Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.
What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.
When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.
I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.
This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.” AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.
But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.
Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.
Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.
I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.
And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.
Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.
Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:
I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.
In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”
I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.
But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.
That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:
Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.
This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.
Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!
Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.
Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:
Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.
Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.
While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that
feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .
Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should
Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.
Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.
You get the idea.
There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”
Irony, you’re doing it wrong.
Fun fact: Lewis Carroll invented the term portmanteau word.
In light of IB22’s icon, I find this humorous. (I’d say ironic, but Lewis Carroll was a man and therefore I cannot attach irony to his name. Sorry, Rev. Dodgson.)
You noticed that fallacy too, eh? I didn’t want to go down that side-track, but I’m glad you whipped out your dictionary.
And yes, irony can most certainly leap up to bite a person. But that doesn’t make it a “passive-aggressive attack”, by any definition. More often, it’s just that person’s own self-made errors, idiocies, etc. doing the biting.
Or in this case, it’s Inanity hitting herself in the face with all those missed roundhouse punches she’s trying to aim at other people, the government (also other people), etc. Very ironic, that.
LBT: Argh, people who get pushy about “caring” for you like that are just awful. If someone needs power over me to care for me, I’d rather they be ambivalent! They are just so creepy.
Inanitybytes,
If you wish to live your life in a partnership with your spouse where he is ‘the protector’ and ‘the wage earner’ and you are the ‘pleasant homebody’, feel free.
I have absolutely no problem with individual people choosing that arrangement.
I do have a problem with that arrangement being thrust upon me, or having that arrangement be considered the only socially acceptable form of living, because it is not a way that I could thrive.
I’m not feminine. I’m not manly. I’m me. I am a woman, but I like building things, and throwing ladders, and doing calculus, and so many other things.
I think it’s sad that I felt obligated to write ‘but’ there, instead of simply “I am a woman: I like building things, throwing ladders, doing calculus, and so many other things” because I still feel that those things aren’t supposed to be associated with “woman”.
My parents didn’t try to condition me that way, but with school and peer interactions it was a little inevitable.
With the overarching social narrative that the only proper relationship is where the woman is economically and socially dependent on her man, people like me are sent up a creek without a paddle.
I’m for choice.
You can choose your relationship, and if you are truly happy with it “yippee!” for you. I won’t grab you, sit you at a table, and yell “QUICK! Solve this differential equation for water flowing out of a tank using runge-kutta numerical methods for this initial condition!!! GOGOGOGOGO!”
Antifeminist arguments for accepting the true value of being a wife and accepting the gift of men’s goodwill are a personal tender spot of mine, because those arguments tell me by implication that I’m subhuman, because I’m not a man and thus all my efforts in STEM, in community service, and in physical labor are inferior.
Also, because I can’t woman ‘correctly’, I’m inferior.
I don’t accept that.
I’m a person, darn it! I will be all persony, and you can’t take that away from me because I won’t let you. You can’t make me fold myself up, nice and neat, and shove myself into one of your boxes of “How the world should be”.
I’m grateful for feminism for helping me, and I’m trying to return the favor by supporting others with whatever life path they choose for themselves, because what works for me definitely won’t work for everyone.
Does that make any sense at all?
ATTENTION DAVID, EMERGENCY TYPO:
“What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor.”
You mean “…you about is…” ironic humor.
EMERGENCY OVER.
Also, seeing as how WHTM isn’t trying to be a safe place, is it really necessary to censor the word “cunt”? We all know what’s being written here. The asterisk doesn’t make the content of their message any less offensive.
Or perhaps this is just an extension of America’s war on the letter “U”? After all, I almost corrected your humor to humour out of habit. I FOUND THE REAL WAR, PEOPLE. OPEN YOUR EYES.
Also, watching JB22 try and rationalize their way out of their own bullshit is like watching a dog chase its tail.
contrapangloss, QUITE FUCKING TRUE
@Bina
Marry me.
I too would like to know what happened to John the (b)Other. And I do so hope for lots of drama in it…my Germanic sense of Schadenfreude is long overdue for a good workout. Did he get drummed out by the MRAsshats themselves, or was he forcibly extricated by a horde of eeeeevil feminists wielding boxcutters? Questions, questions…who’s got answers?
And yikes, LBT…you’ve easily got enough material to fill a couple of books, there. Sorry you had to jump through those hoops to get to a better place, but I am glad you’re out of the other one. There’s certainly a lot to criticize (and subsequently, improve) about the system, but not having one would be infinitely worse (says this socialist, socialized-medicine-liking Canadian, who is currently grousing about the difficulty of obtaining appointments with her own primary-care doctor for just a routine look into her probably-infected ear, and a ‘scrip for some antibiotic/steroid eardrops like she got last time…)
Australia has a great history of ironic humour, especially when it comes to politics, much of it formulated and performed by men and women working together. It’s pretty hard to try to claim Guys Can’t Irony after watching a couple of Clark + Dawe skits, or watching an episode of Utopia or The Hollowmen.
To me IB’s insistence that men can’t comprehend irony, passive aggression or any other “non-direct” form of communication seems underpinned by a whole bunch of cultural assumptions and tropes about men being plain-dealing straight-shootin’ no-nonsense pragmatists, and women being deceptive, obtuse, manipulative and irrational circumlocutors.
Boy, would I love to give her a day in the staff cafeteria at my hospital, eavesdropping on the employee conversations. Plenty of counteracting evidence in both directions. 😉
@strivingally I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that IB22 isn’t in the habit of collecting evidence.
More proof that she and many others of her ilk don’t live in reality. There are a ton of female comedians who are no-nonsense, straight shooting, blunt queens of all that is hilarious. These cultural assumptions are so very tiresome.
@redpoppy Ever seen Gina Yashere’s material? By god, she’s a comic genius.
Personally, I’m offended by the weakness of the wordplay. “Misogyny” doesn’t sound anything like “Brady!”
coffee, I have not! I should check her out. One of my personal favorites was Bea Arthur’s role as Dorothy on Golden Girls. While sarcastic, she was quite blunt. So was her mother, Sophia (Estelle Getty).
Out of curiosity, since I am a government employee, how evil am I on the evil index?
Hmmm.
Something here ain’t right.
@vaiyt
I prefer to think of it as IB22 admitting that there was zero real equivalence in the original statement.
Policy, don’t quote her and prove she’s being hypocritical. She’ll think we’re being mean!
I’m okay with being mean.
I should have added the /sarcasm. But I’m ok with being mean too.
If IB thinks being called on the idiotic BS she keeps posting is feminists being mean, she has led a very very very very sheltered life.
I actually just realized that if you take off the question mark and turn it into a statement, this is completely true.
“When a man protects me ‘against my will,’ that is abuse and oppression, but when the government pays for birth control*, welfare, food stamps and Medicaid, that isn’t.”
*I’m actually unaware of government paying for birth control, but I concede that if it did, that would, indeed, not be oppression.
If you just consider it as a straight question, and not as some kind of not-even-wrong gotcha, we again find truth.
“So when a man protects me ‘against my will’, that is abuse and oppression, but when the Gov pays for bc, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, that isn’t?” “You are correct, that isn’t.”
I thought IB22 was just unutterably boring, but this is actually kind of fun.
^This
People being financially interdependent is not the problem. Any cohabiting couples share some finances. Intergenerational families living together share finances. Even roommates depend on eachother to pay their share of the rent so that no one ends up evicted.
Decideing to follow traditional gender roles is not the problem. People are free to make whatever choices they feel are best in their lives. I would hope that they are true to themselves and their vision of what they want their lives to be. Choice is a wonderful thing.
The problem is claiming that one gender must be dependent and that both men and women must follow certain gendered roles, whether it suits them or not. As not everyone is straight or a man or a woman, that’s not going to work. It is also problematic to claim that for women to have things like safety and financial security, they must also give up autonomy and basic rights, like the vote or the ability to hold a job or seek and education. It is problematic to tell women that they should be forced into roles and stripped of rights for their own good. Those are not reasonable things to claim.
Off-topic: Can someone tell me what teen girls are wearing these days? I don’t want to just google “teenage girls” and get on a government watch list.
PoM,
Right? If the government offers to pay for your birth control, you can decline. No one is going to force you to take birth control or to not pay for it yourself. In this case literally nothing is being done to you or denied you against your will.
Whereas the way these men are claiming to want to “protect” women is by not allowing them to own property, hold jobs etc. Rather women must serve a man in order to not starve on the streets. Yes, that is oppression and the other is not. How can IB22 not comprehend that? How can anyone be so confused?
katz,
T-shirts and jeans are still the go to teen outfit. My daughter says lacy shirts with camis are popular. Pastels and ruffles are hot here. Sweat pants and fitted T’s are popular. Skinny jeans and faded ripped jeans are in as well as name brand tennis shoes. Those messy buns worn on the top of the head are a thing I see alot of.
Hope that helped.