Let me take a moment to ignore my regular readers and speak directly to the Men’s Rights Activists who might be reading this blog. I suspect there are a few.
What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor. Because, here’s the thing, sometimes people say things they don’t actually believe in order to make a little fun at the way other people see them.
When a feminist writer posts a picture of herself wearing a shirt that says “I bathe in male tears,” noting that the picture is directed at the haters who leave nasty comments on everything she writes, she is not actually announcing that she, literally or metaphorically, bathes in male tears. Nor is she saying anything about the vast, overwhelming majority of men. She is saying “fuck you, I’m on vacation” to a small subset of men. That is, those who leave nasty comments on everything she writes. You know, like she explicitly stated she was doing.
I point out what seems to me patently obvious because so many men in the so-called Men’s Rights movement continue to pretend that somehow Jessica Valenti has launched a war against all the good and honest men of the world by wearing a t-shirt that she knew might annoy a teensy tiny fraction of the douchiest of men. And when people point out that she was making an ironic joke, these dudes react as though they’ve never heard of ironic humor.
This isn’t the first time MRAs seem to have had trouble getting ironic humor. In 2012, A Voice for Men launched a campaign of defamation against a college student inspired in large part by a joke she made on Twitter declaring that her political position was “kill all men hail satan.” AVFM’s Paul Elam presented this as proof that the young woman “hate[s] men [and] want[s] them dead or silenced or marginalized or ignored.” Not as the joke it obviously was.
But the thing is, MRAs do know what ironic humor is. Because they indulge in it themselves, all the time.
Over on AVFM, for example, the regulars jokingly refer to themselves as “kitten eaters,” presumably in an attempt to mock what they think people like me think of them.
Now, as you all presumably have figured out, I happen to be a giant fan of cats young and old, regardless of their beliefs. But I don’t for a second think that the assholes at A Voice for Men, despite being some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered, actually eat kittens.
I recognize that they are making a joke, albeit a poor one. Because, here’s the thing: I live in the real world, and I can distinguish between things meant seriously and things meant as a joke.
And I think most of those who continue to rail against Valenti and her eeeeevil t-shirt can tell the difference, too. They just choose not to, because they’re not looking for a reason to attack Valenti. They’re looking for an excuse.
Now, is it possible that things meant as ironic jokes can sometimes contain a kernel of truth? Well, yes, but there is no evidence that this is the case with Valenti. There’s no evidence at all that she hates men. None. Zero. Sure, she admits to being less than fond of a few men who are assholes, but that’s because they’re assholes, not because they’re men.
Indeed, in one recent column, she wrote this:
I have the most amazing men in my life. My father, who bought me chemistry sets and robots for every tea set or doll. My husband, an incredible feminist who is an equal partner in parenting and the home. My male friends, who believe that gender justice is important and worth fighting for. I don’t have a hard time finding these amazing men because – shockingly – most men are pretty cool guys.
In another recent column, she stood up for male victim of sexual blackmail online, reminding her readers that “it’s still revenge porn when the victim is a man and the picture is of his penis.”
I know, you can just SMELL THE HATRED there.
But there are some people, I will admit, who don’t do quite so well with their attempts at ironic humor. Ironically, the first people who come to mind are amongst those who profess to be the most shocked, shocked by Valenti’s t-shirt. I speak, of course, of the Misogyny Bunch over at A Voice for Men.
That picture at the top of this post? I didn’t photoshop it. Nor did I come up with that little nickname. They did. Indeed, on their online store, AVFM sells not only pillows but t-shirts, mugs, tote bags and even playing cards emblazoned with the catchphrase. No, really:
Yes, that’s right, the guys (and gals) who are railing against Valenti’s allegedly misandrous t-shirt sell not only t-shirts but also playing cards declaring themselves misogynists.
This shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, given that the head of this little bunch, Paul Elam, posted on YouTube for years as The Happy Misogynist; he posts under his own name now, but TheHappyMisogynist is still part of the URL.
Oh, but it’s an ironic joke! They’re not really misogynists!
Well, except that they kinda are. Well, more than kinda. Unlike in the case of Valenti, there is ample evidence of real, honest-to-goodness hatred coming from this bunch. Ironically, the shirts they intend as ironic jokes aren’t ironic at all.
Proof? Look at my archives. (Well, skip those posts at the top about commemorative plates and coins.) Look at this collection of quotes from Elam – or maybe just the story he published, or the posts he’s written, offering justifications for men to beat their partners. Go to A Voice for Men and type in your favorite anti-woman slur and see just how many articles have featured those slurs, almost always in highly unironic ways. Oh, ok, I’ll do it for you: Bitch, Slut, Slattern, Whore, C*nt. My favorite one in that last group starts off memorably:
Women are facing a very real and grave problem in our culture: They are obnoxious c*nts.
Needless to say, there is no asterisk in the original.
While Valenti describes “most men” as “pretty cool guys,” Elam once suggested that
feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine … [T]he modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine … .
Last Father’s Day, Valenti wrote proudly about her feminist father. One recent Mothers Day, Elam suggested that mothers should
Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.
Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.
You get the idea.
There’s nothing ironic, or even particularly happy, about this man’s “happy misogyny.”
Irony, you’re doing it wrong.
kirbywarp: Thanks, I didn’t think to look under logo merch, I went to housewares.
If I saw a dude with that in my company lunchroom, I would avoid that person like the plague from then on.
I really do want them to make obvious things like backpacks and other bags. Please, dudes, carry this stuff around with you!
Ah ha! What I thought was a bizarre tribute to Super Mario Sunshine was actually a reference to the Scarlet Letter, a story about a woman who was forced to wear a scarlet A after having committed adultery.
So I guess they want to be ironically branded “misogynist?” Not a great idea, but serviceable, until you notice that it also colors AVFM’s new M logo (that looks like a person giving birth to a newspaper hat).
“What I would like to talk to you about it ironic humor”
When you say ironic “humor,” what you really mean is humor that is based on mockery, ridicule, and shame. See, whether it’s Valenti or the MRA’s, that is the point of their alleged “irony,” to mock, ridicule, and shame. The word “irony” is what they hide behind when they are called out on it.
The problem is, men really don’t do irony very well. It’s a more passive/aggressive form of attack, one women are far more well versed in. If you need evidence of that statement just look at the quality of the crap coming out of many MRA’s and compare it to feminist irony. MRA irony is hostile, vulgar, and unsophisticated, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t just as much hostility, vulgarity, and fury behind Valenti “bathing in man tears.” When some MRA’s complain about women being deceptive, deceitful, I suspect this is what they’re trying to point out. Women can be very sophisticated with their ridicule, mockery, and shame, but their intent to wound is unmistakable.
What is it even supposed to be addressing. If it’s about paying for dates, it’s not feminists who think it has be the man’s job to pay for everything. That’s why we want good paying jobs for women. So we have the option to be financially independent. If it’s about child support, then EW!!! Can you imagine how a kid would feel if his or her dad was running around town in an anti child support shirt?
You’d think a men’s rights group would reject the concept of “real men.” Of course we all know they only like men if they fit into a certain box. Some human rights movement.
Kevin, watch the ableism please.
Geez the y actually sell tshirts with avfm on it. This is sort of ironic because I am guessing none of the mgtow’s at avfm will actually wear these shirts in public. These mra dudes hide behind their keyboards and use fake names on the internet to hide behind their true identity.
They do this because deep down they know they would be embarrassed publicly if their friends, family, coworkers, neighbors etc. found out that they are affiliated with the hateful manosphere. At least Jessica Valenti and other feminists use their real name because they know they discuss legitimate issues and do not have to hide behind a keyboard and a fake name.
So where is the logic with these dudes? They are selling tshirts with avfm on it but in reality they would be too scared to wear them in public anyway. These mra’s are getting stupider by the minute.
@insanitybytes22:
Ooh, you’re back! Maybe you could actually address your critics in the other thread.
Read a book. There are plenty of wonderful examples of irony in classic literature written by dudes. Also note that David, the owner of a blog entirely dedicated to mockery, is male. Also notice that JB and GWW are women, yet they utterly fail at irony. Also notice that you painted skill at mockery as an individual male/female thing, then went on to justify that caricature by looking at the output of whole movements.
Well, a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Are you just determined to leave a wrong filled turd of a comment in every thread this week?
The ability to do ironic humor has nothing to do with gender. David does it well on this site all the time. And have you not seen Stephen Colbert? MRAs are bad at it because they’re idiots and they aren’t funny. Not because they’re men.
Nice dig at women you’ve put in there too. Apparently women are passive-aggressive. Except when people like you come on here and whine about how aggressively mean and silencing we are.
If women actually are more passive-aggressive has it ever occurred to you that it’s because we’re socialized (by the patriarchy) to be nice all the time even though we’re no more or less nice than men?
Hi, insanitybytes! Still waiting for you to address the question of why it’s terrible for the government to offer things like medicare and foodstamps as options, but it’s OK for you decide that women shouldn’t have those options just because you don’t want them for yourself.
PS – I gather that your point is that on average women have better verbal skills than men, which makes it particularly funny that you personally are not exactly a great illustration of that theory.
Inanitybytes, why don’t you just fuck off?
@kirbywarp: the special snowflake tshirts are for women. They are fitted.
@weirwoodtreehugger: I think the actual message of “my wallet, my choice” is, “I don’t understand what bodily autonomy is, and I don’t ever plan to.”
They actually call themselves “The Misogyny Bunch?” Next time a troll comes on here whining about “Male Tears” mugs and shirts, I’m going to link them to
this post.
And oh joy, IB22’s back, and demonstrating that “irony” is yet another concept that she apparently has no understanding of. Never heard of Jonathan Swift, eh? And please answer cassandrakitty’s question. And this one of mine: Why do you think that forcing someone to do something against their will isn’t abusive?
Yay! Formatting fail!
No, they are not pretending, IMO; MRA are indeed incapable of understanding irony.
Such understanding requires higher level cognitive and emotional skills (e.g., empathy, self-reflection, an ability to play with and grasp multiple meanings in ways that do not shatter one’s inordinately fragile ego, etc.) that they do not possess.
And that’s why, among other things, they are MRA.
I’m late to the party, but irony is not the secret weapon of women.
I learned all my irony from my dad. Swift was a master of irony, who really wasn’t suggesting we eat babies.
Guys can be ironic, guys can be straightforward; ladies can be ironic, ladies can be straightforward.
It’s a personality trait, not a gender trait.
Thanks.
Davey.
I’m not going to try and explain the difference between making fun of the people that call us misogynists and making fun of men who are suffering.
That would take to long and you wouldn’t understand anyway.
I will instead stick to your opening remarks. Yes a few of us stop by your blog from time to time. There are many people who found the MRM through your website. Dean Esmay for example. You are a great source of advertising for us. Hell we should consider donating to this site. Maybe some of us do.
Men don’t do humor, especially not humor of the subtly cutting variety! And that, friends, is how we know that Oscar Wilde was actually a woman.
(IB better never visit the UK, she’ll be so confused.)
@insanitybytes22:
“The problem is, men really don’t do irony very well.”
Oh, but that’s demonstrably not true. Some of the greatest ironists in the human history were / are men: Twain, Shaw, Chekhov, to name just a few.
It is true, however, that supremely egocentric, emotionally and intellectually stunted misogynists like MRA do not do irony well (= at all).
Voltaire must also have been a Ma’am, since he was all about the snark. Sorry, she was all about the snark; I forgot that snark was totally a lady thing.
Pshaw! Chekhov’s most famous play is about a bunch of women, therefore he was clearly a woman too. Twain…I dunno, did he like cats? If so, woman.
Please note that this means that Hemingway was also a woman.
I’m not sure whether you’re insulting men, women, non-binary people, or everyone imaginable with this statement.
As a man, I certainly feel offended by the remark that I don’t do irony well. Being a non-violent kind of guy, I’d like to think I’ve honed the ability to at least read irony well, if not pull it off myself every once in a while.
Of course, the snap at women being naturally more passive-aggressive is jarring, too, especially since I’m notorious for being passive-aggressive towards stupid fucks who want to pick a fight I’m not interested in.
By the way, Feminists vs. MRAs =/= women vs. men. Just as a heads-up, before you embarrass yourself further.
As an aside: Personally, I think the “women are better at interpersonal skills” is just a sexist way of saying that every bad thing a man does to a woman is actually the woman’s fault, since she has this amazing supernatural ability to discern a man’s true motivations, while the man only understands stuff spelled out for him.
Essentially, this means that men are to be given a free pass for acting like assholes around women (can’t the womenfolk just use their telepathy to understand that men aren’t as good at acting like decent people?), abusive men can’t manipulate women (the woman should have seen it coming), friendzoning is real (women automatically know when a man who professes being their friend is secretly in love with them, and string them along out of greed, vanity or pure cruelty), Schrödinger’s Rapist is anti-man (because surely women can just tell which men intend to rape them and which ones do not?), etc.
Privilege? What’s that? Men are just naturally bad at understanding women, so expecting them to take women into consideration is misandry! /sarcasm
Seriously, fuck that noise.
What about Gogol? On one hand, super snarky and sarcastic and generally mean sense of humor. Otoh, killed himself, so probably a man.
Confused now.
Passive-aggressive attack is certainly what IB is aiming for, but she’s not very good at it, thus mucking up the theory.
Tony Stark isn’t a man, because he’s irony and irony.