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Harassing feminists for expressing their condolences for Robin Williams: Men’s Rights Activism at its finest

Another victory for Men’s Rights activism!

The guy who posted this was so proud of his work here that he pinned this Tweet to the top of his Twitter home page.

Naturally, he went after Jessica Valenti for the same, er, crime.

MRAs are so convinced that feminists hate men that when feminists express their genuine sorrow about a man’s suicide it doesn’t occur to MRAs to perhaps reconsider some of their beliefs about feminism. No, they’d rather use it as an excuse to attack individual feminist women.

Speaking of which, here’s how the  folks at A Voice for Men are mourning the death of Robin Williams — with a supremely nasty and opportunistic attack on Valenti.

More on Valenti in a bit.

 

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Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

@cassandrakitty

Their hormones would of course be covered by insurance. It’s a Real Health Problem™.

I was informed today that abortion is no longer needed for medical reasons. o_O

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

“I’m starting to wonder if there’s some sort of empathy removal surgery that one is required to undergo before becoming a full-fledged MRA.”

I believe that medical science can now do this with chemicals and, failing that, with bloodless laser procedures.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

However, absence of the empathy gland can also be a congenital condition.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I think it’s congenital with these losers.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

They got two copies of the asshole gene as compensation.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

They’re the goatse dude of the genetic world.

katz
6 years ago

Estraven, what a bunch of assholes who told you all that stuff! They are completely wrong.

strivingally
6 years ago

So where are all these feminists saying they don’t care about male suicide?

Oh, nobody’s saying that?

The MRAs are just inferring that shit from the fact that feminists talk about feminist issues first and foremost?

And then when feminists do express sadness over a suicide, the douchebros claim hypocrisy despite the fact that feminists are doing exactly what the MRAs claim they’re not doing?

You know what might be a better use of time and effort if you actually gave a shit about male suicide, misogynists?

Literally ANYTHING that might help reduce its prevalence or likelihood. Things like campaigning for better mental health services. Things like volunteering for suicide hotlines. Things like getting into the health care system where you can make a difference on the frontline. Things like not using “crazy” as an insult, or claiming people with a mental illness are just “trying to get attention”. Things like for the love of god trying to reduce homophobia and transphobia amongst the ranks of your friends and allies, since there’s plenty of evidence that those attitudes are directly linked to mental health issues and suicide amongst non-cis people and non-het men. Things like asking your friends if they’re okay, and letting them know you’re a non-judgmental listener who can empathise with them, even if it makes you feel “unmanly” to admit you can be sensitive.

But you know, whatevs, insulting feminists on the interwebs will also help, somehow, I’m sure.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I dunno about empathy removal, the surgery I’ve seen involves grafting the world’s largest chip onto each shoulder, and permanently inserting the head up the arse.

redpoppy
redpoppy
6 years ago

@estraven– I’m sorry you had to go through that shit.

What boggles my mind, is that the comments insisted that suicide was “selfish” and “cowardly.” But when you tried to explain what depression ACTUALLY is……they respond with “go kill yourself?” Not only is that awful but….logic? Anyone? Bueller?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The whole thing where other men are calling Williams selfish and cowardly while MRAs are attempting to use his suicide as a beatstick against feminists illustrates pretty clearly that the few legitimate issues MRAs talk about? Those are caused by the cult of toxic masculinity, which the manosphere reinforces. Why would you call a man who killed himself a coward unless you’d bought into a whole bunch of destructive crap about what it means to be a man, including the idea that men aren’t supposed to admit weakness or ask for help?

This should be an impetus for men who’re experiencing depression to reach out and help each other instead of using Williams’ death to reinforce toxic gender roles. That would be a positive and useful thing for people who’re concerned about how depressing impacts men to do. It’s a pity that the movement that claims to speak for them has no interest whatsoever in doing that.

TL;DR – You can’t help men who’re suffering from depression by shaming them for not being able to cope. Try compassion, not contempt.

BlueTuesday
BlueTuesday
6 years ago

Quelle surprise! The MRAs complain that feminists don’t care about men and men’s suicides. A famous (and well-liked man) dies at his own hands. MRAs use it to score points against feminists. How very, very sad.

Orion
6 years ago

It’s not menopause, it’s manopause.

Julie (ᴍᴄ) Galliard (@mcjulie)

I actually got all emotional with the husband over this. If you want to call suicide “selfish” then you have to admit that your grief is just as selfish. I just don’t think it’s ever a helpful way to look at the problem. I simply can’t imagine anyone who is suicidal who would be dissuaded from it by the knowledge that people will denigrate it as a “selfish” act — the LAST thing suicidal people need is a message that they are bad people.

The problem with the MRA types really seems to be that they don’t see people as people — not women, obviously, but not really men either — and the fact that feminists do see people as people confuses and angers them.

Anenome
Anenome
6 years ago

Some of Elam’s most unhinged, and most blatant, masturbatory fantasies are centered around Jessica Valenti. Probably his first “victory” was when she wanted to take her personal details off the ‘net, following AVFM posting her on their “registry”.

It’s fairly easy to see why she gets under his skin so much. She’s everything he isn’t: successful, educated, happy, a committed activist and universally respected.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

It’s also notable, given how many prominent middle aged and older feminists there are whose beliefs are far less man-friendly than Valenti’s, that it’s her he’s fixated on. It’s always young women who MRAs fixate on. Someone like, say, Catherine McKinnon? She’s been around for years, and says a lot of stuff they’d presumably find offensive, but they don’t care. What they’re actually fixated on is women who they want to fuck who’re non-compliant.

Everything comes down to sex with these guys.

estraven
estraven
6 years ago

Thank you for the sympathy and support. I considered the source and didn’t let it bother me personally that much when the blogger replied to me in that way. It bothered me on behalf of depressed/suicidal people, though. I feel so much empathy for people suffering depression. People who haven’t experienced it could at least educate themselves a bit before judging others. I understand people’s anger to an extent; I felt anger when my sister tried repeatedly to do away with herself. But in a way, that was my own selfishness and fear of losing her. I now understand how much pain she was in. She once swallowed 98 phenobarbitol capsules. leaving two for her boyfriend whose prescription it was and who needed them to control seizures. How she lived through that no one could explain. This morning on FB a blogger posted that a commenter on his blog was talking suicide and several people went there to offer help and to let him know they cared. So there’s that.

estraven
estraven
6 years ago

Oh and redpoppy, so right about the lack of logic!

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

What they’re actually fixated on is women who they want to fuck who’re non-compliant.

Given the really large number of women who fit into this category, they’re doomed to repeated disappointment.

And it is *creepy* given the age differences. MRAs, don’t do that.

DJG
DJG
6 years ago

And just when I thought they’d be hard pressed to find a new low. This is just… I can’t even.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

The Toxoplasmotics are a shitty band.

Not as shitty as AVfM and the other mister on this subject, however.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

Wow. Seems like cosmicrays is another one of those “white cishet men should be allowed to do and say what the everloving fuck they want no matter how much they might hurt other groups, but if a member of an underprivileged group dares to make an ironic joke about about the imagined oppression of the white cishet man, well then it’s exactly like institutionalized bigotry, only in reverse!”

If you think there is a widespread problem in our society that affects primarily white cishet men with misogynistic attitudes, and which manifests itself in such everyday horrors as friendzoning and people not finding your rape joke funny, then I can see why you’d think something called “misandry” might be a problem. No, I’m not feeling very charitable towards self-centered, entitled, misogynistic, hateful, empathically challenged assholes today.

jbgarner58
6 years ago

I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers? I mean, they have to produce, what, two thousands tons of pure glowing crap every day? Horrors never cease.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

I love how cosmicrays is all “I’ll leave you time to reflect”, as though posting nonsense and running away like a whiny little coward wasn’t his usual behavior here.

One of the leading causes of Depression in men is hormonal degradation. At about forty-five males, as females do; go through a menopausal period.

Yeah, no. Andropause is possibly a thing, or group of things, but it’s not the same as menopause.

It’s also notable, given how many prominent middle aged and older feminists there are whose beliefs are far less man-friendly than Valenti’s, that it’s her he’s fixated on. It’s always young women who MRAs fixate on. Someone like, say, Catherine McKinnon? She’s been around for years, and says a lot of stuff they’d presumably find offensive, but they don’t care. What they’re actually fixated on is women who they want to fuck who’re non-compliant.

I think the fact that the MRM is primarily an online movement may also be a factor. The older feminists don’t seem to have much of an online presence. Those of us who get most of our news and politics from the Internet are more likely to run across Valenti or Marcotte than McKinnon or Steinem. It’s why can get so het up about RadFemHub while having no idea about Audre Lorde or even Andrea Dworkin.

meltheadorable
6 years ago

I’ve been following this shit train for the better part of two years and I’m still not used to the toxicity and periodically need to remove myself from the parts of the internet where they can be found in order to continue functioning as a human being with hope for humanity…so no I don’t think you get used to it.

NonServiam
NonServiam
6 years ago

So they think it’s fine to use someone’s suicide as an ineffective attempt at Gotcha moments? And they think women are the ones treating men’s lives as disposable? I can’t even begin to understand the cognitive dissonance behind that.

ryeash
6 years ago

I think what drives me craziest about the MRM is that they have legitimate concerns, but they do absolutely zero about them. Worse, they hurt worthy causes such as getting men into mental health programs. One of the girls in my DBT therapy group pointed out that there were no males at all in either ours or the other group the center runs. Borderline supposedly affects women more than men, sure, but one wonders if the fact that it’s a disorder dealing with intense emotions that men are socialized not to express has anything to do with the numbers on that. Borderline deals with high impulsivity as well, and suicide is often an impulsive act. I’ve seen many males disparaging women with Borderline Personality Disorder on those deplorable forums of theirs; they are hurting their own cause and blaming women for it. It’s such obvious cognitive dissonance I want to shove their noses in it like a dog who messed in the house.

ryeash
6 years ago

http://en.webfail.com/855852d8b8b

P.S. For my fellow depression sufferers, read this. It’s amazing.

NonServiam
NonServiam
6 years ago

Oh, Ryeash. That’s actually beautiful. I had a really bad time a few weeks ago and a good friend said something like this to me when I told him how weak I felt. I think it carried me through it all.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Fuck you, cosmicrays. Misogynist’s inability to get a joke is not any woman’s fault. I’m sick of people blaming women for men’s shortcomings. ”

…made her bed.

Fuck you.
Fuck you.
and of course,
Fuck. You.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

BTW, misogynist scum reading this:
Robin Williams was a feminist. He was a great big lefty progressive and a feminist. He’d have laughed his ass off at you not getting the “male tears” joke. He wasn’t one of yours. He was one of ours. Stop using his tragic death to try to hurt the people who admired him and felt an emotional connection to him. If he were still here, he’d mock you mercilessly. Since he’s not, the rest of us will. We may not have his comic genius, but we’ll do our best to make fun of you being the worst.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

MenOnStrike: “Feminists never care about male suicide! So I’m going to shame you and berate you, feminist, for caring about a man’s suicide!” If he actually believed that feminists don’t care about male suicide, and that this is a morally problematic thing that should change, the “solution” he’s selected here is going to be the opposite of effective.

@cosmicrays

If you’re trying to make sense, you’ve failed. The protection of the comfort and tender feelings of privileged groups is not a high priority for many social activists, and it’s quite problematic to suggest that it should be. There is a logical problem in expecting the feelings of privileged groups to be privileged on the grounds that those people are already privileged, and it’s not even efficacious to go that route. Social change does not happen when the people who benefit from the status quo are completely comfortable and unchallenged in their comfort.

I also ??? at your characterization of the people you’re defending as “dummies.” Perhaps you can explain why Valenti deserves to be abused because she didn’t bow and scrape for the benefit of dummies.

ryeash
6 years ago

Isn’t it just? It helps to remember that we really aren’t weak; it’s our brains rebelling against us telling us stuff like that, and we’re literally doing battle with ourselves every step of the way. I have Bipolar I on top of the Borderline, so I’m no stranger to fighting my own chemicals. It gets so tiring, and seeing how it affects the people you love the most makes suicide seem almost heroic. Then you have people like these men telling you you’re weak or even evil, and it’s hard not to internalize stuff like that. But we’re not weak. We’re not evil. We’re motherfucking warriors, and we’ll go down swinging if we go down at all.

*hugs* for days, and luck to you with your battles. Sounds like you have at least one supportive friend, and sometimes that’s all it takes.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

jbgarner58,

No. I never cease to be amazed by their douchebaggery.

Janet
6 years ago

They blame men for having a 4x higher rate than women by saying “men do it to die, women do it for attention.”

I’ve run into this quote before, but it was never a feminist who said it. It was MRAs. They ended up saying that women who die from their attempts were not meaning to die.

MenOnStrike might want to do some research on RW before determining that his suicide and mental health issues are the fault of feminism or divorce courts. Robin was already addicted to cocaine at the beginning of his first marriage. His bipolar disorder probably predated the marriage. He also had abandonment and self-esteem issues that started in his childhood. Maybe, instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions, MenOnStrike should spend time learning about the science behind mental illness and the man whose life ended because of it.

Sam-I-Was?
Sam-I-Was?
6 years ago

For a time I worked at a suicide hotline and there was one thing that they stressed through training and I saw time & again on the phone is that suicide is not a spur of the moment decision. It is most of the time a thought through action, A fair amount of time in the person’s mind what they are doing not only makes sense but is also the merciful thing to do for the people around them. A scary large amount of men who I spoke to on the phone didn’t want to talk to me because as a female I “just wouldn’t understand their life”. Unfortunately at that time most volunteers were female so while we tried our bests to make sure they could talk to men that wasn’t always possible at any given time. And believe me that fact weighed heavy on the mind of everyone that volunteered.

Saying that suicide is weak, selfish, “girly”, stupid helps no one and only makes those in the position feel worse. If you are truly concerned about decreasing the number of people who end their lives support help for people. Work to decrease the stigma of mental illness & depression. Stop the call to “man up”, not take the “wussy/pussy way out”. Increase the ability of everyone, no matter their gender to get non judgmental help.

Anytime someone, no matter their gender ends their life it is a heartbreaking tragedy. Instead of using it as a soapbox to point out how you think feminists are hypocrites and this is your ultimate gotcha take some time to make a difference in this world to make it a more supportive world.

But of course that would take you away from your keyboard vigilantism so what am I thinking? Why should you do something when the evil feminists in your mind aren’t doing anything to help men? /sarcasm/

estraven
estraven
6 years ago

Off topic (slightly), sorry, but have you guys seen this?

http://www.alternet.org/gender/look-inside-infamous-mens-rights-movement

Karalora
6 years ago

I know I’ve said this here before, but…

Even if a suicide attempt were just a bid for attention, isn’t it better for the person to get that attention than it is for them to die? If someone craves attention so badly that they’re willing to risk their own death to get it, then by all the gods they need some fucking attention and others should give it to them. If they’re already getting attention but feel they need more, then something about the attention they’re getting isn’t working and the situation needs to be re-examined. Either way…just give them some damn attention! Find out what’s wrong!

Humans are social creatures. We need attention from other humans, as much as we need food and water and sleep. When did this culture decide that “wanting attention” was a moral failing?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Brain bleach

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

Even if a suicide attempt were just a bid for attention, isn’t it better for the person to get that attention than it is for them to die?

Actually, I would go one further, and say that it’s a strange and poor aspect of our culture that “wanting attention” is framed as being a bad thing. What’s wrong with wanting attention? The way some people go about attracting attention is bad, but the badness is in the manner of their actions, not in the motive.

There is a gendered aspect to this, as boys are rarely smacked down on the grounds that they “just want attention” whereas girls experience this from both authority figures and peers (the boys may be smacked down on other grounds, such as being disruptive). Then when the boys and girls grow up into women and men, they retain these lessons. Even though adult men who act out “for attention” are sometimes reprimanded, they don’t have the ingrained idea that getting attention for themselves is, innately, a bad thing that women do.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

There is a gendered aspect to this, as boys are rarely smacked down on the grounds that they “just want attention” whereas girls experience this from both authority figures and peers

Girls/women are “attention whores” while boys/men are “class clowns” or “the life of the party.”

A Wolverine
A Wolverine
6 years ago

I assume the empathy removal procedure also results in the inability to understand statistics, poor reading comprehension, a host of cognitive biases, Reddit argument syndrome (YOU USED A FALLACY SO I WIN) and a crippling fear that feminists are going to steal your videogames

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

A Wolverine
I can see that on a brochure:

Empathy removal
Are you tired with caring about people and just have to… You know…care? Well with this new procedure all your love and empathy will be taken away

May cause: lack of logic, inability to understand logic and statistics, poor reading comprehension, paranoia, anger, depression, hate, lack of understanding others, lost of humor, not finding baby animals cute and just not giving a ****

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

I don’t think it’s so much lack of logic per se so much as always starting from false premises, which tends to come from cherry-picked data and the inability to deal with data that doesn’t agree with whatever conclusion they’ve already come to. All feminists want to kill all men because of one rather tasteless Jezebel article several years ago and Valerie Solanas 40 years ago. Feminists don’t care about male suicide so whenever they seem to care about male suicide they are obviously being hypocritical.
One of the nastier aspects of human character, which seems to be much more prevalent (gross understatement) in males of whatever age, is the tendency to ridicule any signs of weakness and build up one’s own ego by kicking people when they are down.

NonServiam
NonServiam
6 years ago

Ryeash: Thanks, hun. I’m finally working through the hangover of an abusive relationship (on top of already living with depression) and this friend is one of the few people who knows the details. He knows what to say when I don’t.

And you’re right. This is a battle and we won’t go down easily. People who commit suicide don’t either. Robin Williams fought for so long. He made it to his 60s when some of us don’t make it past our twenties. Losing him is just so sad and awful, but we should always celebrate everyone trying or who tried their best to live in this world.

Hugs and solidarity to you too! x

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Actually, I would go one further, and say that it’s a strange and poor aspect of our culture that “wanting attention” is framed as being a bad thing.

PRECISELY!
{read, enthusiastic agreement}
One of the accusations leveled at self-injurers is that they do it for attention. This is not usually true, but if someone needs attention badly enough to slice themselves open for it, they really ought to be given some fucking attention. Maybe a better way of getting that attention as well.
@ ryeash, that poster IS amazing…Gotta figure out who all I need to forward a link to that to.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers?

Sort of yes, sort of no. You don’t “get used to” it, you learn to live with it. You’re constantly disappointed, rarely surprised, but often shocked.

This barrel has no bottom. They can always go lower. Even when you think “they’ve done it this time”, they always come up with something worse.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

This bullshit comes as no surprise to me. For a supposed activist movement, I have yet to see these chucklefucks show any care for anyone, except as a club to hit other people they don’t like. It’s regular as clockwork with them.

Fibinachi
6 years ago

I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers? I mean, they have to produce, what, two thousands tons of pure glowing crap every day? Horrors never cease.

To some degree, yes? I mean, after a point, all my ability to process pure terror is spent, and I’m left with a kind of blissful nothing. A side bonus is that the hilariously misogynistic, stupid crap some people I’m around say just seems so much less insulting because I know these dudes on the internet who are worse.

Honestly, I think the awareness of MRA’s is a net positive in my life. It gets me the Mammoths, and it nicely concentrates all the tremendous fuckshitarghshitfucknoohgodwhyhelpitburns into one neat little package that never ceases to feel like a hundred burning bees percolating through my skeleton.

Which means it frees up all my energy for other things!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

@jbgarner58, hi, have a Welcome Package!

On getting used to MRA craptitudes … for me, I’ve been here a couple of years and yeah, on this level I’m used to it. They don’t really surprise me any more; it there’s a way of hating women, they’ll find it. It pretty much confirms what I’d long thought about misogynists anyway.

But it’s filtered by what David chooses to write about and the supportive mockery of the regulars (plus kitties, knitting, general conversation, etc, etc … ). I don’t think I’d get used to it if I read it at the source, and I don’t know how David manages it.