Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.
What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.
When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.
I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.
This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.” AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.
But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.
Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.
Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.
I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.
And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.
Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.
Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:
I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.
In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”
I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.
But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.
That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:
Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.
This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.
Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!
Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.
Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:
Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.
Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.
While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that
feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .
Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should
Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.
Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.
You get the idea.
There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”
Irony, you’re doing it wrong.
@kirbywarp
I can’t remember if I’ve seen it from trolls here, trolls on reddit, or both. But it’s come up multiple times, and it never gets less funny.
“We know, cupcake, we know you don’t get it.”
How charming. I just had those exact same words posted to me on an MRA blog along with the accusation of shitting on the rug. So are you the same person or is the alleged misogyny of a so called feminist simply identical to the words used by MRA’s? In which case, how am I to identify the difference between your abuse and the misogynistic kind?
“Why do you think it’s not abusive to force someone to do something against their will?”
It’s actually a complicated issue, but we force people to do things against their will all the time. Paying taxes, stopping at traffic lights, not punching somebody in the head when they really deserve it. We force people who are suicidal into the hospital, we force people into drug treatment, we force people to pay court fines. Our society is filled with things people agree to do, “against their will.”
Well, at least when she’s banned, insanitybytes will get a little bit of blog fodder about how MRAs and feminists are both so mean.
YOU GOT ME, I’M AN MRA!
You know, if more than one person thinks you’re a problem, you might be a problem. That’s assuming this ever happened, which I doubt.
Not being nice to you is not abuse.
IB22, honey, it would be misogynistic if we implied that you’re a dimwitted asshat who should fuck off specifically because you’re a woman.
You know, kind of like how you implied that all women are conniving, passive aggressive jerks due to their being women.
Insulting a woman is not misogyny. Insulting a woman because she is a woman or by using gendered slurs, however, is. When you can show us where we called you any kind of gendered slur, or insulted you on the basis of your gender, I’m sure the perpetrating parties will be quite willing to apologize, especially if you apologize for your transgressions first.
Also, I would LOVE to be economically independent from the government. Except I crunch the numbers, and to do the work least dangerous on my health, I would have to be self-employed. Which means I’d have to pay 30% taxes on everything, PLUS buy my own healthcare, which would probably cost a wad since I require regular mental healthcare to stay stable.
This means it is actually way more expensive for me to be independent! Right now, I live quite comfortably on roughly $700 a month. If I were to lose all government support, I’d have to make twice that to stay afloat, due to food costs, healthcare, and the self-employment tax.
I’m just saying, it’s not that I WANT to be economically dependent on my government. But the system is rigged that it’s going to be difficult as hell for me to go otherwise. Especially since if I leave the system and have another mental break (just saying I survive it, I mean), it’ll take AT LEAST a year for me to get back into it again. One year, with precious little savings, because I am forbidden to save more than $2000 under the disability rules.
I don’t like this situation at all. It’s just better than starving in the street.
It takes special talent to have everyone you encounter think that you’re an idiot, regardless of their political perspective and how well it lines up with yours.
Technically, we do not “force them”. We assume their voluntary consent, and ask that if they disagree, they go elsewhere.
They have the choice to do so. You can apply for citizenship of any nation with a tax code you like.
The “social contract” ideal then also mean “they” get something in return – taxes, not being punched, suicide help.
In your examples, if I pay a court fine, I am being forced. What if I pay for an item in a market?
Mind you, Insanitybytes 22. You didn’t answer if it was abusive or not, or what you thought.
Also I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that there probably are roughly zero people who identify as asshole-gendered, because that is not a thing related to gender at all. I’m also pretty sure there are lots of people who do self-identify as assholes, and that they span all gender categories pretty well, as do the segment of people who have been identified as assholes by others, like our pumpkin muffin Inanity, here.
Oh the irony of encountering such misogyny in a thread attempting to mock misogyny.
Are you dishonest or just not terribly clever?
Having your head wedged up you ass is not a gendered thing. Men are capable of it too.
It is not misogyny to point out character flaws and short comings in a woman. It is misogyny to pretend certain negative characteristics, like being passive aggressive, applies to all women.
You aren’t all women and for the record, I don’t hate you at all. I pity you. I feel sorry for a woman who thinks she gives up her autonomy to have sex. I find you amusing, because you remind me of Michael Scott. You’re so convinced that you’re enlightened and full of wisdom, but you’re really just about as sharp as a marble.
Welcome to the slippery slope argument, where you ignore the “why” and “how” and pretend that one “what” leads to every other “what.” Paying taxes is fine? Then men should have control over women and prevent them from having jobs or voting, ya know, for their own good. Please enjoy your stay, and watch your step!
*crash*
Oh dear, bestiality is now legal.
IB22: You actually have a choice to not pay taxes or to not stop at traffic lights or to punch someone in the head. There’s just, y’know, consequences to those actions that most people would rather avoid. Court fees are the consequence of an action, and you can choose not to pay those, too; but again, those things have consequences that most people want to avoid.
We force suicidal people into treatment with the understanding that suicidal people are in a crisis and are unable to think clearly at the moment, and the length of time is limited, by law, that a person can be forced into a treatment program against their will.
No, what we’re talking about is women being forced, against their will, out of careers and paychecks and forced to not vote, an forced to be their father’s and husband’s property and have no say over their lives. At all. No choices. At all.
Why do you think that’s not abusive?
I can make a guess as to the thought process, though.
Oh! By the by, I did find Lea’s comment about your partner crass. Wrong, even. You are still, by any measure, judging from your words and actions here, an asshole.
@LBT:
That sucks.
Both, and it’s the toxic gas of internet personae.
“Not being nice to you is not abuse”
Does that apply to men too, or only to special snowflakes like you? Because I assure you, when a man uses those kind of demeaning personal insults, I take it he intended verbal abuse.
Oh, one more thing before I peace out to take advantage of my super-fun socialized Canadian healthcare to see if my kidneys are trying to kill me again: I’m hella confused as to how “being forcibly taken care of by men” is being equated with “receiving government benefits”, since last I checked, receiving government benefits was the opposite of involuntary and, in fact, required jumping through a lot of hoops and filling out a lot of forms in order to request said benefits, let alone receive them.
blockquote fail. Sorry.
Aw, kitten, are you upset? Do you need a nap? Your mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
A man not being nice is not necessarily abuse. Are you often in a situation where people are insulting you?
Notice that every single one of these things are geared towards creating a society where diverse people can live together the way they choose. Taxes build roads and pay for schools. Stopping at traffic lights prevents death while enabling travel. Not punching somebody in the head prevents violence, because everyone in a fight thinks the other really does deserve it. Suicide and drug treatment don’t always have the best implementation, but again they are foremost societal goods. Court fines and prison sentences are enforcement of the rules that keeps society functioning.
Women being subservient to men? Works fine if a particular man and women would like to live that type of life, but global enforcement serves no benefit while only being neutral or detrimental.
I have a feeling this troll is going to pop GLORIOUSLY.
I’m very excited about the coming flounce. They’re great in real time.
We’ve already gotten “asshole is a gender” and “paying taxes is exactly like women having no rights, and the latter is preferable to the former.”
What else could possible be next?
@sparky:
“You all are being mean to me, a woman! And you call yourself feminists! This is unthinkable, you’re exactly like the MRAs! I hope my purposeful
flailingtrolling has taught you a valuable lesson. Au Revoir, I shall now go write on my blog about how mean you are.”“last I checked, receiving government benefits was the opposite of involuntary and, in fact, required jumping through a lot of hoops and filling out a lot of forms in order to request said benefits, let alone receive them.”
And yet LBT provides an answer right here “I’m just saying, it’s not that I WANT to be economically dependent on my government. But the system is rigged that it’s going to be difficult as hell for me to go otherwise.”
The system IS rigged. More and more people are now being forced against their will into government dependence. I was really curious as to why the force of Gov was being perceived as benevolent, while depending on a man was to be ridiculed.
The straw feminists in Inanity’s head are working overtime.