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antifeminism empathy deficit hundreds of upvotes imaginary backwards land mansplaining men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men reddit that's completely wrong

Men's Rights Redditors agree: "It was empathy not misogyny that kept women from having careers."

Girl totally protected from the harsh world of work by nice men.
Girl totally protected from the harsh world of work by nice men.

Once upon a time, you may recall, women were denied the right to vote, couldn’t own property, were prevented from having careers of their own. Well, it turns out that all of these pesky “restrictions” weren’t really restrictions at all! They were protections that men provided women out of the goodness of their hearts. Men protected women from the terrible burdens of voting and property-owning and so forth, because they just cared about women so much.

Or at least that’s what a lot of Men’s Rights Activists seem to think, judging from this highly edifying discussion in the Men’s Rights subreddit.

rogersmith25 325 points 1 day ago  As I read /r/mensrights[1] more and more, it is becoming increasingly clear to me that the primary female privilege is empathy.  If a woman or girl is hurt, people care. If women are kidnapped, there is international media attention. If women are killed, their deaths are highlighted. If there is a conflict between a man and a woman, then people will jump in to defend the woman. If women are under-represented in an area, people want to take action to make things "equal".  If a man is hurt, it's funny. If men are kidnapped, we hear silence. If men are killed, their deaths are glossed over. If there is a conflict between a man and a woman, people will attack the man. If men are under-represented in an area, the president will call it a "victory" (as he did regarding the female majority in colleges).  Basically, people are programmed to have more empathy for women than men. 200 years ago, that empathy manifested itself in keeping women safe from harm by having them stay home to raise the family rather than die on battlefields or toil in mines. It was empathy not misogyny that kept women from having careers. Present-day, work is safe in offices, so today we have campaigns for women to earn more money and yet have more "balanced" lives where they can both raise a family and earn an "equal" career and, in other words, "have it all".      permalink     save     report     give gold     reply  [–]sierranevadamike 82 points 23 hours ago  wow... as a history major, I never looked at the "repression" of women throughout history as empathy rather than misogyny. I NEVER considered this option..  blew my mind..  thank youDroppaMaPants 45 points 22 hours ago  Restricting women to vote, hold property, etc. etc. would be a downside to the bad old days - but women always had empathy as a benefit.  Now that the bad old days are behind us, women maintained their old privilege and now hold disproportionate sway over men because of it.

 

It wasn’t just sierranevadamike who was “blown away” by rogersmith25’s comment: the Men’s Rights mods were so impressed that they reposted it and pinned it as the top post in their subreddit.

Apparently every day is “Opposite Day” on the Men’s Rights subreddit.

EDIT: Here, courtesy of Cloudiah, some more pictures of girls and women protected from that big nasty world out there.

 

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@Tessa:

HTML is supposed to be dedicated to the form of the page, whereas CSS is supposed to be dedicated towards the style. Different style pages might want to emphasize text in different ways, so it’s better to mark the content as “emphasized” rather than directly saying it should be in italics. <strong> works in a similar way with bold text.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

OT:
I have put off learning coding for too long. I’ve got to get better at this.
To Pintrest!
*”gallops” away banging coconuts*

Fibinachi
6 years ago

I can code em to emphasize in different ways while i is always italics. The most common ways em is used is actually used to bold fairly often.

Ally S
6 years ago

@Phoenician in a time of Romans

I’m not going to argue with you. I’m really not in the mood for arguing about capitalism right now. Feel free to discuss it with someone else here, but not me.

Shaenon
6 years ago

Dear MRAs, Let women protect men for a little while.

Yeah, I was wondering if that history major who was impressed by the White Man’s Burden argument against women’s rights was planning to drop out of college himself. He’s so oppressed right now, spending his days reading books and going to classes and making fatuous posts on the Internet, exactly the kind of hard work women used to be so kindly protected from. I’m worried for his poor overheated little brain.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

Lea: Of all the things you could have commented on, you thought Ally’s politics were the most pressing issue that needed to be argued about?

I’m not arguing. I’m just pointing out that for a certain range of tasks, bureaucracy is teh best solution people seem to have come up with so far. People like to reflexively put it down without considering what it DOES do well.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

AllyS: I mean, I don’t even think the government is a good thing. I think we would be better off with a safety net that is a non-beauracratic feature of a classless society.

I think you’re fooling yourself. If you can come up with an organisation for delivering services that has these features, but is better than a bureaucracy, please enlighten us:

– impartial
– persistent (that is, perpetuating itself and its mission over time)
– non-individualistic (that is, not relying on any particular individual)

Yes, bureaucracy has its flaws, which we all know. But for what it does – which is a large part of what government is actually good for – its like Winston Churchill’s defence of democracy – better than any alternative.

Quoted For Fucking Truth. Systems have to be run by people. Complex systems need to be learned and administered full time, not by (presumably) volunteers doing it from the goodness of their hearts. They require rules and guidelines. That means – gasp – bureaucracy!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Bina:

Inanity Bytes

Perfect. XD

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I admit to not having the highest opinion of bureaucracy right now, seeing as how the state has fucking dropped the ball multiple times on my disability, my food stamps, AND my health insurance now. Seriously, I can’t buy a fucking loaf of bread without having to spend half an hour on hold, getting to some difficult part of time, and filling out a bunch of forms.

Most recently: they now have us down as two separate but identical people with two different health insurances (insert multi joke here), and if I bring their attention to it, they’ll axe the healthcare I actually USE. Because BUREAUCRACY! And then I wouldn’t be able to change the remaining healthcare back to the one I use until November. Which means no shrink appointments except what I pay out of pocket!

Fortunately, their own bureaucracy fail saved me: their system was down, and so they requested I call them back to tell them about the error so they can take away my needed healthcare. HAHAHA NOPE.

RE: hellkell

Not ot mention that “culture of death” is a favorite phrase of anit-abortionists in general.

I honestly wish we DID have more of a culture of death. It’d mean I could actually talk about my end-of-life plans without taboo. (Yeah, I know, I’m only twenty-six, but honestly, considering my life recently, I think it’s totally reasonable to want to plan to take matters of my existence into my own hands when it comes to healthcare bills I’d never be able to pay. I sure as hell ain’t going down like my grandfather!)

RE: insanitybytes22

So when a man protects me “against my will”, that is abuse and oppression, but when the Gov pays for bc, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, that isn’t?

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the government forced you to use any of those things! I also didn’t realize that you are legally obligated to pay taxes for those things, when in fact plenty of people use vows of poverty to try and avoid that.

I’ve never been punched, raped, or threatened by my food stamps. So your comparison makes absolutely no fucking sense. Also, I’m a gay disabled man. Where on earth will I find someone to “protect” me, if these social programs don’t exist? (And if you say family or private charities, I will LAUGH.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Gotta point out that if someone considers themselves to be a communist they probably shouldn’t be arguing that capitalism is bad partly because bureaucracy, given that communist states have historically tended to have massive bureaucracies.

(Inserts about a billion jokes about the most popular word in the vocabulary of anyone who worked for the communist-era Russian government being “nyet” here.)

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

LBT: I hear you. Oregon legalized assisted suicide a few back.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Also from a Gen X perspective I wish insanitybytes had chosen a different nym, because every time I read it I expect someone to start singing My Shirona.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Or that horrifically catchy Lisa Loeb song.

Great, I just earwormed myself.

Mikki
Mikki
6 years ago

Thanks for showing the link below with the pictures of the little girls, goes to show how women had no rights, made shit money, still took care of the babies, all while working as hard as men. I remember reading about how owners of garment factories would pay female workers by the garment, but would pay make workers by the hour. So the men could take their time while the women would have to hurry and make as many garments as possible, and still only end up with a fraction of the money the men made. Yea. Some protection.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Sorry about that.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Eh, it’s better than trying to figure out how you’d get services in a classless society with no bureaucracy.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: hellkell

Oregon legalized assisted suicide a few back.

I remember that! I listened to the debate on NPR in my crawlspace under the eaves! I voted yes for the one in MA, but it didn’t pass. I’d rather NOT have to depend on an understanding doctor to control our end-of-life plans, myself.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Thanks for the donotlink to IB’s* website where I found this gem of hers in response to a comment:

LOL, no, that’s not patronizing. Patronizing is what happens when you try to talk to a bunch of feminists and they label you a troll and start lecturing you about the definition of feminism, as if you were a moron who just fell off the turnip truck.

I find it darkly amusing that patronizing people who are wrong, who are corrected by multiple commenters with multiple examples, accuse those commenters of being patronizing. At least I know she read the comments here, even though she didn’t address them, because of the turnip reference.

IB, how brave and honest you are for running back to your blog and claiming superior intellect and victory when you repeatedly got your arse handed to you on a plate here. Nothing you have alleged here has held up under scrutiny, and you were posting comments that were offensive – people were telling you this. That means you are a troll.

* that acronym conjures up Irritable Bowel for me. I will continue to use it.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

As a Blackadder fan I am deeply offended by her attempting to associate herself with turnips. Baldrick deserves better.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

as if you were a moron who just fell off the turnip truck.

Easy solution? Stop acting like one.

Michael McG
Michael McG
6 years ago

as if you were a moron who just fell off the turnip truck.

Easy solution? Stop acting like one.

Is this intentionally a way back-handed way of calling a commenter an able-ist slur without using the slur itself?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I’d be more inclined to treat insanitybytes22 seriously if she showed an actual understanding of what disability, medicaid, food stamps, etc. mean to actual poor people, and showed an understanding of feminism.

My favorite feminist writers: bell hooks, Janet Mock, and Kate Bornstein. Two of the three have done sex work, at least one has dealt with homelessness, none of the three were brought up wealthy and none of them are wealthy now, far as I know. Bornstein can be fail at race shit, but Mock and hooks both talk about race and class, and Mock and Bornstein both talk about trans stuff.

And best of all, ALL of them are goddamn accessible, because I really dislike the obscenely over-academic gender theory crap. (LOOKING AT YOU JUDITH BUTLER.)

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@Michael: the turnip truck reference on this blog was:

What turnip truck did YOU fall off of with THAT figment of high insight?

IB (chuckle) was the one that added the moron reference in the comment on her blog.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Is this intentionally a way back-handed way of calling a commenter an able-ist slur without using the slur itself?

No. I was quoting, or is that not OK with you?

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

As a Blackadder fan I am deeply offended by her attempting to associate herself with turnips. Baldrick deserves better.

“Minimum bribe level?”

“One turnip… oh wait, I don’t want to price myself out of the market.”

(Should we call IB’s cowardly retreat as “struggling back on the turnip truck?”)

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

I think IB22 knew precisely what she was doing. She didn’t come here to discuss feminist issues in good faith; she threw around a few straw-woman attacks on what she imagines feminism to be, got smacked down for asserting her opinions as fact as she knew she would be, got all bent out of shape because we wouldn’t accept her misrepresentations as gospel, then went back to her own blog to play the victim of the mean nasty dogmatic feminists — which was the whole point of her little exercise.

Michael McG
Michael McG
6 years ago

Is this intentionally a way back-handed way of calling a commenter an able-ist slur without using the slur itself?

No. I was quoting, or is that not OK with you?

I was asking because I read it that way and thought I’d ask for clarification. Thanks for the explanation.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Patronizing is what happens when you try to talk to a bunch of feminists and they label you a troll and start lecturing you about the definition of feminism, as if you were a moron who just fell off the turnip truck.

Well, if the foo’ shits, then I’m glad my finger-flick struck a nerve. Teeheehee.

Ally S
6 years ago

Regarding this thing I said earlier (I’m still not going to argue about beauracracy because I can’t imagine it going anywhere and I’m stressed about a lot of unrelated things right now):

Abusive men who want to “protect” me, on the other hand, are people I want out of my life long before the advent of communism.

By “communism” I was specifically referring to a classless society in which workers have full access to the means of production. That is, it’s a conception of communism that doesn’t solely exist among Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, Stalinists, etc. I’m an anarchist communist, and so whatever praxis I have has nothing to do with vangaurdism or any other strategy employed by the oppressive communist states in the past.

So me criticizing beauracracy isn’t inconsistent with my class politics – in fact, it’s not only consistent, but also relevant. Also, my reasons for being an anarchist communist aren’t just about my distaste for beauracracy. Anarchism has always been important to me because I think that reformist, pro-capitalist politics – both liberal and conservative – fails to adequately represent my interests as a disabled trans lesbian of color. That’s how I see things, and it’s also why I call myself a womanist rather than a feminist. I’m just saying all of this to clarify what my views are, and I hope I can make it clear that I’m not attacking anyone in particular.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

I think IB22 knew precisely what she was doing. She didn’t come here to discuss feminist issues in good faith; she threw around a few straw-woman attacks on what she imagines feminism to be, got smacked down for asserting her opinions as fact as she knew she would be, got all bent out of shape because we wouldn’t accept her misrepresentations as gospel, then went back to her own blog to play the victim of the mean nasty dogmatic feminists — which was the whole point of her little exercise.

That, and thinking she could impress us with a clever “gotcha!”

The fail is strong with this one.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

Patronizing is what happens when you try to lecture a bunch of feminists on the imaginary evils of feminism and they label you a troll and start disagreeing with you about the definition of feminism, as if you were not the real expert but just a troll who just fell off the turnip truck.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

By “communism” I was specifically referring to a classless society in which workers have full access to the means of production. That is, it’s a conception of communism that doesn’t solely exist among Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, Stalinists, etc. I’m an anarchist communist, and so whatever praxis I have has nothing to do with vangaurdism or any other strategy employed by the oppressive communist states in the past.

So completely imaginary, in other words.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

I know this is completely off subject but ‘IB’ reminds me of that RPG horror game that I really like however i never finished it because it kept crashing. It must be because I haven’t update it and I am using a Mac computer.

I recommend everyone to play it. It’s awesome!
http://youtu.be/qerCNSBaEOA

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

LBT: I admit to not having the highest opinion of bureaucracy right now, seeing as how the state has fucking dropped the ball multiple times on my disability, my food stamps, AND my health insurance now.

Part of the problem there is that the US is run in part by people who want the bureaucracy to fail. They have an ideological antipathy to disability, food stamps, etc and thus craft policy to accentuate all the flaws to which bureaucracy is subject.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

By “communism” I was specifically referring to a classless society in which workers have full access to the means of production.

At what point will those workers no longer be required to organise themselves to use those means of production effectively?

You do realise “bureaucracy” isn’t a synonym for “capitalism”, right?

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Patronizing is what happens when you try to lecture a bunch of feminists on the imaginary evils of feminism and they label you a troll and start disagreeing with you about the definition of feminism, as if you were not the real expert but just a troll who just fell off the turnip truck.

Bingo, zingo.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

So am I correct in guessing that the little girls in that game are going to attempt to kill you at some point?

Resident Evil is still the only game that’s ever scared me. (Granted that I’m not a gamer at all, so my only experience has been with stuff other people happened to have in their living rooms.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Part of the problem there is that the US is run in part by people who want the bureaucracy to fail.

Yep. I remember when Argenti was going through the application process, it was very clear that everyone involved was trying to make the process so difficult and stressful to navigate that as many applicants as possible would just give up.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

Resident Evil is still the only game that’s ever scared me.

I chased up a reference someone made to “Five Nights at Freddy’s”, now on Steam Greenlight. Judging by the Lets Play videos, that’ll do it to you. I’m (probably) not going to buy the game, as I prefer to be able to keep my sense of objective detachment during horror entertainment (because I’m a coward).

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I was going to write a bit about bureaucracy and then decided it all boils down to one point: any organisation above a certain size incorporates bureaucracy, even private companies, as that supplies the organising structure/task regulation.

Her blog is the gift that keeps giving. A commenter on that same link:

Even though the cast of “colonists” is comprised primarily of typical, modern “progressive” folks, whereby the women are mostly professionals to the same degree as men, and very much equal in their levels of education and intelligence, etc., it really begs the question of just how “equal” you would want to be treated as a woman in such a situation. If, for instance, you were out on a scouting party, roaming the burning streets of Los Angeles scavenging for food, and a gang of Mad-Max-esque bikers suddenly descended upon you, and started attacking everyone and grabbing you, ready to carry you off back to their greasy lair under a freeway on-ramp somewhere, for a fun-filled night of gang rape and whatever else, would you defiantly rebuke the fellow male “colonist” for attempting to rescue you from their clutches, and deride him for his derogatory attempts at being “chivalrous”..? Would you be disgusted by his blatant display of “benevolent sexism”, and prefer to be left alone to try and fight off the leather-clad marauders by yourself? Or would the reality of the situation perhaps allow for a temporary exception to made, and call for a bit of “outdated thinking” to be tolerated…?

That’s right, because all the men will fend for themselves and not get help from other men when a gang (i.e. multiple people) attack them. Because we all know that when male soldiers go out on patrol, they do so by themselves: http://www.military-sf.com/Patrols.htm

And these guys really like put a lot of detail into their scenarios. Masturbation fantasies?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

By about 15 minutes into Resident Evil I was ready to throw my controller at the screen and curl up in a ball. I love horror movies, but making it immersive is a whole different experience, and I did not like it. Admittedly I may have liked it better if I wasn’t so crap at it that I just kept dying within the first couple of minutes over and over again.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Ooh, ooh, are we talking horror games now? I have a horror game! It’s a great horror game! Five Nights at Freddy’s! I recommend markiplier’s Let’s Play; he’s normally too shouty for me, but in a game as quiet as this one, his voice helps break the tension. I tried to watch it without him and had nightmares all night. (Though that was probably due to brain being a sick brain, but still!)

Basic premise is: you’re a poor schmuck working as a night-time security guard for a crappy Chuck E. Cheese knock-off. You sit upon your fundament from 12 AM to 6AM, check the security cameras, and make sure nobody tries to steal the building. You can not leave your seat, and you are totally alone. The only interactions you get are pre-recorded phone messages from the dude who held your position before you… and the animatronics.

Ah yes, the animatronics. Well, you see… they get kinda LIVELY at night. And if they see you, well, they don’t really understand you’re a person. They think you’re an animatronic skeleton without its costume, and since that’s against the rules, well, they’ll just try to help you into one!

The only problem is, the costumes are full of metal and wire and gizmos, and… well, you don’t really want to experience that.

All you have at your disposal is cameras, an extremely limited amount of power with which to use them, and careful observation of the animatronics’ behavior so you can try to learn when they do what, and when to shut the emergency doors to keep them out. (But be careful! Those doors take a lot of power… wouldn’t want to run out before your shift ends…)

HAVE FUN KIDS!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

NOOOOOO I FUCKED IT UP I’M SORRY

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

YOU FUCKED UP AN HTML TAG!!!

Nobody has EVER done that before! You are a HORRIBLE person, and we shall shun you as we would shun onion cheescake!

Shun shun shun.

Oh yeah – http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=270684111

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

It’s interesting that so many of you seem to believe in the protective and benevolent nature of government and the state, but not in the benevolent nature of men.

So when a man protects me “against my will”, that is abuse and oppression, but when the Gov pays for bc, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, that isn’t?

Were I dictator of the world, I would actually eliminate most forms of social welfare and replace them with a cast-iron safety net in the form of what might be thought of as a “redoubt of last resort.” It would be public housing that is free of cost to residents, that anyone can move into if they want/need to, which would provide food free of cost to residents, and provide residents with a noncash allowance in the form of credit that can only be redeemed in-house for nonfood necessities and small luxuries.

People could still work outside the residence for regular currency, and in fact would be encouraged to do so with vocational training. But they would not be required to do it, as all the necessities of life would be available within the residence without outside cash. It’s not a prison, but there would be strict security to keep things like weapons and illegal drugs out of the residence, along with people who aren’t registered to be in that particular residence.

I think it would solve a lot of social problems, if people knew that the absolute rock bottom means having a safe roof over your head and a steady supply of nutritious food.

This is WAY too socialist to be politically feasible in the US, and so IB22 would probably have an aneurysm at the notion. But whenever someone talks about the evils of welfare, I turn this idea around again and wish I could make it reality.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

cassandrakitty
“So am I correct in guessing that the little girls in that game are going to attempt to kill you at some point?”

I don’t want to spoil it but you do play as a little girl. I also played Mad Father too

“Resident Evil is still the only game that’s ever scared me. (Granted that I’m not a gamer at all, so my only experience has been with stuff other people happened to have in their living rooms.)”

The scariest game that I ever played was Silent Hill 3 playing as Heather Mason. Saying that game is disturbing is a big understatement. I want to play the first one though.

I swear that the silent hill games are becoming more ‘dirty’ with its strong language and sexual themes. Some people may like that but I don’t.

I also like to play Rule of Rose and Fran Bow someday. That has little kids in them

” I love horror movies”

Me too. I like The Woman in Black and I think the best horror movies are mostly the very old ones. Nowadays most horror movies are just too much gore, bad language and sexual themes. My opinion though.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Hmm, non gory, non sexual modern horror movies…did you see The Orphanage?

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

LBT,
My daughter has been playing 5 nights at Freddy’s. I’ll recommend the other too. Thanks.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

CassandraKitty
No, I think I’ll check it out. Thanks!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I can deal with a lot of gore if it’s part of the lot, gratuitous gore annoys me because I feel like it’s a cheap way to get a reaction. Sexualized gore, though? Nope nope nope.