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Misogyny Theater: Roosh vs. the Lady MRAs

In this edition of Misogyny Theater, we hear from pickup guru Roosh V, who has some thoughts about the female Men’s Rights Activists – FeMRAs – that we’ve seen so much of in the media of late.

He doesn’t much like them. Not because they’re hateful nitwits like their male comrades in the Men’s Rights movement. But because, you know, they’re women, representatives of what Roosh so memorably calls “a gender who has no loyalty to men.”

He accuses them of pandering to men for attention, and accuses male MRAs, in turn, of being too easily ensnared by their feminine wiles. It’s a mirror image of the accusations that MRAs like to throw at male feminists, and likely to infuriate more than a few MRAs, both male and female.

All of Roosh’s bits in this video come from his recent video “The Men’s Rights Movement Is Making A Huge Mistake.” I’ve indicated all my edits with beeps.

We may be seeing more from Roosh in Misogyny Theater in the future. For the dating-guru-cum-reactionary philosopher, from his secret lair located somewhere in Siberia – no, really, he has literally exiled himself to Siberia — has announced in another video his plans to take over YouTube over the course of the next year or so.

Will he be able to do it? On the one hand, he’s a reactionary woman-hating piece of shit, which means that he should be able to appeal to YouTube’s vast reactionary woman-hating piece of shit demographic. And he has managed to build up his Return of Kings blog into a must-read site for terrible people; a quick check with web traffic monitor Alexa shows that, trafficwise, ROK is trouncing the most popular Men’s Rights site, A Voice for Men.

On the other, as you may have gathered from this video, he has about as much charisma as a sack of potatoes. Stay tuned.

 

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katz
6 years ago

I’ve always found it interesting that Irish mythology is so heavily grounded in an ancient version of colonialism; the locals are always getting conquered or ousted by newcomers “from across the sea,” only to get ousted or conquered in turn a few generations later.

I think a lot of mythologies have some version of “one set of gods replaces another” (eg, the Greek gods supplanting the Titans). What I learned was that this happens when one human culture replaces another and then tries to syncretize the two mythologies.

J.J
J.J
6 years ago

*knows nothing of tabletop RPGs.* Except for Munchkin! I like Munchkin.

I like how Roosh is all ‘having women in the movement will attract men desperate for attention from women’.

Isn’t that pretty much everybody in his audience at this point? I mean, all the MRAs who don’t actually do any activism seem to be whining about how women aren’t talking to them/having sex with them/making them sandwiches.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
6 years ago

They did seem to appropriate all sorts of characters from all sorts of places.

I loved that in the original printing of Dieties & Demigods, they included both Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Elric of Melniboné. My little teenage fantasy-loving heart was touched by that. Especially since they gave Mouser some levels as a Magic-User.

I find it oddly depressing how none of my younger friends have even heard of Fafhrd and the Mouser….

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
6 years ago

@Katz:

True. But Irish mythology really goes over the top with it: seven waves of colonizers.

That’s a lot of oppressing the locals for one set of myths.

jared
jared
6 years ago

I echo the sentiment of runsinbackground. From what I have heard about Roosh and observed over time he has no tolerance for anyone person or group that does not think or agree with him. He deletes comments that he does not like on his blog. His blog has over time been known for the many anti gay sentiments his followers post on it. It is a shame he even has gullible followers to his blog.

Blue Collar Nerd
Blue Collar Nerd
6 years ago

Infighting is funny.

katz
6 years ago

But Irish mythology really goes over the top with it: seven waves of colonizers.

Wow, I didn’t know that!

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
6 years ago

Well, seven or five or four, depending on which of the many available texts you want to reference (a fairly common problem when studying Irish mythology; there’s a lot of sources, and they rarely agree on many of the details).

But no matter which one you go with, it’s a lot of colonizing by outsiders.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

I loved that in the original printing of Dieties & Demigods, they included both Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Elric of Melniboné.

They also had the Cthulhu Mythos, which was, at the time, my first introduction to H.P. Lovecraft anything. I seriously had no idea what these things were supposed to be (wait, is this a real religion somewhere in the world?) and it wasn’t until years later I ran into the Mythos again and realized, “Oh, that’s what that was.”

Falconer
6 years ago

@Gaebolga: I only got into the hobby after 1995. Anything from 1st Edition or earlier is like a treasure for me. I would like to get my hands on one of those Deities books with all the copyright theft in it.

It’s interesting to compare the source mythology with what the game makes of it.

On the other hand, I have threatened to make a dungeon with all the dorky D&D monsters in it, starting with the flail snail and going from there.

katz
6 years ago

On the other hand, I have threatened to make a dungeon with all the dorky D&D monsters in it, starting with the flail snail and going from there.

Will there be a flumph?

Falconer
6 years ago

Oh man, the Mythos is all over real early D&D. Anything penned by Gary Gygax has a good chance of having some hidden, weird altar that has a chance of driving your character mad or granting a boon. There’s LOST TEMPLE OF THARIZDUN, of course, but there’s also a weird chapel in STEADING OF THE HILL GIANT CHIEF.

(All-capsing the names of modules is the way to go, donchaknow.)

Falconer
6 years ago

Will there be a flumph?

You bet yer sweet Polikarpov.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
6 years ago

For some reason, Lovecraft didn’t do it for me until I was in college. I mean, I read some of his short stories as a kid, but they didn’t seem particularly scary to me (this was after I had been utterly terrified by the first horror movie I ever saw – Alien – when I was ten; I guess existential eldritch horror is a bit less horrifying after seeing a xenomorph bust out of a guys chest at the dinner table…).

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Kitties!

… wait, was Roosh in that video as well?

Never mind.

Leah
THIS ^

LBT
“The moon, maybe?”

Hmmm… ::rubs chin:: sounds good I like it.

I’d vote for a passing comet.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

Another massive Gygax-D&D borrowing from Lovecraft was in THE SHRINE OF THE KUO-TOA (Falconer, I will abide by the capitalization concept), where the titular Kuo-Toa were just Deep Ones from “The Shadow over Innsmouth.” But the Kuo-Toa worship a lobster-headed goddess with the delightful name of Blibdoolpoolp.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

On the other hand, I have threatened to make a dungeon with all the dorky D&D monsters in it, starting with the flail snail and going from there.

Heh.

I recall when I was younger getting sick of our groups hack’n’sack ways, and deciding to take ov er DMing intelligently in an earlier AD&D game. So I found some sort of a beasty I can’t recall the name of right now – a illusion slinging not very powerful mage type who looked like and hung around with goblins, and had a couple of them with a goblin tribe causing havoc in the local region. Viola – instant opposition.

The players figured I was being tricky (“Goblins? Too easy”) and scouted around, finding the back door out. However, it just had a raised dais with a very mild magical glow and a rockfall blocking any way further in. They couldn’t figure out anything to do there – there wasn’t anything – so they went in the front door.

After running into a few encounters which demonstrated just how nasty goblins could be on their home turf with a LITTLE bit of magical backup (the secret door right where the magic-users of the party would congregate as the party attacked a prepared barrier was greatly disconcerting), they finally had the payoff with the goblins pulling back and me saying that “in front of you the corridor opens into a large room. There’s a figure looking like a goblin wearing a robe waving its hands around and chanting in the middle of the room.

Cue the firing off of lightening bolts and fireballs. Remember what I said about slinging illusions? Have you ever seen a party get decimated by their OWN spells as they go off in a confined corridor that just looks like a huge room? I fudged it a little and had the mage-types miscalculate and also get caught in the blast, killing one and leaving the other grabbing a sack and running for the exit, closely pursued by the two remaining fighters of the party, who are smoking around the edges. They manage to see it run onto a dais on a dead end next to a corridor closed off by a rockfall – and dimension door (short distance teleport as an innate skill) through to the dais at the exit – which, of course, they had practiced between those two spots before closing the back exit. The party hadn’t thought to leave anything on that other dais.

So the party finds pretty much crap left behind – all the valuable transportable stuff got away. The remaining goblins are evacuating, and running away from them. And after they got back from getting everyone healed, the place was deserted with nothing to show for it.

And that was because I played a couple of dorky 16 INT monsters the way they should be played.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Adding more kitties to anything is a pretty safe bet, and it seems to piss off the manospherians.

Kakanian
Kakanian
6 years ago

>Ah yes, Siberia, known for it’s overabundance of sexy, young, single ladies.

Well it’s at least know for its attractive women. Though that could just as well be the result of its remoteness making it a cavans for people to project such fantasies on the region.

Fibinachi
6 years ago

Fibs, you must be a brutal gm

Surprisingly not too much! That one was a statistical fluke (Every character rolled 1, 3, 4, or 5 on their saves). I feel somewhat bad about it even today. It was all compounded by our shared agreement to play until everyone died for this one shot adventure beer and pretzels adventure. An adventure that ended with everyone disemboweled by a monster.

Haven’t ever actually killed any player characters beyond that. Sort of go out of my way to avoid it. I guess I’m a bit odd like that, since essentially my thinking is that if everyone dies, it rather stops the game – and I enjoy playing, so killing all the characters is an exercise in exactly the wrong kind of escalation compared to the sort of game I like to run.

In most typical D&D campaigns, there’s so many other interesting fail states than “You ran out of hitpoints” so I do tend to include a surprising and varied amount of ways in which anyone can suffer tremendous, terrible things without ever being outright killed. Like the custom 200 table of mutations or the randomly generated curses table (it’s actually just an old wild magic chart with some extras). Ultimately, I guess I enjoy the “fail in interesting ways” school of thought, because it keeps the game itself going while changing the circumstances of the situation as it is.

But then I play with people who are fine with that, and I don’t think we’ve ever actually done a hack and slash burn burn kill maim campaign. The total humanoid body count for our last 3.5 campaign was… like, 8 guys? Over 9 levels? Hell, at one point, they tried saving some of the pirates who had only minutes before been attacking their vessel from an unspeakable crime against nature. Nice chaps, those heroes.

Oh wait, no. No. We decided to end it since people were moving away and stuff, bu the final confrontation with a dwarf who had siphoned of eldritch power from an avatar of a god did end with 3 out of 4 party members unconscious and dying, a warehouse on fire and a xenophobic cannibal lizardman slitting the throat of various unconscious hostile type dwarves. Given that he didn’t have first aid, I assume that actually means I’ve killed 3 players. But they were stabilizng, so I don’t know if it counts.

… incidentally, what my players don’t yet know is that the new campaign is in the same world some decades later and they’re all about to have a rude re-introduction to the Schaefer and Sons Entrepreneurial Enterprises.

I play a lot of roguelikes, so I get my enjoyment of permanent death and restarts when dungeon dwelling there. I think a shared cooperative game between everyone is less interesting if you turn it into a game of Ongoing Combat Tactics. Doesn’t mean I won’t enjoy playing in those games (I rather do!) but then it’s the sort where I need to be a player character myself, rather than behind the machinations of the world.

Oh man, the Mythos is all over real early D&D. Anything penned by Gary Gygax has a good chance of having some hidden, weird altar that has a chance of driving your character mad or granting a boon. There’s LOST TEMPLE OF THARIZDUN, of course, but there’s also a weird chapel in STEADING OF THE HILL GIANT CHIEF.

(All-capsing the names of modules is the way to go, donchaknow.)

You should always have an unspeakable alter to your local Monstrous Being From Beyond The Veil of Reality(tm) behind a random wall in your dungeon. Those seeping tendrils of pure chaos is what keeps the rats away!

Cue the firing off of lightening bolts and fireballs. Remember what I said about slinging illusions? Have you ever seen a party get decimated by their OWN spells as they go off in a confined corridor that just looks like a huge room? I fudged it a little and had the mage-types miscalculate and also get caught in the blast, killing one and leaving the other grabbing a sack and running for the exit, closely pursued by the two remaining fighters of the party, who are smoking around the edges. They manage to see it run onto a dais on a dead end next to a corridor closed off by a rockfall – and dimension door (short distance teleport as an innate skill) through to the dais at the exit – which, of course, they had practiced between those two spots before closing the back exit. The party hadn’t thought to leave anything on that other dais.

Hah. Sounds like a round of Tucker’s Kobolds. Goblins can be terrifying. Kobolds too.

I do like the “This is actually a corridor” illusion. Figures it’d be the exact kind of thing an illusionist would actually use.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

CONFIDENTIAL TO WOODY: You know you have to pass a troll challenge before you can comment here again, right? It’s actually a really really easy challenge. But you are failing it magnificently so far.

As long as he feels better after pounding angrily on his keyboard, that’s what matters. 🙂

Thanks for fixing the links, David.

This video was bearable only because Roosh wasn’t talking about his favourite topic.

Bonelady
Bonelady
6 years ago

I believe that Vox Day also warned AVFM about those treacherous ladypeople. His prediction was that the feMRAs would take over and turn AVFM into a feminist organization, or at least make it much less manly, if I recall correctly, which is one of his standard things – let women into any organization and they ruin it.

Ally S
6 years ago

@katz

Although technically I think it should be “all the taiga ladies.”

All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
60 lbs of weed!

I hope you understand this strangely constructed in-joke.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I am ridiculously amused by Woody’s incompetence and inability to understand a basic challenge.

Ahhhhh. To never have to read his dickbuttery again…

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

know these guys are hard to listen to, oh lord do I know. I try to keep these videos as short as possible. And I think I’ll keep adding kitties to them as well.

I appreciate your dedication to brevity, David 🙂 And hellkell is right, the slowly rising cats were the real stars of the video.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Also, I kind of miss telling Woody to shut up. Can we throw it randomly into threads just for old times’ sake?

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

I do like the “This is actually a corridor” illusion. Figures it’d be the exact kind of thing an illusionist would actually use.

Yup – if all you can do well is illusions, you should always start by sticking up obvious targets for the rubes to waste their ammo or limited spells on. And when they get wise to that, they’ve wasted some of their reserves, they’re less likely to charge at you if they do see you – and that’s when you start getting tricky.

I must consider playing an illusionist if I ever get into another game – even a superhero one.

katz
6 years ago

All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
60 lbs of weed!

I hope you understand this strangely constructed in-joke.

ROFLMAO!

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@LBT:

The best part is that he doesn’t take his ball and go home. He keeps commenting, as if David will forget to moderate him and he’ll slip through.

@Flying Mouse:

Honestly, you probably could just insert that phrase at random and chances are it will be after another one of Woody’s failed attempts at commenting.

Shut up, Woody.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

CONFIDENTIAL TO WOODY: You know you have to pass a troll challenge before you can comment here again, right? It’s actually a really really easy challenge. But you are failing it magnificently so far.

I can practically FEEL the warmth of Cassandra’s smile when she ends up reading this

@Ally

All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
All the taiga ladies (all the taiga ladies)
60 lbs of weed!

I hope you understand this strangely constructed in-joke.

All I know is that I’m using that 60lbs to buy a timeshare on a tiger 😛

Ellie
6 years ago

Watching Roosh’s videos… holy cow he’s sooooooooooooooo boring. Almost robotic :/

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

If you like Lovecraft, check out Algernon Blackwood and Irvin S. Cobb.

strivingally
6 years ago

It got me wondering; given his attitude toward women, that they are bad people in all circumstances and that the problem with Western Culture is that it allows them an unnatural amount of license, what does he think about queer people? If he were logically consistent he would seem to be compelled to view gay men as uniquely manly/good, in that they don’t have to have any interaction with evil women at all in order to pursue sex, and conversely to view lesbian women as uniquely feminine/bad.

This has always struck me as the weird thing about MGTOWs: surely they should be pro-gay-men, since that’s pretty much the epitome of Going Your Own Way away from women?

But of course that would involve seeing non-standard non-traditional masculinity as a worthwhile and valid way of life and focus on how one can be happy and fulfilled, rather than obsessing about how women are ruining everything and isn’t it great how we’ve freed ourselves from them? (and we must continue to concentrate our efforts on telling each other that we’re free of women, all the time, constantly, and isn’t it great that we’ve taken control of our lives back and no longer let women dominate our time and effort, which we dedicate to talking about how much we don’t let women dominate our time and effort?)

cloudiah
6 years ago

All I know is that I’m using that 60lbs to buy a timeshare on a tiger

The 2nd joke/reference I have gotten today! Anyone who’s still mystified, clicky clicky.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

If you like Lovecraft, check out Algernon Blackwood and Irvin S. Cobb.

I looooove Blackwood. “The Wendigo” may be my favorite horror short fiction of all time.

katz
6 years ago

“Algernon Blackwood” isn’t a character from an Oscar Wilde play?

Nequam
Nequam
6 years ago

Clark Ashton Smith’s worth a looksee too. You can read his fiction at http://eldritchdark.com/.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

I so wish I could play D&D in a game like you’re talking about. It sounds like so much fun, but it would rely so much on the other players and GM having the right attitude and a sense of humour.

Speaking of creepy, preternatural things, anyone watching Penny Dreadful? Or the not so creepy – Outlander?

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

@david
What’s the challenge that you’ve set for Woody?

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Yup, I wish I could find a new D&D game myself

jared
jared
6 years ago

@strivingally
This has always struck me as the weird thing about MGTOWs: surely they should be pro-gay-men, since that’s pretty much the epitome of Going Your Own Way away from women?

As a gay man I can say with certainty that I want nothing to do with the MGTOW label.These mgtow guys are bitter misogynists. Being gay is not the epitome of going your own way from women. I am grateful for all the women I love in my life such as my mother, sister, and my friends. I especially enjoy a spending time with a group of my friends that includes both women and men.

You know it is funny when I first started finding out about the so called manosphere and MRA/MGTOW blogs I was open minded because I am an advocate for struggles that men have such as depression and heart disease so I was initially hopeful when I first read blogs such as a voice for men.

But the right away I saw much anti gay bigotry on that site and these mra/mgtow blogs are not very welcoming to gay men to say the least. I was horrified at the hate from these blogs then II discovered this blog which rightfully mocks these guys. There is one guy on avfm named Andybob who says he is gay but for the life of me I cannot comprehend why he is there on a site where his fellow mra’s bash women, gays, and virtually any group they see as threatening to their worldview.

So the deal is these mgtow guys are very much anti gay and for men that supposedly have given up women they sure seem obsessed with them.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Hey Kim,

Yes, I watched the whole season of Penny Dreadful and watched the first episode of Outlander too. I actually read five out of the eight books.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@Flying Mouse:

Honestly, you probably could just insert that phrase at random and chances are it will be after another one of Woody’s failed attempts at commenting.

Oh, good!

Shut up, Woody.

This is going to be confusing for new commenters…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Just put it in the welcome package, I guess?

strivingally
6 years ago

Sorry jared, I was being facetious. I know damn well that MGTOWs have no time or compassion for gay men. Or anybody else that doesn’t embrace their caveman view of the world. I was just expressing amusement at the disconnect between their supposed encouragement for men swearing off relationships with women and their distaste for gay men.

They’re the hetero-normative version of those libertarians who continually threaten to “go Galt” – the important thing isn’t whether they’re going or not, it’s how much of a scene they make during their (almost always temporary) flounce.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

How is Outlander? I read the first three of the series when I was young and impressionable, and I’m kind of on the fence on watching the series. I don’t want it to spoil the mental pictures I’ve built up (which is usually what happens when a book I really like transfers to a new medium).

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

So far it’s good, Flying Mouse, but I’m only one episode in. So, as I expected, there’s a lot of exposition that weighed the narrative down a bit. But hell, it’s hard to cram all of Claire’s background into an hour, so I could see the difficulty the writers might of faced. It’s a pretty show — the highlands are gorgeous.