Categories
antifeminism MRA oppressed white men racism reddit

"Egalitarian" Redditor explains why protesting Michael Brown's shooting would be a "gross misuse of the MRM's relatively meager resources."

" The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men."
“The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men.”

I suppose none of us should really be shocked that the death of Michael Brown, a black teenager literally shot in the back reportedly shot six times by a white officer, has caused barely a ripple in the world of the Men’s Rightsers — there are only two small threads on the subject on the Men’s Rights subreddit at the moment, and the only active one is filled with a lot of tut-tutting about “violent” protesters. It’s hardly news that MRAs, almost all of them white men, are more interested in lamenting their own imagined oppression than they are in dealing with the real injustices faced by young men of color.

But I have to admit I was a bit surprised by the callous “logic” in the following, currently the top comment in the only thread devoted to Michael Brown’s death in the FeMRAdebates subreddit:

ZorbaTHut Egalitarian [score hidden] 8 hours ago*  Well, first, homicide may be the leading cause of death among young black men, but it's not the leading cause of death among men. It is certainly a concern, but the good news is that there are many organizations already concerned about it. The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men, and spending a bunch of effort on an issue that is already well-covered would be a gross misuse of the MRM's relatively meager resources.  That said, keep in mind why you've heard about this at all. Michael Brown's murder isn't getting airtime because he was male; it's getting airtime because he was black and because he was killed by a white police officer in a massive show of police power. If he was white and homeless you might have heard a bit about it, but it certainly never would have been discussed by the Tumblrsphere. If he was killed by someone who wasn't a police officer, nobody would give a shit, black or white.  The problem isn't that the MRM is ignoring Michael Brown. The problem is that everyone else ignores all the male murder victims who weren't a black person killed by a white man in power. This problem isn't solved by making even more of a media circus around the one-in-hundred-thousand male murder victim that Jezebel decides to bother with.

“Egalitarianism,” you’re doing it wrong.

The FeMRAdebates subreddit is supposed to be a neutral forum for feminists and MRAs to discuss issues, yet somehow manages to be even more cringe-inducing than the Men’s Rights subreddit.

(Thanks to diehtc0ke on Reddit for pointing out this amazing comment.)

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

80 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
cloudiah
6 years ago

Yeah, if he was white and homeless, no one would have cared.

Shall we get back to playing MRMorWhiteRights?

kinginascendent
6 years ago

It’s not a mens rights movement. It’s a boys rights movement.

cloudiah
6 years ago

p.s. This eagleitarian’s comment is even worse:

So far, the majority of the discussion has been how this was clearly related to how the kid was black. I disagree heavily. I don’t think the event occurred because he was black, that was just a statistical probability on the grounds that he was a in a predominately black neighborhood.

Where it’s totally a coincidence that most police violence against unarmed civilians occurs, folks!

I think the larger reason that this event occurred is poverty. What do we know, aside from the fact that we don’t actually know the motivations of either party, and aside from that it was a white cop that shot a black kid? We know the neighborhood is predominately black, that it is a poor neighborhood, and that it likely houses a large criminal element.

Poor POC = mostly criminals.

In the US, the overwhelming majority of the prison population is black, young, and in jail for drug charges. Why? I would speculate that it is because drugs and criminal activity are more lucrative and beneficial activities than studying and working hard to leave the environment that way. Why work an honest job when you can make a month’s wage in a day on the street selling illicit substances? So is it racist that most of our prison population is black? No. Its an issue that those resorting to selling drugs are commonly black. Maybe its racist that more black people get caught than white people, and that might actually be an issue of race, but I find it hard to believe that an overwhelming majority of officers make a distinction about who they decide to arrest for the exact same crime. It could be, but I doubt it.

Fact: young white men are statistically more likely to use drugs, and to engage in illegal drug-related activity, but somehow young men of color are more likely to be stopped & frisked, arrested, jailed, and receive longer sentences for the same crimes. Funny how that works. But seriously, the fact that all my assumptions about young men of color are both negative and incorrect, that’s not racism.

We have an environment that has underfunded schools and role models that are ‘making it big’ doing activities that are highly illegal. Compound that with the general disdain for authority figures, particularly cops, and particularly with historic incidents of police brutality upon black people, and you’ve got a recipe for disaster. Oh, and then tack on that the officer was white, in a black neighborhood, as a cop – yea, that’s going to go over real well.
Lets ask ourselves a hypothetical: If the cop was black instead of white, would we care? If the cop was white and the kid was white, would we care? If the cop was black, and the kid white, would we care? If we still cared in all those situations, would we care as much, and would the media attention be as large as it is? Would we have the same sort of neighborhood reaction that we get in a situation like the one that occurred? Would we get riots? I’d suggest that we wouldn’t. In fact, I’d suggest that most of us wouldn’t care, or at least very much, and certainly not make it an issue of race.

It’s actually reverse racism. Nothing to see here, folks.

But lets really get down to the more realistic issue at hand: what did the kid do that caused the officer to draw his weapon and fire? Police officers may be known for excessive force but this, to my knowledge, rarely involves guns, let alone lethal force. I have a hard time believing that the kid was completely innocent. Truth be told, however, none of us really know all the details.

It’s a tragedy, but that black kid probably had it coming.

I have a really hard time believing the the race of the officer or the kid are as big of a factor as the media is letting on. I think its being hyped very heavily and the media is turning it into a sad South Park satire. Ultimately, the issue isn’t race, its poverty, shitty neighborhoods, and criminals. A kid just got unlucky and provoked an officer that caused the officer to respond with lethal force – the kid also just happened to be black, in a black neighborhood.

Right. It’s just like South Park.

I’m so mad as I’m typing that it’s going to be a minor miracle if the blockquote monster doesn’t piss all over this.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

The MRM has only so many resources. They can’t focus on young men of color being constantly brutalized by the police when there’s so much important whining about sad boners, spermjacking and male tears memes to be done!

Lids
6 years ago

Yes, no one would have cared. Surely none of the 100s of news outlets that would have been screaming about the injustice of a white man being killed by the cops and millions of people liking a page calling to have the cop fired on facebook. Let’s be real here, dude, if Michael Brown had been white, this would be getting a helluva a lot more coverage than it is and it would have never gotten to this point lol.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Shorter MRM – we only care about murder victims if they’re men killed by women.

pecunium
6 years ago

Ferguson is about average for crime (I found out when looking for things related to my blog post). This was the first homicide in Ferguson this year.

I’d say that redditor was full of shit, but I don’t think it’s really true… I can’t imagine there’s anything left given how much he pulled out of his ass to write that.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
6 years ago

Holy fuck. Welcome to the Bizarro world of the MRM, where misandry is real but racism is most definitely not, unless it’s against white people.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Ferguson is about average for crime (I found out when looking for things related to my blog post). This was the first homicide in Ferguson this year.

In an effort to prove that this wasn’t about racism, but about “shitty” neighborhoods he made the very racist assumption that a town with a large black population must be crime ridden and dangerous. Fail.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Honestly, it’s just as well that the MRM don’t wish to focus on this issue due to Tumblr and Jezebel getting their icky girl germs all over it. MRAs are incapable of understanding intersectionalism (so are some straight cis white feminists of course, but at least there are many feminists who do get it). They just can’t grasp that police brutality and mass incarceration have a lot more to do with racism than with misandry. Being white I can’t speak for POC but I’m guessing most wouldn’t want the MRM as an ally anyway.

leftwingfox
6 years ago

Every political site with feminist sensibilities on my reading list is covering Michael Brown and the Ferguson police state. The MRAs are dithering. Gee. What a surprise. 😐

vaiyt
6 years ago

The Men’s Rights Movement – what, do you expect us to help men or something?

Ally S
6 years ago

White cowards. They can’t do shit for black POC.

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

They’ll care about it as soon as they can find a woman to blame for the whole thing. They didn’t have much to say about Trayvon Martin’s murder until after they found out he had been on the phone with a teenager girl at the time, and so they decided it must be all her fault. As soon as one of them finds out that a woman was somewhere in the vicinity of the crime, they’ll go ahead and blame her and decide that this is another act of institutionalized misanderizing.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Translation: “Sure black men and boys are being gunned down in the streets and you’d think that was a pretty big infringement on those men and boys’ rights, but SLUTS! CHILD SUPPORT! and SLUTS! Plus, they aren’t white, straight, cis dudes, so we really don’t care.”

When I read “That may be the leading cause of death in black men but…” I finished it to myself, “I’m not a black man”.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8om867xHB1rwcc6bo1_250.gif

Meanwhile, they are saying that the hated feminists at Jezebel care about these men who are being murdered in the streets, so it must unimportant.

http://media.tumblr.com/a6923f607cfe6eeec2f44ab3447bc7fb/tumblr_inline_mye8qhQu0G1r4m9qq.gif

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The MRM – because being friendzoned is worse than being murdered.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

that was just a statistical probability on the grounds that he was a in a predominately black neighborhood.

What are the odds of a black teen living in a predominately black neighborhood? What are the odds of a poor neighbor hood being where lots of black people live? What could the links between race, poverty and police brutality be? If only there was a word for that strange phenomenon. /s

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

The problem is that everyone else ignores all the male murder victims who weren’t a black person killed by a white man in power.

When there’s a clear racial component to a tragedy that exposes larger issues likely to strike a nerve with the general population, such as social injustice and economic inequality, it’s news. I don’t know why that’s so hard to grasp.

Once again, the toddlers are sulking because no one’s paying any attention to them.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

They’re so busy cultivating imagined injustice that they can’t possibly take time out to deal with real injustice.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@cloudiah: I applaud your veteran commenter’s ability to avoid the blockquote mammoth during times of extreme stress. Seriously, I’m so furious right now I almost broke my laptop reading that shit.

So the same cops who apparently take rape so super seriously that innocent men are being thrown into prison left and right for baseless accusations suddenly deserve the benefit of the doubt because the murdered kid was black? Can’t these dripping anal glands even keep their own twisted worldview coherent?

Victim blaming, victim blaming, victim blaming. Yeah, “what did the kid do that caused the officer to draw his weapon and fire?” Because when a white cop shoots a black kid, we should seriously stop and ponder what the kid did wrong? Did he perhaps have candy in his pocket? Or was he hugging a puppy? He was hugging a puppy, wasn’t he?

Yeah, “reverse racism” is truly an urgent problem in a society where somebody has the galls to claim, without irony, that a young victim of police brutality somehow “provoked an officer that caused the officer to respond with lethal force – the kid also just happened to be black, in a black neighborhood.” How many hours a day do you have to train to get such a record in mental gymnastics?

Holy shitballs roasting over an open fire. How? How? How can any people be this deliberately cruel and willfully ignorant? Fuck. I’m tearing my face right now, I just can’t handle this shit.

I’m out. Those corners aren’t going to be curling up and crying in themselves, you know.

Save The Queen
Save The Queen
6 years ago

The more they talk about how this isn’t a men’s rights issue, the more they reveal the MRM is just a white, middle-class, and middle-age movement.

They constantly whine about how feminists don’t do anything to help their “causes” yet when a genuine issue that’s an intersection of race, gender, and socioeconomic status rears its head, they can’t even even offer solidarity with men. Can’t even muster an unqualified statement of support. Instead, they reproduce the discourse of white pride and victim-blaming. Feminists, LGBT groups, and basically just decent people everywhere are revealing and condemning what happened in Ferguson while they hem and haw. Nice egalitarian movement there fellas.

Seriously, fuck these fools.

Kakanian
Kakanian
6 years ago

>It’s not a mens rights movement. It’s a boys rights movement.

So they’re going to start an awareness campaign about the dangers of the cooties? That seems to be an issue close to their hearts.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Fuck these guys. They are so far up their own asses they’re ready to disappear.

n the US, the overwhelming majority of the prison population is black, young, and in jail for drug charges. Why? I would speculate that it is because drugs and criminal activity are more lucrative and beneficial activities than studying and working hard to leave the environment that way.

Stop speculating, you turd.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

It’s not a mens rights movement. It’s a boys rights movement.

Trayvon and his family beg to differ. It’s not a men’s or boys’ rights movement. It’s simply one in a long line of Bullies’ Rights Movements

cloudiah
6 years ago

They’re racist, they’re wrong about everything, and their reasons for being wrong are just made up of MORE RACISM. It’s a shit sandwich.

maistrechat
6 years ago

@hellkell
Especially since the last I heard, the average street-level gang affiliated drug dealer ends up making less than minimum wage. It’s not really lucrative at all for the amount of risk involved.

maistrechat
6 years ago

Just double-checked: the number’s I’m referring to are from the 2008 book by Sudhir Venkatesh based on his experience befriending a local gang leader. His 3 lieutenants made about 7.70 an hour (fairly close to the minimum wage at the time). Street-level drug dealers made an average of 3.30 an hour, and those positions were highly sought after as most of the gang members made no money at all.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Last I recall, the MRM was more than happy to co-opt all the POC being put in jail into their argument that men are considered disposable, locked up under the most trivial charges, and treated like scum. When people tried to point out it was a race and/or class issue, not a gender issue, they’d get all huffy and insist it was about gender.

But when a young man is shot in the back on the street, now they decide that it really isn’t a gender issue?

So, when it’s helpful to your argument against feminists, you’ll gladly pretend the issues of black men are the issues of all men, but when it isn’t, “meh.”

Doubly ironic is the complaint about resources when they balk at feminists arguing that feminism should devote its resources to women’s issues.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Cloudiah
“Its a shit sandwich.”

Would you like shit fries and a shit coke with that?

lkeke35
lkeke35
6 years ago

It’s simply the only avenue open to them when all other avenues are closed. Defund the schools so their education is worthless, fill the neighborhoods with police so that even the slightest infraction ( walking, running, driving, standing around with black skin) gets you into the penal system as young as possible, and then craft laws that make it impossible to make a living, rent an apartment or go to school … And yeah the future’s so bright!

I’m not normally a violent person but this fool needs to be inundated with sharp heavy slaps. He just used the grand trifecta of racist excuses to explain why they won’t support the rights of Black men to …you know..live.

That massive shitstain needs to shut up and take several seats.

lkeke35
lkeke35
6 years ago

If the subject in question isn’t about their boners ,they can’t possibly be bothered to care.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Let’s see… so, MRAs don’t care about black folks murdered, they don’t care about male rape victims, they don’t care about veterans’ needs…

But they’re a totally legit movement who are achieving great things. Right.

(Also oh man, the stuff happening in Ferguson. D8)

tesformes
6 years ago

Hey guys, off topic, but have you heard about this?

http://www.avclub.com/article/twitter-change-its-policies-after-zelda-williams-w-208157

Apparently, Zelda Williams, daughter of Robin Williams, posted a tribute to him on Twitter after his death and was greeted with, among an outpouring of support, some pretty vicious trolling and at least 2 photoshopped pictures of his dead body. Twitter is going to review its harassment policies because of the incident, but she is taking a break, possibly a permanent one, from social media.

Was anybody else who posted a tribute to him trolled? Or just his daughter? Why is that?

Linds
Linds
6 years ago

Hey guys, can we not use “POC” to refer to Black and Latino men? This is a specifically Black situation, and using “POC in its stead elides the fact that it’s not all men of color or all people of color– it’s Black people and Latin@ people who bear the brunt of police violence.

redpoppy
redpoppy
6 years ago

This shit is hardly surprising. Remember when Matt Binder “debated” Paul Elam while Dean Esmay “moderated?” Neither of them had ANYTHING to say about Stop and Frisk. Esmay even ASKED for a fucking ARTICLE about it. Binder was shocked. Surely you haven’t heard of it? It’s been like…all over the news. EVERYWHERE. And Esmay weasels out of it by saying they are a “volunteer” organization. WE CAN’T KNOW OR GET TO EVERY SINGLE ISSUES. GEEZ, GUY.

Falconer
6 years ago

@tesformes: Apparently, someone decided she didn’t have enough selfies with him online, so that means she didn’t really love him.

Also, maybe we should move the Robin Williams convo to the August Open Thread a few posts back.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Tesformes
Wow I hope they will walk forever on Legos.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I think that’s a good idea, Falconer. I liked Mr. Williams too, but Michael Brown takes priority here.

Octo
Octo
6 years ago

“If he was white nobody would have heard of it.”

It is of course entirely unsurprising MRAs would have such a “logic”. It’s the same attitude they always display:

“What about the menz?”

is now

“What about the whitez?”

If it’s not about them, they don’t care. They think they have a god given right that the world should revolve around them.

strivingally
6 years ago

So, the “tiny subset[s] of men” that include those unjustly accused of rape and those who were unable to obtain custody of their children for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL are totally worth all the time and effort of MRAs who want to “represent all men” (except those who are perfectly fine with and like women, who are purple poodles/manginas/white knights only in it to get laid, or gay guys, or trans* men, or black and Latino men, or men who just go about their lives without taking the red pill and don’t understand the STAKES in this WAR AGAINST MEN).

But issues that affect men that can’t somehow be blamed on women, those are not issues that the MRM prioritises. Right. Got it.

I can’t wait for these jackasses to find their social consciences and cry “racism” the next time HRC says anything disparaging about somebody who isn’t white.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

I’ve always said that a man has enough blood to run his brain or his boner, but not both at the same time. So, then, if you have a group of men with a perpetual hard-on … well, I don’t think I have to draw a picture.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Awareness of their own hypocrisy isn’t their strong suit.

…What is their strong suit? Oh yeah…
Projection and victim-blaming. This fits the pattern.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I keep hoping that these attitudes, expressed so openly by MRM people, will drive others away from their movement.

Men: your self-professed rights movement doesn’t care about most of you. Stop giving them money, and stop supporting them in comments on websites. Let them fade away into obscurity, as an embarrassing historical footnote.

DJG
DJG
6 years ago

@GrumpyOldMan – I cannot speak with any authority about men who love women, but for most of the gay men I knew when I was still romantically active it was directly proportional rather than inversely.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

Given the considerable overlap between misogynists, MRMs and racists, this surprises me not even the slightest bit.

brooked
6 years ago

if he were white and homeless

You know, the important to MRAs-type of homeless.

Maybe its racist that more black people get caught than white people, and that might actually be an issue of race, but I find it hard to believe that an overwhelming majority of officers make a distinction about who they decide to arrest for the exact same crime. It could be, but I doubt it.

Do these guys do any actual reading beyond their own anti-feminist gibber gabber? I’m pretty sure everything this guy knows about racism he learned by staring into space while not thinking about racism.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
6 years ago

The weird thing is, I’m pretty sure that no one was asking the MRM for help. After all, the MRM’s issues involve imaginary jackbooted thugs who arbitrarily punish men who have done no wrong. No one expects them to have to deal with real jackbooted thugs who arbitrarily punish men who have done no wrong.

Hyatt
Hyatt
6 years ago

It’s not a mens rights movement. It’s a boys rights movement.

I’d say it’s a Good Ol’ Boy’s Rights Movement.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

@DJG What I said was 99.5% snark with 0.5% shaking my head at the way many men behave.

Of course there ARE men who can combine sex and mind. It’s just that there are too many who don’t seem to be able to.

eawachs
6 years ago

Reblogged this on Sacrificial Tomato.