend beyond the point of recognition makes you pretty much the opposite of an ideal human being, right? Leave it to an MRA to doubt any and all accusations of violence commited by a white cishet man with a history of abuse and violence and an attitude of utter entitlement…
I thought about making a joke at using Man – Middle-Earth’s way of differentiating human being from man (written without the capital “m”), but fuck you. Seriously. Don’t you realize that the toxic nonsense that War Machine spews is the exact reason why many men are so fucked up? He embodies the worst aspects of the male gender role: Entitlement and the will to dominate through threatening with and using violence as a weapon.
Feminists are trying to get rid of gender roles. You MRAs are enforcing them with your poisonous nonsense about the supposed sanctity of the image of men as a group of violent control freaks and rapists who are being unfairly held down by a “feminized” society. You’re promoting the exact image of men you claim you’re opposed to. You’re the problem.
I’m a man. I’m not violent. I have no desire to compete with or dominate anyone. I view women as equals. You are allowed to call me a feminine man or a mangina. In turn, I’m allowed to point out that your name-calling is reliant on the misogynistic belief that women are somehow worth less than men, and call you a misogynistic douchenozzle with massive entitlement and zero empathy. As I should.
Well, good luck with that. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but you’re not entitled to your own facts. And saying that men are enslaved seems to me like a solid claim of fact. A positive claim, in fact. So start handing out the links to the research proving that men are “enslaved”*. The way I see it, we’re not. Not by a long shot, and you’d be an idiot to think otherwise.
*Before promoting it, let me say that I’ve already read WTF’s The Myth of Male Power. Not only is it full of unsupported assertions and backwards logic, it’s a goddamn stupid piece of writing as well. Anybody swayed by the ridiculous ego-stroking of entitled men in that book is about as gullible and narcissistic as any Ayn Rand fan.
Anyway, the fuck is it with you guys and your complete inability to use ellipses correctly? Did the leftover dots in your text spill over from your fellow MRAs?