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Are Men's Rights Activists incapable of understanding irony — or are they just pretending?

You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at the A Voice for Men store.
Goodnight, Paul! You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at A Voice for Men’s Red Pill store.

Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.

What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.

When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.

I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.

This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.”  AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.

But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.

Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.

Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.

I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.

And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.

Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.

Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:

I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.

In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”

I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.

But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.

That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:

misogynybunchcards

Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.

This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.

Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!

Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.

Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:

Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.

Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.

While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that

feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .

Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should

Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.

Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.

You get the idea.

There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”

Irony, you’re doing it wrong.

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LBT
LBT
10 years ago

It’s a penis, wrapped in a tadger, inside of a willy!

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“There was nothing misogynistic on calling you a self-hating, dimwitted asshat who should fuck off.”

Says who?? I’m pretty sure that “dimwitted asshat” and the other assorted disparaging remarks casting doubt on my cognitive function, my sexuality, my husband, were not intended as irony.

“Irony is a literary device, where the literal meaning of a statement is understood to be the opposite of the intended meaning.,,”

I understand what you are saying, but actually that falls more in the direction of satire and sarcasm. My favorite definition of irony is “a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning.” Irony attempts to hand you back your own perception of reality and asks you to examine it for logic.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Ah, I get it, insanitybytes is pretending that she doesn’t know what “misogyny” means. It’s irony, or something.

David & mods, insanitybytes challenge where she has to answer one question for each comment she posts?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Says who?? I’m pretty sure that “dimwitted asshat” and the other assorted disparaging remarks casting doubt on my cognitive function, my sexuality, my husband, were not intended as irony.

My favorite definition of irony is “a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning.”

Leave. The smug is overwhelming.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

The blockquote monster finally caught up with me. Since it couldn’t catch me, it just took away my box.

That second paragraph should also be in a blockquote.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I’m pretty sure that “dimwitted asshat” and the other assorted disparaging remarks casting doubt on my cognitive function, my sexuality, my husband, were not intended as irony.

No, jackass, those were straight-up insults. You weren’t being insulted for being female. You’re being insulted because because you’re an asshole.

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“Why can’t you answer that question? Or cassandrakitty’s question? Are you afraid to?”

Obviously I’m absolutely petrified which is why I have blogged and written about it so extensively. I seem to recall I asked you a question, why is it perceived as bad for men and women to exist in any kind of economic inter-dependence, but reliance on the government is a good thing that should be promoted? That wasn’t irony, I genuinely don’t get the concept of “all men bad, all government good.”

tcwill00
tcwill00
10 years ago

My favorite definition of irony is “a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning.”

No, that’s Plato. And he’s a condescending dick who needs to control the conversation so he can win.

And hello, dictionary troll.

gilshalos
10 years ago

You were not insulted because you are a woman, nor were you insulted by people who hate women. I’d say that rules out misogyny.
As a rough guess, I’d say you were insulted for coming here, patronising people, failing to answer rebuttals on another thread, using the rebuttals* to write up an insulting post on your blog about this blog, returning, still not answering questions, then insulting women, men, and everyone else.

*Thanks to Robot Hugs, all I can see is the ‘butt’ in that word 🙂

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

I offer a question to start off the ib22 challenge, if she doesn’t want to bother explaining why government assistance is oppressive. What is the connection between “dimwitted asshat” and your sexuality or partner? Seriously, spell this one out here. Bonus points if you can do so in a way that explains how pretending there is a connection attempts ” to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous.”

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
10 years ago

I seem to recall I asked you a question, why is it perceived as bad for men and women to exist in any kind of economic inter-dependence, but reliance on the government is a good thing that should be promoted? That wasn’t irony, I genuinely don’t get the concept of “all men bad, all government good.”

Really? At least half a dozen people responded to your question at length.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I genuinely don’t get the concept of “all men bad, all government good.”

We know, cupcake, we know you don’t get it.

Here’s a question: where did you see “all men bad, all government good?” Did you not read the thread after you shit on the rug?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

In today’s edition of “words mean things”…

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

David & mods, insanitybytes challenge where she has to answer one question for each comment she posts?

I second this. It’s starting to get annoying.

insanitybytes22: Why yes, I do think you’re terrified of answering those questions because the answers won’t make you look too good. Also, gumdrop, I answered your question about the government. Lots of people did. I the thread that I linked to. Go read it. Your blog entry didn’t answer the questions asked of you. Now, I repeat: Why do you think it’s not abusive to force someone to do something against their will?

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“No, jackass, those were straight-up insults. You weren’t being insulted for being female. You’re being insulted because because you’re an asshole.”

No. Since I fully and intentionally identify as female and not as “asshole,” your attack was directly related to my gender. It’s also extremely sexist because you are implying that I haven’t got the ability to think for myself and any deviation from your superior wisdom is obviously and indication I am a defective unit, hence an asshole.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

She really doesn’t know words mean things.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

No, IB22, it literally means you’re an asshole.

Or do only women have assholes?

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
10 years ago

Since I fully and intentionally identify as female and not as “asshole,” your attack was directly related to my gender. It’s also extremely sexist because you are implying that I haven’t got the ability to think for myself and any deviation from your superior wisdom is obviously and indication I am a defective unit, hence an asshole.

This is a new take on “asshole” being a gendered insult. 10/10 for mental gymnastics. 0/10 for everything else.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Inanity: I think you can think for yourself, it’s just that you’re not smart. You’d be not smart if you were a dude.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

And, just to add additional motivation, I’ll even proffer an answer to a question.

I seem to recall I asked you a question, why is it perceived as bad for men and women to exist in any kind of economic inter-dependence, but reliance on the government is a good thing that should be promoted?

Economic interdependence between people is not a bad thing. It’s kind of an unavoidable consequence of partnering up in society. Relationships can work out in a variety of ways, with one spouse working and the other staying at home, both spouses working, etc.

Notice I avoid using “men” or “women.” This is because of the real problem with your setup; you think women should be dependent economically on men. For all your talk about symbiotic relationships (between men and women, avoiding any mention of non-binary or non-hetero couples), there is no symmetry or flexibility in your apparent ideal world. Men and women have their place, their role they should fill because of their gender, and those roles are not equal or interchangeable.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I identify as Scottish, therefore if you say that I’m a terrible dancer it’s because you hate Scottish people.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Listen, IB, when you want to “make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning,” you have to understand your opponent’s position. By god, you understand gendered insults just as poorly as the inhabitance of /r/tumblrinaction. You’re like the racist who tries to point out the absurdity of PC by saying that you can’t insult a person who is black without being racist, or disagree with a person who is a woman without being sexist.

I predict a modding rather soon if this keeps up.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: insanitybytes22

why is it perceived as bad for men and women to exist in any kind of economic inter-dependence, but reliance on the government is a good thing that should be promoted?

*sigh* I don’t know why I’m bothering, but okay, I’ll answer you. I am disabled. My family can not and will not take care of me. (Not just me, either; our brother was homeless, squatting in a friend’s apartment, while our parents went on safari in Botswana. Pretty sure they skipped his college graduation for that.) My family is actively detrimental to my health if I am around them. I chose homelessness over being around them.

I don’t LIKE relying on the government. Believe me, if I had a better option, I would’ve long since exercised it. But my government, as fucked-up as it is, has not left me with known child-molesters. My government has not outright asked me to take pills and die for its convenience. My government is full of bureaucracy and policies I don’t like, and I highly disagree with how it treats a lot of people.

But it is better than my family. And I know a lot of people with way worse families than mine. I don’t want them to ever have to experience the homelessness I have. I don’t want them to have to engage in “economic inter-dependence” with someone that awful just to maintain food and shelter.

Also, I know plenty of people dependent on their spouses. That’s not the problem. The problem is when they have no recourse, so can not leave.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

It does kind of feel like Tumblr just threw up on Manboobz, doesn’t it?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

@bunnybunny:

I have to say, I’ve never seen someone try to argue that “asshole” was a gender (or comparable to one, anyway).

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