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Are Men's Rights Activists incapable of understanding irony — or are they just pretending?

You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at the A Voice for Men store.
Goodnight, Paul! You can buy your own Misogyny Bunch pillow for only $19.19 at A Voice for Men’s Red Pill store.

Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.

What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.

When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.

I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.

This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.”  AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.

But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.

Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.

Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.

I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.

And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.

Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.

Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:

I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.

In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”

I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.

But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.

That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:

misogynybunchcards

Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.

This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.

Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!

Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.

Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:

Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.

Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.

While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that

feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .

Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should

Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.

Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.

You get the idea.

There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”

Irony, you’re doing it wrong.

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contrapangloss
10 years ago

… and I guess I’m confirming I’m a woman, because I can’t help but keep snarking away…

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
10 years ago

Aunt Edna, I think you are onto something. Many MRAs seem to be extremely literal. They don’t grasp that words have both denotative and connotative meanings. I feel like that ties in with the lack of empathy. If it doesn’t happen to me, then it doesn’t happen ever.

Or maybe they are just completely full of shit and don’t really care about the truth so much as as they do taking out their “enemies” by any means possible.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
10 years ago

@Anarchonist:

“(…) I think the “women are better at interpersonal skills” is just a sexist way of saying that every bad thing a man does to a woman is actually the woman’s fault, since she has this amazing supernatural ability to discern a man’s true motivations, while the man only understands stuff spelled out for him.”

Yup, that’s the prevailing wisdom, or what passes for it in MRA circles. Though that also depends on the time of the day; cuz sometimes, between, say, noon and 8 pm, it’s just the other way around: teh menz see clearly through teh wimminz’ ebul motives, while teh wimminz remain in the dark about them and would greatly benefit from having teh menz explain them, if only they could listen. But we all know how teh wimminz are, so no chance of that.*

@YoullNeverGuess:

“Many MRAs seem to be extremely literal. They don’t grasp that words have both denotative and connotative meanings. I feel like that ties in with the lack of empathy. If it doesn’t happen to me, then it doesn’t happen ever.

Or maybe they are just completely full of shit and don’t really care about the truth so much as as they do taking out their “enemies” by any means possible.”

All irony aside, it is true — and those traits / tendencies you mention (literalness and lack of empathy, and seeking out enemies, via projection, to then take out by any means possible) are not mutually exclusive; in fact, they go hand in hand.

*That was (an attempt at) irony, in case it is not clear to, you know, teh menz out there. 😉

Nequam
Nequam
10 years ago

“Baldrick, you don’t know what ‘irony’ is, do you?”

“Of course I do. It’s like goldy or bronzy, only made of iron.”

Oddly enough, that IS a legit (if obsolete) definition of “irony”. I found this out while thinking about words like “tinny” and “silvery”, which led me to look up the etymology of “irony” in the sense we usually use it.

cosmicrays
cosmicrays
10 years ago

> When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.

Sounds similar to when Paul Elam writes an essay he explicitly describes as satire and then generations of feminists and their apologists take him to task for it, describing it as serious, and failing to note the underlying horror of the original essay he is mocking.

Oh no, that actually sounds worse.

Heal thyself.

JDF
JDF
10 years ago

Wait, isn’t anyone going to mention Ivyshoots’ brilliant take on the Brady Bunch song lyrics upthread? That comment made my day!

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

Men aren’t good at irony? Where did all those male comedians come from then? Why is my husband so clever and funny?

Between IB22’s comments about sex with men and now about men not getting irony, I’m starting to form a picture of her significant other and it’s not a pretty picture.

How’s this for passive aggressive, IB22?

Fuck off. You’re a self-hating, dimwitted, asshat.

Fibinachi
10 years ago

Ivyshoots song tribute to the Misogyny Bunch is brilliant. I heartily clap in grand jubilation!

My personal opinion on the MRA is that they’re really better of as inspirational muses to the huddled masses of the internet, since they constantly encourage others to make art, poetry and other fine things in an effort to try and parse just how blisteringly bad their opinions are.

It’s inspiring and beautiful and I think tiny MRA fairies flittering about the place would really make the world a better place.

And since I’m a man, I can’t possibly be stating the above ironically.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
10 years ago

Bina: The Misogynist Bunch pillow: Ironically, the only way MRAs will ever get anyone to drool over them.

Well, you could sit on their faces and tell them you loathe them…

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
10 years ago

When you say ironic “humor,” what you really mean is humor that is based on mockery, ridicule, and shame.

Irony is a literary device, where the literal meaning of a statement is understood to be the opposite of the intended meaning. Ironic humor is sometimes used to mock; this takes the form, “My opponents are so foolish that they believe that the literal meaning of the statement is true.”

It’s most effective when the opponent really is that foolish. For example, back when Pat Robertson was in the news, some feminists would ironically pretend to agree with his statement, “The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

Another example is the “Gay Agenda” list that’s been circulating in various versions for a while. The joke is that it mixes everyday chores like “take out the garbage” and “feed the dog” with ironic items like “destroy traditional marriage” and “undermine the foundations of civilization”…and both of those last phrases can be found in serious homophobic literature.

The “bathing in male tears” and “kitten eaters” lines are a bit more complicated. The message is more like, “I know that these claims are so over-the-top that no one would be believe they were true, but it amuses me to pretend that my opponents are foolish enough to think I’m being serious.” This is mixing irony with another literary device called “hyperbole”. Complicated structures like this can be confusing, and personally I wouldn’t use them on something like Twitter where there’s not enough context to make the meaning clear.

See, whether it’s Valenti or the MRA’s, that is the point of their alleged “irony,” to mock, ridicule, and shame. The word “irony” is what they hide behind when they are called out on it

You might want to re-read the MRAs – they usually claim “satire”, not “irony”. A good way to shut them up is to ask them exactly what’s being satirized.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
10 years ago

I learned all my irony from my dad. Swift was a master of irony, who really wasn’t suggesting we eat babies.

He wasn’t?

Shit – hide the evidence, hide the evidence,,,

insanitybytes22
10 years ago

“Are you just determined to leave a wrong filled turd of a comment in every thread this week?”

Not sure, I haven’t really planned out the whole week yet.

“Fuck off. You’re a self-hating, dimwitted, asshat.”

Oh the irony of encountering such misogyny in a thread attempting to mock misogyny.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

There was nothing misogynistic on calling you a self-hating, dimwitted asshat who should fuck off.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Inanitybytes fails yet again at recognizing irony. Failure is her default state.

contrapangloss
10 years ago

attempting to mock misogyny?

Quick! To the Secret Bunker! We’ve been failing our mission from the High Council! Commence Irony Assault in 10, 9, 8, 7 …

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: cassandrakitty

And now I’m going to have the words “erection mug” in my head. Thanks a lot, kirby.

Does this mean I get to draw boners on OTHER forms of crockware? 8D Or shall I say COCKWARE? *is secretly twelve*

RE: David

Slogans include “my wallet, my choice”

That sounds more like their big problem is the IRS, not feminism. (Unless… feminism IS the IRS!)

RE: insanitybytes22

See, whether it’s Valenti or the MRA’s, that is the point of their alleged “irony,” to mock, ridicule, and shame. The word “irony” is what they hide behind when they are called out on it.

I am absolutely okay with some things being mocked, ridiculed, and shamed.

It’s a more passive/aggressive form of attack, one women are far more well versed in.

Speak for yourself.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Can we make a special challenge for insanitybytes where she has to answer the questions that have already been carried over from the last thread to comment again? Seems only fair, since she’s using her presence here to drum up traffic for her blog.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

insanitybytes22: Why do you think it’s not abusive to force someone to do something against their will?

Like you wrote:

So when a man protects me “against my will”, that is abuse and oppression, but when the Gov pays for bc, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, that isn’t?

Like you wrote in this thread.

Why can’t you answer that question? Or cassandrakitty’s question? Are you afraid to?

contrapangloss
10 years ago

LBT: Feminism is the IRS. Feminists are the government. We run things from our secret bunker.

Even worse: we stole the icecream.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Can I use the cockware as cookware, though? That is the question.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

@cassandrakitty:

To do so would be the highest misandry. Therefore you cannot. Instead, you must.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

What if I use the cookware that’s also cockware to cook penis pasta?

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

COCKCEPTION!

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Good god, it’s cocks! Cocks all the way down!

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: contrapangloss

LBT: Feminism is the IRS. Feminists are the government. We run things from our secret bunker.

I knew it! All women are ILLUMINATI!

RE: cassandrakitty

What if I use the cookware that’s also cockware to cook penis pasta?

This is acceptable, as long as you make sure to serve it with sausage and meat sauce.