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Are Men's Rights Activists incapable of understanding irony — or are they just pretending?

You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at the A Voice for Men store.
Goodnight, Paul! You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at A Voice for Men’s Red Pill store.

Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.

What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.

When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.

I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.

This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.”  AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.

But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.

Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.

Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.

I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.

And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.

Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.

Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:

I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.

In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”

I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.

But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.

That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:

misogynybunchcards

Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.

This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.

Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!

Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.

Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:

Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.

Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.

While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that

feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .

Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should

Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.

Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.

You get the idea.

There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”

Irony, you’re doing it wrong.

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sparky
sparky
10 years ago

IB22: Geez, nobody’s ridiculing “depending on a man!” If that’s what the individuals involved choose, whatever, no one cares!

It’s the “all women must depend on a man whether they like it or not!” that people are objecting. It’s the idea that women being prevented from voting, having a career, getting an education, etc. is viewed as “protection” that people are objecting too! Why do you think these thing are ok?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Let’s ignore everything LBT said about his family, shall we? It’s the evil that is receiving benefits that we need to focus on here.

Actually, a question! Since benefits are evil, should LBT be forced to move back in with his shitty family, or find a man to support…wait, there are no gay people in this theory so…LBT should find a woman to support…wait, he’s not interested in women.

I guess “starve to death” is the option you’d recommend, then?

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: sparky

You actually have a choice to not pay taxes or to not stop at traffic lights or to punch someone in the head.

Some groups take vows of poverty, insuring they make no taxable income! It seems a pretty common trick, if you’re willing to be poor.

RE: Fibinachi

You can apply for citizenship of any nation with a tax code you like.

Ennnnh. There’s issues with that. I can APPLY for citizenship wherever I want… but I highly doubt anyone will take me, being disabled and all. It’s actually one of the things being disabled made me really sad about, the idea that even if I had the money, I probably won’t be able to travel overseas and live in other countries anymore. 🙁

RE: insanitybytes22

And yet LBT provides an answer right here “I’m just saying, it’s not that I WANT to be economically dependent on my government. But the system is rigged that it’s going to be difficult as hell for me to go otherwise.”

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Do NOT put words in my mouth! Hold on a second!

I was homeless for over a year while these benefits were process. OVER A YEAR. It was not pretty.

The government did not “force me” to take their benefits. I had to fill out a lot of forms, get rejected twice, get a lawyer, and have the inner contents of my mind evaluated by multiple people until it was decided I was too crazy to survive on my own. I fucking FOUGHT for these benefits. Is it hard to leave them? Yes! But it’s fucking hard to GET THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

DO NOT take my fucking struggle and use it as your soapbox. Do not fucking do that.

GrumpyOldNurse
GrumpyOldNurse
10 years ago

No, dear. Calling you “a self-hating, dimwitted, asshat” was not misogyny, as it was a personal insult. If Lea had said something like “all women are self-hating, dimwitted, asshats”. Then that would be misogynistic. Kind of like how implying all women are passive-aggressive by saying something like “It’s a more passive/aggressive form of attack, one women are far more well versed in” actually is kind of misogynistic.

Didn’t read far enough on the thread to see if I was ninja’d or if the topic’s changed. This just kind of bugged me.

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

She’s stated in her blog that women having sex with men for any purpose other than procreation are merely semen reciprocals and that men cannot grasp irony, fibinachi. If you want to pretend that does not reflect at all on her life and the men in it, that’s cool. Her opinions do not exist in a vacuum. In fact, she’s presenting them as observabe fact. Where am I to assume she has observed these “facts”? She’s the one painting the ugly picture. I’m just letting her know what it looks like. If that’s crass, so be it. I stand by it.

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“It’s the evil that is receiving benefits that we need to focus on here.”

You must mean, that YOU need to focus on, because I’ve never said anything about the evil of benefits. Now you accuse me of wanting people to starve to death? Do you ever progress beyond hysteria and hyperbole?

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Also! What’s forcing people into needing government assistance isn’t the government.

xodima
10 years ago

Insanitybytes22, you are an asshole, a misogynist, and you seem to be a shitty person in general. You have no ground to stand on and I am almost positive that you’re an MRA who’s decided not to admit as much and created a persona with the intention of stirring shit and vilifying us. That or you’re a social conservative who does the typical conservative thing and disguises your hatred of a gender or lifestyle with a veil of false victimhood.

“Women can’t depend on men anymore! They’re forcing women to depend on the government” Bullshit. Nobody actually believes that. It’s a derailing tactic and nothing more.

You’re mad about the article, you’re trying to get back at us, it’s not working, and you should just stop wasting your time.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

IB22:

Do you ever progress beyond hysteria and hyperbole?

Do you?

And “hysteria?” Really?

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

Especially do not co-opt my struggle if you claim to be speaking for working-class and poor people!

HOW DO YOU THINK I ENDED UP HERE? It wasn’t Uncle Sam, cackling evilly in the shadows, rubbing his hands gleefully together at the thought of me taking all the money and benefits! It was a family who was really fucked up, a brain that cracked under the pressure, a lack of assistance from the society around me, an economy that insured I could not take a job that made more than poverty wages, and a housing squeeze that made rents skyrocket.

It’s not as simple as “big daddy government.” It’s a confluence of family factors, mental health, being trans, being queer, and finally, being disabled.

Do not make my fucking hardships about your pocket cause, insanitybytes22! You do not get to make my story ABOUT YOU.

GrumpyOldNurse
GrumpyOldNurse
10 years ago

@cassandrakitty – “Can I use the cockware as cookware, though? That is the question.” I don’t know about cooking with it, but certain foods can certainly be served on it.

Should I show myself out, now?

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

…and that’s still not mocking her sexuality.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

If the government is the evil, insanitybytes22, WHAT SHOULD I DO?

No, seriously, this is an honest question. In your theories of how the world works, what am I supposed to do? I honestly want to know.

Fibinachi
10 years ago

@LBT:

“Ennnnh. There’s issues with that. I can APPLY for citizenship wherever I want… but I highly doubt anyone will take me, being disabled and all. It’s actually one of the things being disabled made me really sad about, the idea that even if I had the money, I probably won’t be able to travel overseas and live in other countries anymore. :(”

Some slight good news, then! A truly large amount of countries do not immediately reject passport or visa applications by virtue of disability. So you can travel overseas, at some unspecified future point, all else permitting! 🙂

My actual point was also hidden in that. If you apply for a citizenship of sonewhere, you have to follow their rules and laws because that’s what that nationstate demands of its citizens… But I guess that’s abusive :p

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

You must mean, that YOU need to focus on, because I’ve never said anything about the evil of benefits. Now you accuse me of wanting people to starve to death? Do you ever progress beyond hysteria and hyperbole?

Jesus fucking Christ. Are you tired from moving the goalposts? Do you not know we can scroll up and see what you’ve written?

Do you think, in your heteronormative fantasyland, that it’s easy to find a man to support you? What’s the alternative to starving, if not benefits?

You are a shitweasel, lady.

redpoppy
redpoppy
10 years ago

IB22 sure likes to put words into people’s mouths. But denies vehemently doing so. But when we try to parse whatever the hell garbage she’s trying to say, OH LORD WE ARE EVIL FOR MISINTERPRETING HER.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
10 years ago

Now you accuse me of wanting people to starve to death? Do you ever progress beyond hysteria and hyperbole?

Allow me to present you an excerpt from the comment with which you emerged on this thread:

Women can be very sophisticated with their ridicule, mockery, and shame, but their intent to wound is unmistakable.

Asshole.

Fibinachi
10 years ago

@Lea:”She’s stated in her blog that women having sex with men for any purpose other than procreation are merely semen reciprocals and that men cannot grasp irony, fibinachi. If you want to pretend that does not reflect at all on her life and the men in it, that’s cool. Her opinions do not exist in a vacuum. In fact, she’s presenting them as observabe fact. Where am I to assume she has observed these “facts”? She’s the one painting the ugly picture. I’m just letting her know what it looks like. If that’s crass, so be it. I stand by it.”

I was not aware of that. That’s…. Certainly some thing.
Eeech.

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

Do you not know we can scroll up and see what you’ve written?

I’m almost convinced that she may not even understand what she’s writing.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: Fibinachi

A truly large amount of countries do not immediately reject passport or visa applications by virtue of disability. So you can travel overseas, at some unspecified future point, all else permitting! 🙂

Aw, that does make me feel a little better. …although my government actually specifically asks if I traveled outside the country to insure I’m not misusing my benefits, so. You know. Still probably won’t get to for a long time, unless I walk to Canada or Mexico.

I really would like to see the Mediterranean someday, though.

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“Are you tired from moving the goalposts? Do you not know we can scroll up and see what you’ve written?”

Why don’t you do that then, instead of lying and trying to add onto what I’ve said? Is it really that terrifying to talk to people who don’t validate your own worldview and project it back to you?

redpoppy
redpoppy
10 years ago

Hey! She just did that thing I said she did! With a heaping side of projection, too. Fun!

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Why don’t you do that then, instead of lying and trying to add onto what I’ve said? Is it really that terrifying to talk to people who don’t validate your own worldview and project it back to you?

No, shitweasel, we are going by your words. Words mean things.

You’re far from terrifying. I could give a fuck about your worldview, but you keep coming here and sharing.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Why don’t you do that then, instead of lying and trying to add onto what I’ve said? Is it really that terrifying to talk to people who don’t validate your own worldview and project it back to you?

Honestly, you should just be talking to yourself. You ask the most insightful questions. If you want someone to engage you on your terms, I present to you this comment from sparky. Focus on that. Or flounce. Either way.

Nova
Nova
10 years ago

I would highly suggest AVFM consider merchandise that people would actually want their faces on. Toilet paper and cat box liners come to mind.

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