If the Men’s Rights movement is looking for a celebrity endorser, I think I’ve found just the guy for them: the mixed martial arts fighter, and erstwhile porn actor, War Machine, currently sitting in jail on charges of brutally beating and attempting to kill his ex-girlfriend, porn star Christy Mack.
Men’s Rights activists should be able to look past these criminal charges; after all, as they remind us all the time, women are forever falsely accusing innocent men of all sorts of terrible things.
And in so many ways War Machine is perfect for them. An MMA fighter, he’s already only one letter away from being an MRA. A misogynistic asshole with rage issues, he’ll have no trouble fitting in with the Men’s Rights crowd. And, especialy important for a movement that has a lot of trouble getting any good PR, he’s a bit more comfortable on camera than the Paul Elams and Dean Esmays of the world, with experience on television (on the reality show The Ultimate Fighter: Team Hughes vs. Team Serra), and in seven films (albeit pornographic ones).
Best of all: he’ll need no ideological education from what A Voice for Men likes to call Fuck Shit Up University. War Machine – real name Jonathan Koppenhaver – is already an outspoken proponent of many of the Men’s Rights Movement’s core beliefs.
Consider these selections from a little Men’s Rights manifesto War Machine wrote a few years ago during a previous stint behind bars, serving time for felony assault after two bloody bar fights. His rant, which a friend posted to the internet, would fit right in with the sort of stuff we’ve seen regularly posted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, or The Spearhead, or A Voice for Men. I’ve bolded some of the Men’s Rightsiest bits:
The oppression of MEN is worse than oppression of Jews in Nazi germany, worse than the slavery of Blacks in early America…
There has always been the oppressor and always the oppressed. Before, it was blatant … NOW the oppressor has learned to disguise his evil. You can see man, but you can not see MEN. How easy it is to oppress a minority that is invisible to the eye! How genius of the oppressor! And what a better target too! …
Men challenge injustice from Government, MEN fight for their Constitutional rights, that are slowly being taken away every year. …
And they don’t just oppress us by making more laws and taking away more freedom, they are far more clever than that! Ask yourself what your REAL dream was?? If you gave up on this dream, why? Because of the brainwashing of the Government, that’s why! They taught you to “play it safe.” They told us a responsible man has ONE wife, a house, good credit, good job, and kids. How are you supposed to chase your dreams while maintaining all of that!?
Men are supposed to take risks and be aggressive! What accomplishments have ever come of a man scared to risk it all!? None!? Where would the world be? Still ‘flat!’ Still ‘Earth at the center of the universe!’
If any of you have your Men’s Rights Bingo cards out, I’m guessing you might already be close to scoring a bingo. We’ve got a comparison to slavery that could have come straight from the pages of A Voice for Men, a marriage-is-death-to-male-dreams rant that could have been borrowed from any MGTOW forum, and an evo-psych-esque argument that men are the true risk-takers and the world’s real innovators.
And I don’t think War Machine would have much trouble with Paul Elam’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month,” either.
[I]t’s Christmas day and I’m laying in my bunk wondering “Why in the hell do American men get married!?” … If your wife is being a bitch you can’t slap her, if your wife is yelling at you, God forbid you yell back … Next thing you know it will be illegal to fuck your wife! LMAO! Maybe then, MEN in this country will get the fucking hint and MOVE! This country forces you to be a bitch!
In another online posting, War Machine touched on another Men’s Rights hobbyhorse, the notion that the justice system is stacked against men:
[L]ook at the prisons, they are FULL of MEN, not women. Are men “evil” and women not? Or do the laws target and attempt to restrict NATURAL MEN’S BEHAVIOR? How many of the HEROES in American history would avoid prison if they lived today? Davey Crockett? Thomas Jefferson? David Bowie? General Grant & General Lee? Shit, George Washington. … Laws target MEN and men’s behavior. Women want to bitch and cry about their rights and equality… LMAO! MEN are the ones locked away like animals, while women run free!
Someone might have to explain to War Machine that David Bowie is not actually a famous American HERO but a famously androgynous British musician who once recorded an album called “Heroes.” (Mr. Machine may be thinking of James Bowie, a well-known 19th century American frontiersman and slave trader, and the guy the Bowie Knife is named after.)
But other than that, he seems ready to go.
There is, of course, that whole attempted murder charge to deal with.
It’s true the Men’s Rights Movement has had few problems in the past rallying behind men with histories of violence. But War Machine might be a harder sell as a Men’s Rights hero. His alleged attack on Mack left her with a cracked rib, a ruptured liver, numerous broken bones, missing teeth and her eyes swollen shut. (See here for photos of her injuries; obviously this link is NSFW and could be triggering.)
While Mr. Machine denies attacking Mack, he joked to a TV host last year that if she were to leave him “I would just kill her” and get a tattoo saying “Rest In Peace” above the tattoo of her name he has on his neck.
And several hours after allegedly trying to murder her, War Machine tweeted this lovely message about his ex:
https://twitter.com/WarMachine170/statuses/497663075831787521
War Machine does seem to be at a low point in his life. Even aside from the charges he faces, and the time he seems likely to serve, his career in porn is almost certainly over. The “Alpha Male” clothing line he helped start wants nothing to do with him. Nobody but the prison system seems to want this guy.
In other words: Men’s Rights activists, this is your chance! War Machine may not be the, er, hero you want. But he’s certainly the hero you deserve.
sorry, typos. I’m typing while tired and just back from a very emotional protest!
Another problem with the TERF approach to the cotton ceiling is that they attack trans women for labeling their own bodies as female. The truth is, I have a female body by virtue of having a female gender. To assert otherwise is to grant legitimacy to the practice of coercive gender assignment, the root of the oppression of trans women. And it also amounts to misgendering me. I don’t have a male body – I simply have a body nthat needs some correction (see: transitioning).
Hit the nail on the head.
I read the article/blogpost that LBT posted on the “cotton ceiling” and thought it was a really good explanation of the issue, including what is so wrong about the TERF interpretation of it.
I really don’t like the comparison between what happened with Just Give Up and this thread. Just Give Up was in a state of abject crisis. People make absolutist black and white generalizations when they’re in that place. As someone who was in that place shortly prior, at which point I was sure the only way to manage the pain was to not exist any longer, I wasn’t under the impression “Men will continue to hurt me”. Just Give Up didnt express that sentiment either. They just expressed hopelessness for healthy relationships. That not comparable to “Men are terrifying”.
The “dog-piling” that occurred here was very reasonable and calm. A handful of people were irked and said “That’s not fair, don’t do that” in a calm manner. I don’t even know how you can call that dog-piling. It was proportionate and reasonable. The response to that response I found to be quite disproportionate.
I’ve lived in Nigeria. I’m white. I learnt pretty quickly I am hated. My appearance alone warrants hatred from people who have suffered due to systemic oppression by people who look like me. I understand that and I empathise. I don’t blame anyone for a second for having those feelings. I still recognise them as unfair and unproductive. I can understand the why without condoning the behaviour.
I have man problems. I still let my dad physically assault me because my self esteem is so fucking low that I will see him to seek validation knowing he’s going to beat me up. I have had three BAD boyfriends who took out their anger on me and I spent years desperately seeking the approval of. By default, I’m anxious around men. I know letting that control my behaviour isn’t helpful though, that it’s actually counterproductive, so I don’t express negative generalizations about them.
And I couldn’t give two shits about tossing the expression “scrotosphere”. It’s an insult referencing genitals. I get why that’s hurtful to people with scrotums who don’t identify with or mirror the people of the manosphere at all.
The refusal to even embrace a morsel of correctness from those individuals saying “Whoa, that’s not fair. I understand you’re speaking from a place of negative personal experience. Don’t do that though” is what I take umbrage with.
And Ally apologised and agreed to desist with the “Men are terrifying” stuff so I don’t even have a problem with what she’s said. I have a problem with “How dare you call her statement unfair. Shame on you!” Ally’s strong. She doesn’t need to be coddled and kept free of criticism.
Speaking of cis women facing the brunt of male violence due to their high population relative to trans women: even if that claim was valid, it would have to be based on reliable statistics about the approximate population of trans women. And so far, the only studies that ever try to determine the population of trans women get their demographic information from medical records related to transition. But that’s a bullshit measure because 1) not every trans woman wants to transition 2) not every trans woman is able to do so and 3) many trans women are still not out to themselves due to the level of structural violence they face for even coming out to themselves. So in truth, we don’t know how many trans women (and, by implication, trans men and all other trans people) are really out there.
Sorry, I was asleep for 19 hours because I have a massive fever spike and stuff. And I missed stuff! Ups.
Ally, if you’re facing animosity on a regular basis from several vectors, then I’m certainly sorry I added to it by going on a tangent viz a vie the men thing. No one needs that kind of stress, and that really really sucks. Good luck with things. There are open threads if you need to talk, and you have my e-mail, so yeah.
However, and I say this knowing I could be wrong, and that I don’t want to dictate your experience, I don’t think people are really biased against your because of an unconscious impulse, and that this anger would reach across multiple threads and then corrode and corrupt the discourse into such a way as to render it terse, insensitive, intolerant, uncouth and rude, fueled by a hypocrisy-and-privileged blinded inability to consider other people’s point of view.
I think they like you, because you are likable, and don’t find you as some kind of alien organism that needs to be broken down and assimilated. And I think asking you not to use a phrase because of the splash damage is not, somehow, an attempt to control your emotions. I think it’s the exact same thing as you were asking other people to do, because words mean things and they sometimes hurt people.
Anyhow, anything else I can’t comment on.
And I’m going to go have more pain killers now.
@Fibinachi
You’re positing a false dichotomy here. I was talking more about a hostile bias that manifested itself in grudge-like attitudes and tendencies for people to snap at me for no good reason. It doesn’t have to be as overwhelming and incessant as you make it out to be.
I wasn’t saying that anyone was trying to control my emotions by asking me not to use a phrase. I made a mistake in understanding what kinds of things are acceptable to say on WHTM, and I apologized. I simply stuck to arguing about the hypocrisy that was related to the whole thing. Being called out wasn’t something I really had any problem with at all. That’s why I immediately desisted without any complaints about being asked to do so.
I thought saying that was fine. I think most people here probably thought saying that was fine. What I don’t get is why Ally apologizing and desisting wasn’t enough.
Sorry, I was just using your words to explain the phenomena you were experiencing, and you yourself said had and was happening to you. I apologize if that’s incorrect, and that I slipped into somehow making it into a larger thing than you were experiencing it to be.
As I said, I can’t really do the… thinking… thing today. Because my brain is… thing… with… stuff.
Am I incorrect in thinking that “control emotions” also means “dictate experience”? I use it to mean that, because someone is trying to control someone elses emotions as they relate to a thing. So, it’s like, dictating their experience, or trying to control how they feel about something. If that’s also not the case, I apologize again. Because ups.
That’s what I got from this:
Like trying to tell you your experiences was invalid because of… something.
My painkillers aren’t working.
Life is suffering.
Oh my god, this… escalated.
Ally, I think you’re totally in the right here, and shouldn’t have been made to feel triggered and attacked in that way.
I would really hate to lose your voice here in the comment threads because you always have such interesting, important and eloquent things to add to these discussions
Fibinachi, sorry you’re feeling so crummy. I hope you feel better soon.
It would sound different to me, largely because I instinctively fused “scrotosphere” with the British term of abuse “scrote”, which essentially means “an obnoxious or contemptible person” (it’s a slightly, but only slightly, ruder form of the word “git”).
So for me (at least before this conversation), “scrotosphere” actually worked beautifully in that neatly conveyed both the exaggerated masculinity of the MRM and the fact that they’re contemptible jerks – the first time I heard the term, I immediately knew what it meant and who it was referring to. I wouldn’t make the same automatic associations with “vulvosphere”, because it wouldn’t have that double meaning.
But I imagine “scrotosphere” doesn’t have that double meaning for anyone non-British, so I can readily appreciate that other people might read the term very differently. And if people are genuinely offended by it, that’s as good a reason for not using it as any. (In fact, I’m not sure I ever did use it myself except within this post, so it’s no great loss.)
@Fibinachi
I’ll try to restate the most important point of that paragraph: basically, the immediate dismissal of what oppressed people say is a mark of privilege, unexamined or otherwise. And it’s wrong because oppressed people always deserve extra consideration for what they say on the issues that affect them, even if they’re wrong. It’s not about allies agreeing unconditionally with oppressed people, but rather allies approaching these dialogues as allies rather than privileged people merely making assertions in the face of oppressed people calling something out.
I’m sorry to hear that your painkillers aren’t working. You might want to consider kratom tea. It’s not the same as a painkiller, but it certainly is relaxing, which aids in pain relief, obviously.
Woah woah WOAH! Ally and HellKell are leaving!?
I’m not entirely sure if I’ll leave, but I’m strongly considering it. At the very least, I won’t contribute nearly as much as I used to. I’ll just lurk and continue to read WHTM from time to time.
Ally s
Yes please join us 🙁 but it’s your choice do whatever is best for you.
Just wanted to say – I have had no issues or objections to anything Ally has said. FWIW, I’m saying that as a white cis man. I would very much prefer it if both Ally and Hellkell were to decide to stay. I hope that they feel comfortable and safe enough to do so.
Oh what am I saying!? Don’t go guys! ;-;
http://gallery.raccoonfink.com/v/misc/shrek-2-puss-in-boots.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
OK, I’ve not been around for long enough to have a valid opinion but…I’d hate it if Ally and hellkell left.
But if they’re mental health would suffer by being here, then..go. Cos us missing you is less important.
Damn! Their, not they’re.
So, I wasn’t sure if i was going to say anything before leaving, but I guess I probably should just because it’s rude to leave a community you’ve been in for years with no explanation.
Anyone here know who [name redacted] is? She used to be part of the same group of friends as a good friend of mine. Then she raped multiple people. The way she was able to get away with manipulating the victims into the situations where she raped them? By accusing them of transphobia and suggesting that if they didn’t fuck her they were transphobes and hey, what would their friends think of that? The reason most of the victims kept quiet afterwards and it wasn’t until one person (my friend) heard multiple victims telling the same stories that something was done about it? Because the victims were too scared of being seen as transmisogynistic and pushed out of their community (young, mostly queer, leftist activists) to tell anyone what had happened to them. My friend wasn’t a victim, but honestly, that’s pure dumb luck. She could have been.
So when Ally decided to push the “if cis queer lesbians don’t want to fuck trans women it’s because of transmisogyny” argument here? Yeah, that made me feel pretty damn hostile. I was going to try to just deal with that, though, because there are a lot of people here who I really like and the idea of leaving the community made me sad. But now that I’m seeing almost everyone siding with the “cis lesbians not wanting sex with trans women is transmisogyny” argument, claiming that it’s not about sex, and insisting that it could never be misused to facilitate rape? Well, it already has been. And it probably will be again, as long as people keep pushing the inherently coercive idea that it’s bigotry not to want to have sex with someone and if a lesbian (or someone who’s bi – this stuff affects me too, which is why I’m shaking so badly with anger that I can barely type right now) says no to sex with a trans woman she’s a bigot and should be shamed by her community.
If it was just Ally who thought that way I could deal, but knowing that it’s not just her, it’s lots of people, I can’t participate here any more. I’ve already been feeling reminded of every other time someone has refused to respect my sexual boundaries and has tried to manipulate me into sex I didn’t want every time I see her comment, and now that I know she’s far from alone in that opinion? Nope, can’t do it any more. I’m also not willing to disrespect [name radacted’s] victims by just keeping my mouth shut and playing along. I’m out.
(Good luck to everyone with the various projects they’ve been working on, and Falconer, I hope your babies grow up strong and healthy and happy. Bye, guys.)
[NOTE FROM DF: Cassandra asked me to redact the name here b/c she is worried about the safety of all involved, including the woman whose name I’ve readacted.]
And I know I would never think or support that, cassandrakitty. I don’t think anyone here would. It sounds like a giant misunderstanding due to lack of knowledge of triggers.
Yeah, I mostly lurk and I do not understand what is going on…and I’m a lesbian.
I’ve stayed out of the bits of the conversation that tend to focus on areas I don’t understand. That’s not supporting one person over another, that’s me completely confused.