If the Men’s Rights movement is looking for a celebrity endorser, I think I’ve found just the guy for them: the mixed martial arts fighter, and erstwhile porn actor, War Machine, currently sitting in jail on charges of brutally beating and attempting to kill his ex-girlfriend, porn star Christy Mack.
Men’s Rights activists should be able to look past these criminal charges; after all, as they remind us all the time, women are forever falsely accusing innocent men of all sorts of terrible things.
And in so many ways War Machine is perfect for them. An MMA fighter, he’s already only one letter away from being an MRA. A misogynistic asshole with rage issues, he’ll have no trouble fitting in with the Men’s Rights crowd. And, especialy important for a movement that has a lot of trouble getting any good PR, he’s a bit more comfortable on camera than the Paul Elams and Dean Esmays of the world, with experience on television (on the reality show The Ultimate Fighter: Team Hughes vs. Team Serra), and in seven films (albeit pornographic ones).
Best of all: he’ll need no ideological education from what A Voice for Men likes to call Fuck Shit Up University. War Machine – real name Jonathan Koppenhaver – is already an outspoken proponent of many of the Men’s Rights Movement’s core beliefs.
Consider these selections from a little Men’s Rights manifesto War Machine wrote a few years ago during a previous stint behind bars, serving time for felony assault after two bloody bar fights. His rant, which a friend posted to the internet, would fit right in with the sort of stuff we’ve seen regularly posted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, or The Spearhead, or A Voice for Men. I’ve bolded some of the Men’s Rightsiest bits:
The oppression of MEN is worse than oppression of Jews in Nazi germany, worse than the slavery of Blacks in early America…
There has always been the oppressor and always the oppressed. Before, it was blatant … NOW the oppressor has learned to disguise his evil. You can see man, but you can not see MEN. How easy it is to oppress a minority that is invisible to the eye! How genius of the oppressor! And what a better target too! …
Men challenge injustice from Government, MEN fight for their Constitutional rights, that are slowly being taken away every year. …
And they don’t just oppress us by making more laws and taking away more freedom, they are far more clever than that! Ask yourself what your REAL dream was?? If you gave up on this dream, why? Because of the brainwashing of the Government, that’s why! They taught you to “play it safe.” They told us a responsible man has ONE wife, a house, good credit, good job, and kids. How are you supposed to chase your dreams while maintaining all of that!?
Men are supposed to take risks and be aggressive! What accomplishments have ever come of a man scared to risk it all!? None!? Where would the world be? Still ‘flat!’ Still ‘Earth at the center of the universe!’
If any of you have your Men’s Rights Bingo cards out, I’m guessing you might already be close to scoring a bingo. We’ve got a comparison to slavery that could have come straight from the pages of A Voice for Men, a marriage-is-death-to-male-dreams rant that could have been borrowed from any MGTOW forum, and an evo-psych-esque argument that men are the true risk-takers and the world’s real innovators.
And I don’t think War Machine would have much trouble with Paul Elam’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month,” either.
[I]t’s Christmas day and I’m laying in my bunk wondering “Why in the hell do American men get married!?” … If your wife is being a bitch you can’t slap her, if your wife is yelling at you, God forbid you yell back … Next thing you know it will be illegal to fuck your wife! LMAO! Maybe then, MEN in this country will get the fucking hint and MOVE! This country forces you to be a bitch!
In another online posting, War Machine touched on another Men’s Rights hobbyhorse, the notion that the justice system is stacked against men:
[L]ook at the prisons, they are FULL of MEN, not women. Are men “evil” and women not? Or do the laws target and attempt to restrict NATURAL MEN’S BEHAVIOR? How many of the HEROES in American history would avoid prison if they lived today? Davey Crockett? Thomas Jefferson? David Bowie? General Grant & General Lee? Shit, George Washington. … Laws target MEN and men’s behavior. Women want to bitch and cry about their rights and equality… LMAO! MEN are the ones locked away like animals, while women run free!
Someone might have to explain to War Machine that David Bowie is not actually a famous American HERO but a famously androgynous British musician who once recorded an album called “Heroes.” (Mr. Machine may be thinking of James Bowie, a well-known 19th century American frontiersman and slave trader, and the guy the Bowie Knife is named after.)
But other than that, he seems ready to go.
There is, of course, that whole attempted murder charge to deal with.
It’s true the Men’s Rights Movement has had few problems in the past rallying behind men with histories of violence. But War Machine might be a harder sell as a Men’s Rights hero. His alleged attack on Mack left her with a cracked rib, a ruptured liver, numerous broken bones, missing teeth and her eyes swollen shut. (See here for photos of her injuries; obviously this link is NSFW and could be triggering.)
While Mr. Machine denies attacking Mack, he joked to a TV host last year that if she were to leave him “I would just kill her” and get a tattoo saying “Rest In Peace” above the tattoo of her name he has on his neck.
And several hours after allegedly trying to murder her, War Machine tweeted this lovely message about his ex:
https://twitter.com/WarMachine170/statuses/497663075831787521
War Machine does seem to be at a low point in his life. Even aside from the charges he faces, and the time he seems likely to serve, his career in porn is almost certainly over. The “Alpha Male” clothing line he helped start wants nothing to do with him. Nobody but the prison system seems to want this guy.
In other words: Men’s Rights activists, this is your chance! War Machine may not be the, er, hero you want. But he’s certainly the hero you deserve.
I don’t post often, but I would like to also say that I was uncomfortable with the treatment of Ally and am unsure why it matters where a term was coined if it can be read as problematic. I was under the impression that people here were in with the genitals=/=gender thing. if scrotosphere=manosphere, wouldn’t that mean that scrotum=men? IDK, it probably isn’t my place to talk about this since I’m cis, but like…would it really hurt anything to just not use scrotosphere anymore? :/
Isn’t this “dogpiling” in the other direction by now?
Obviously, Ally’s problem with the word “scrotosphere” is that she has male genitals but identifies as a woman and does not want to be lumped in with men as a group in this way. I think that we don’t NEED this word and so might not miss it all that much if it’s upsetting to a certain segment of our group. I wonder if we would be comfortable talking about the “vulvosphere”?
I also feel that we jumped too hard on whoever it was who first used the phrase “bearing the brunt” — it was not a well-chosen phrase, but I don’t think it was really intended to mean that non-trans women don’t face high levels of violence — I don’t think anyone who knows anything about violence against women would intentionally make a statement like that. Sometimes people choose words poorly, particularly when they’re upset. I’m a professional writer, and In try hard to be precise in my language, but I still make a lot of mistakes. (Last night, I wrote “we men” when I meant to say “we men who were commenting on Ally’s post at the time”, and I was properly taken to task for it.)
MRA’s honestly believe that kicking the crap out of another person over any imagined slight is “natural men’s behavior,” and they want us to believe that *feminists* are the ones who hate men?
I understood Ally’s meaning, but still winced. “Men are frightening” means something different than “Men frighten me”.
And while I’m not at all attached to ‘scrotosphere’, if there were an online group of cis women who went on and on about how their vaginas were the source of ‘liquid gold’ or what have you, I’d be totally cool with calling them the ‘vulvasphere’, since they are focused so intently on their vulvas.
Re: Kevin Sorbo – boo! I am disappoint. A few years ago he was in town and wanted to do an improv show, so hooked up with a local group here (one of my former instructors is in the group), and it was a riot. He was such a good sport.
Okay, I’m back. I know I said I flounced, but this is actually really bothering me, guys.
Here’s what’s bothering me. Do you guys remember that driveby commenter we had a while back? Her name was something like What’s The Point? or Just Give Up, and in a post on abusive men, she basically said there was no point in fighting back, the men always win in the end, and she at least heavily implied that she was in an abusive relationship and was going to kill herself. (My memory’s fuzzy; I want to say she said so outright.)
I remember that every Mammoth who responded, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ME, offered this woman, who nobody had ever seen before, support and kindness, offering her assistance. Not one person told her that not all men were abusive, that she was being hypocritical saying that in a blog run by David Futurelle. NOT ONE OF YOU.
Why? Because you knew she was saying that out of pain. This was a woman in agony, and all of you knew it, and you prioritized her pain over her statement about men. You guys KNEW that, and it is behavior like that that has made me proud to be with you guys.
Ally is a regular, someone we know, and we know that she is someone in pain. All of you know that. We helped her run away, remember? She’s been talking here about how often she’s been going through suicidal ideation, about the abusive family she still isn’t entirely free of. SHE IS SPEAKING OUT OF PAIN. In my opinion, she deserves just as much kindness and support as Just Give Up.
What I don’t understand is why we gave Just Give Up, a stranger none of us knew, more benefit of the doubt than Ally. I do not understand what the hell is going on and why Ally’s statement is apparently so controversial when NOBODY said anything like this with Just Give Up.
Have I missed something here? Is there some conversation I missed? Because right now, I have to say, I’m actually kind of horrified, and saddened. Come on, guys. You’re my friends. This is actually really upsetting me right now.
@LBT, To be fair I think a bunch of people are supporting Ally here, but I also think you’re raising a good point. I’m sorry I didn’t provide Ally with more timely support.
K, so I’m going to leave my two cents here:
I don’t really agree with some things Ally’s said, the thing about “scrotosphere” being one of them because it’s meant to mock dudes who value everything dudely, from biological sex to gender identity to gender expression, so long as it’s dudely. Basically, what Tracy said about a “vulvasphere”.
However, Ally’s “men are fucking terrifying” wasn’t something that bothered me. Every new man who victimizes me makes me feel that just a little more. There are times I want to throw my hands up because it feels like the only way to be remotely safe is to assume every single man is a predator until he does something that convinces me otherwise. I don’t want to feel that way, and I don’t feel that all the time, and there are definitely men I trust and love and respect and look up to (some right on this very blog), but yeah it is a thing I feel. I mean, unless my creepdar goes off, or the opposite (safe-man-dar?) does, I have no way of knowing whether any given dude will be the next who tries to hurt me. So it feels safer to assume the worst.
Well, I wasn’t here for Just Give Up, but seconding what LBT said about speaking from pain.
While I think scrotosphere’s funny, if someone’s hurt by it I’m willing to set it aside.
I did joke that using it to refer to MRM webspace was rather an insult to nutsacks.
(…The poor, innocent, sensitive nutsacks. Won’t you think of them?)
The fact is, most cishet men are not anti-feminist, so there’s a lot of people who are like minded unto me who nonetheless have scrota, and I don’t want to unintentionally hurt those people.
I think not hurting people’s pretty important.
Also, here’s a takedown of the cotton ceiling horseshit. Basically, a bunch of transphobes used the actual cotton ceiling (trans women feeling othered and degraded in cis queer circles) to act as though trans women were forcing cis lesbians to have sex with them. Because that’s totally how trans women work. It’s not about body images and shame, guys! It’s about raping cis people. That’s not a harmful stereotype of trans women AT ALL.
I’m actually getting pissed now. Come on, guys, I didn’t think you believed this Cathy Brennan horseshit.
I didn’t say anything because I was just like…Oh, okay…and wasn’t going to use that term.
I’ve been in lurkmode on this thread until now . . .but, I feel I need to just say one thing . . .
I basically agree with everything LBT said and I don’t really get why Ally’s comments have become such a huge issue, especially since she agreed to desist after someone said they were a little bothered . . .
but, one thing, I looked back for Just Give Up’s comment, and if we are talking about the same person, she didn’t say anything about all men being abusive. She just said she was tired of being abused and of other women being abused (and even that didn’t read as “all women” just other victims of domestic violence). So I think the reason nobody contradicted her about all men being abusive is that she didn’t say that.
Hey, could you link it for me, grumpycatisagirl? I was worried I got it wrong, but couldn’t find it, because I’m dumb.
Kittehs, I’m not sure I understand what the Cotton Ceiling meme has to do with the current conversation. And I don’t get why you think everyone “just nodded along” when it came up a while back, because several of us were quite adamant in our objections and it caused a lot of hurt feelings on both sides. I don’t blame you if you’re still smarting from that clusterfuck, but I don’t see the point of bringing it up in this thread.
Look, I’ve side-eyed the “scrotosphere” thing too, because I thought that as a community we knew better than to conflate male body parts with men and vice versa. The explanation that it’s about the body part the MRAs value most is well taken, and while I don’t share Ally’s reading of it, I son’t think she was out of line to question it in the first place.
As for “men are fucking terrifying”: I’ve felt that way too when reading stories like this, having also been terrorized by men in the past. I’m pretty sure Schrodinger’s Rapist could be boild down to a similar statement (“Men are potential threats to women”, maybe?). Maybe I’ve been spending too much time among radfems, among whom “men are fucking terrifying” is something of a catchphrase, because I’m a little surprised that such a comment was controversial in a feminist space. And I’m really surprised that people here who have previously made fun of “not all men” were suddenly saying it with straight faces.
I think it’s worthwhile for the community to hash these things out, rather than letting resentments fester, but if people are finding it more painful than productive then I can put my Mod Hat on.
@ LBT… Does anyone outside of transphobic radical feminist circles believe this stuff? Not that it’s not toxic stuff, but I sort of thought of it as something that was…well, more prevalent among old radical feminists.
Mary Daly…the old woman’s dead, but we’re still living with the artefacts of her prejudice.
@LBT the comment I saw was on this thread: https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/05/the-e-day-concert-that-wasnt-the-canadian-association-for-equality-turns-a-pr-disaster-into-a-pr-catastrophe/comment-page-1/#comments
It’s not a very long comment, but I didn’t just want to cut and paste it in this thread because that didn’t seem right somehow. . . .
I’ve been trying to stay out of this because I don’t like conflict with people I like, but I agree with LBT and I don’t mind not using the term scrotosphere if Ally finds it problematic. The intent with the term certainly isn’t transphobic, but you know what they say about intent not being magic.
…Maybe a better wording of “men are fucking terrifying,” might be “Men are a trigger to me?”…
RE: emilygoddess
Thank you. I’m kind of with you RE: the scrotosphere too; I kinda had similar misgivings about the old site name, Manboobz. Yes, I know it’s not intended to be about trans people, I know, which is why I didn’t say anything, but it’s definitely a thing that is there.
RE: blahlistic
Apparently so. 🙁 Which really saddens me.
I mean, I’m not going to wade into the clusterfuck that is the socialization of sexual attraction (gag) but I think it’s perfectly reasonable for trans people to sometimes get fed up with hearing fellow queers say over and over that they can’t be attractive unless they pass as cis. (Except chasers. Who will find you attractive right up until you stop looking “trans enough” for them, at which point they’ll find it a personal betrayal.)
I know a lot of trans people who flat-out refuse to date cis people, just because of all the heartache and grossness involved. There’s always that feeling of being lesser, always that feeling of “ruining” your partner’s sexuality (if Mac bangs me, he’s not bi, he’s STRAIGHT!), always that feeling that they’re either pity-fucking you or only attracted to you BECAUSE you’re trans.
It’s a complicated, personal, really painful topic for a lot of people. Hell, Mac is a wonderful hubby to me, I’ve been with him for years, and I STILL feel sometimes like a fake gay man. It’s why I take on the “real men” trolls so hard, because they’re saying what deep in my soul, I sometimes think of myself.
Was this the comment? https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/05/the-e-day-concert-that-wasnt-the-canadian-association-for-equality-turns-a-pr-disaster-into-a-pr-catastrophe/comment-page-1/#comment-505705
Thank you very much, grumpycat! I really appreciate you going and digging up this old comment! (Though apparently the link isn’t quite working, so here’s the specific comment.
The line I was most thinking of is: “I tell women now just don’t bother telling it asking for help, just go home and honestly give up and wait until your time to go.”
In my opinion, that line is WAY more controversial than Ally’s, since it’s actively telling other abuse victims to just wait to die. But like I said, everyone was kind to her, because they knew she was speaking from a place of pain and (hopefully) was not actually going up to other abuse victims and saying, “Just die. Give up. There’s no point.”
Ninjaed by pallygirl!
Yes, LBT, I think you are absolutely right there. It was a pretty shocking thing to say but the Mammotheers were appropriately compassionate given the context.
But she got pushback on that particular comment, it didn’t slide.