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Red Pill dude: Women are "barely-sentient organic sex toys," insufficiently enthusiastic hobbyists.

Why can't women take up interesting hobbies, like men? (Note: this is a real book.)
Why can’t women take up interesting hobbies, like men? (Note: this is a real book.)

 

Now that he’s taken the Red Pill, the Reddittor who calls himself F9R recently announced, he’s “started seeing women as people rather than as magical beautiful goddess creatures.” That’s a good thing, right? Seeing women as actual human beings rather than some imaginary construct?

Well, not so much. Because it turns out that women are just terrible as human beings. No, it’s true! In a rambling comment in the Red Pill subreddit with more than 100 upvotes, F9R reports his scientific findings on the ladies of the world.

Now I’m disillusioned with them because women, for the most part, are boring people. 95% of them spend more time on their appearance than anything else, so as a result they never really have interesting hobbies or develop respectable skill in any particular area. This, in my opinion, could be one of the reasons that women have historically under-performed in almost every activity/industry.

Ah, that explains it! There haven’t been any women presidents, or Popes, or Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because the ladies are spending way too much time fussing with their lipstick and trying to find the exact right shade of eyeshadow.

There haven’t been more women inventors, not because women were denied education for thousands of years or because STEM fields are filled with angry manbabies who cry oppression whenever a woman comes near, but because women don’t have any fascinating, mentally stimulating hobbies like the Red Pillers of the world have. You know, like weight-lifting, or “Game,” or “saying terrible things about women online.”

So you swallow the pill, look around you, and see two groups of people. The first group, men, generally have no innate value and have had to work for everything in life. This is why the loser-winner spectrum is so broad for men; don’t work at all and you’ll end up homeless, work your ass off and you could make millions. The second group, women, have considerable innate value and don’t spend nearly as much time fighting to stay respectable, because they can always fall back on their female safety net; this is why there are almost no homeless women, but it’s rare to find a female CEO.

Ah, the old “female safety net.” You know, the free reserve of rent money and bon bons that all women have access to. Or does he mean “well, if worse comes to worst, you can always become a prostitute”

Not quite as easy to understand as the concept of an oppressive patriarchy, but demonstrably more accurate.

He’s got that right: it’s definitely not as easy to understand.

Tying this in with sex drive: an RP’er will have a hard time respecting plates or women they meet at the bar, because when looking at these women as people rather than as magical, mysterious women, the man will be underwhelmed by her bland personality and/or her obnoxious attempts to seem less bland by being a loud annoying cunt.

Still, if she’s got a nice pair of tits and a round ass, you can forgive her personality and lack of emotional development.

Gosh, I am shocked that a whiny manchild who refers to women as “plates” can’t find anything interesting about them besides their sexy bits.

But then let’s say you get her in bed, and you fuck her, and you’re having a good time. As soon as you finish and are in that refractory period, you look over at the person next to you and see them differently. The tits and ass lose a bit of their appeal since you just finished, and now you see the person next to you for the immature person they really are, and it’s like you’re lying in bed with a child.

Huh. Just a thought, but if you want to date mature women you might want to start by dating, you know, mature women, instead of creepily fixating on women and girls much younger than you are?

Or maybe what’s really happening is that when you look over at the woman you just had sex with, she’s looking at you with disgust, wondering how the hell she ended up in bed with such an asshole, and you rationalize away her disdain towards you as her being “immature.”

It’s weird as fuck and you start to question your life choices. Next time you go out to the bar, you remember that moment, and decide to raise your maturity standards a little. To your dismay, no women measure up.

I hate to tell you this, but I’m pretty sure there aren’t a lot of mature women who see your bitter, immature ass as much of a prize.

That’s the Catch-22 of the Red Pill. It gives you all the women you could ever want, but you see them for what they really are.

Yeah, I’m sure that’s the problem. You’re dizzy with success.

So you’ve got two choices: work on your game and improve yourself in order to keep fucking barely-sentient organic sex toys, or go your own way and focus on your life instead because the game just isn’t worth it to you.

The grapes barely-sentient organic sex toys are definitely sour.

Men who choose the former are Red Pill alphas, and men who choose the latter are MGTOW. Blue Pillers just ignore the game and continue to get screwed over because they have no idea what they’re doing.

Keep telling yourself that.

And seriously, go your own fucking way already. Just do it. The further away, the better. If you think of women as barely sentient organic sex toys, stick with the non-organic, non-sentient variety of sex toy and leave the actual human beings alone.

Oh, and speaking of needlepoint, here’s my favorite song about crocheting. I know I’ve posted it before, but I don’t care. It’s not every day I have such a good excuse to post Julie Ruin.

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kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

It has to be that way because it’s what he uses to communicate with the mother ship.

ROFLMAO!

GrumpyOldMan wins the thread.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Excuse the crassness, but selling my skills as a cook doesn’t involve letting either the food or the customers penetrate me or otherwise touch my body in an intimate manner. I’m quite happy to support the people who choose to be in the sex industry of their own free will, but can we please not just brush aside the visceral horror that a lot of women feel about the idea of being penetrated by someone who they aren’t attracted to and would really prefer not to be having sex with? For some people sex may be just like cooking, but for an awful lot of us it is not, and I’m particularly not thrilled with the “well it’s just like cooking” analogy coming from people whose sex lives have never involved being penetrated and never will.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

Yeah, CK, it seems like there are some important differences between sex and cooking. I don’t want to bash Shadow, but I think the analogy was rather clueless.

cloudiah
6 years ago

In a capitalist system, all workers are commodities, but they are not commodities in the same way.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Excuse the crassness, but selling my skills as a cook doesn’t involve letting either the food or the customers penetrate me or otherwise touch my body in an intimate manner. I’m quite happy to support the people who choose to be in the sex industry of their own free will, but can we please not just brush aside the visceral horror that a lot of women feel about the idea of being penetrated by someone who they aren’t attracted to and would really prefer not to be having sex with? For some people sex may be just like cooking, but for an awful lot of us it is not, and I’m particularly not thrilled with the “well it’s just like cooking” analogy coming from people whose sex lives have never involved being penetrated and never will.

QFFT

Emphasis mine, because this gets left out far too often.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Pardon me.

I don’t need to let people penetrate me when I’m paid to cook for them….?

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

I’ve obviously started a conversation/argument that I did not think I would be starting, and definitely didn’t intend to start. I don’t want an argument with you guys, but I also don’t want you guys to feel that I’m not responding to your criticisms. You guys both know me relatively well and know my background (straight male) as well as how knowledgeable I am (not completely ignorant, but I’m certainly nowhere close to an expert). Would you like me to continue this conversation, or is this something you would like dropped?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

A Wall Street trader and a meatpacking plant worker both have their labor commodified in a capitalist system. However, the banker’s job involves being paid very well to sit at a desk wearing a suit, and the meatpacking worker’s job is dirty, dangerous, potentially emotionally traumatic, and poorly paid. See why this is a silly rhetorical game to play?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Hey, maybe they’ve hired JB! That would explain a lot.

Idk, has anyone called the kids “whores” or made up fake quotes and attributed them to the kids yet?

Ally S
6 years ago

Yeah, of course all work involves commodification, but that one commonality doesn’t make all work exactly the same in other respects.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I’d be happy to see it dropped, Shadow.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

And, yes, I suppose there are some high-end prostitutes who don’t object to their work all that much, but at the other end there are the girls as young as 14 who are imported from Mexico and Central America and kept in literal slavery and forced to service up to 60 men a day. I support legalization and regulation, but I would be more enthusiastic if I had any faith that it would eliminate horrors like that.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ Shadow

I would like you to stop for a moment and consider how your male privilege may be influencing your attitude towards this, and also consider why, if sex work is a job like any other, so few people seem to want to do it. Hint – it’s not just because of the stigma. There’s stigma against dealing drugs too, but that business is never short of willing applicants.

Ally S
6 years ago

And let’s also not forget the fact that many women who do sex work aren’t straight and cis. I know trans lesbians of color who used to be sex workers, and do this day they are coping with the aftermath of the abuse at the hands of violent men. Yet I hear dudes all the time joke about “Thai ladyboys” being murdered by male customers after being outed as trans and about lesbian sex workers being turned straight. Fucking disgusting.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger:

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if someone has. Not on a nationally public stage, mind you, but I’ve long lost any pretense that there is a low to which those clowns won’t stoop.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And before anyone starts in with the oh you’re a horrible person who doesn’t care about sex workers stuff, of course we should try to improve safety, working conditions, and so on for the people who’re currently in the sex industry. We should do that for every industry. Doing that wouldn’t solve the problem of the vast majority of people in that industry wanting out, though, or get around the fact that most people just plain don’t want to do the job, which means that demand is always greater than supply, which leads right back into the trafficking issue.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Yes, if a job description of “be paid to risk your life with a total stranger who expects you to do any sex act he demands, and at the very least will be penetrating your body, possibly while refusing to wear a condom,” is just another job, why aren’t, I dunno, straight men lining up to do it?

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

And, at the end of it all, it comes down to the fact that Western Capitalism has proved that it is unable to provide meaningful jobs paying a living wage for everyone, so that nobody has to do sex work to survive.
There is a nineteenth-century Utopian novel called Looking Backward: 2000-1887. Among other things, in this Utopia the highest-paid workers were garbage collectors, to compensate for the fact that this is a not very pleasant and not very rewarding job. Not, perhaps, a practical program, but food for thought.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I’ve always thought the crappier jobs should get the higher pay. Cleaners, garbage collecters, all the hard, dirty or dangerous stuff.

I wonder if capitalism is unable to or just doesn’t want to provide living-wage work for all? I know zip about economics (DON’T TELL ME) but it always seems it suits the power groups very well to have a lot of people powerless at the bottom of the heap and to make labour a buyer’s market.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

I think it’s about 70% could care less, 30% making labor a buyer’s market.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If I had my way we’d be paying teachers more than bankers, but hey, if you want to see who society actually values then follow the money.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

To make it simple, a laissez-faire Capitalist system will always tend to produce a small number of very rich people and a vast number of miserably poor people, simply because the people at the top have more power to claim a disproportionate share of the money. Therefore, if you have any interest in fairness, you have to take some of the money from the people at the top and give it to the people on the bottom, and take even more from the rich for public goods like schools and highways. The rich will then howl, “You’re stealing the money I earned!” No. We are claiming back part of the money you got in excess of your share to partly compensate the people who got less than their share.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

To hell with it, I’m going to bed before I get any angrier. I just want to leave any man who’s reading along and agreeing with the school of thought that in this particular conversation is represented by Shadow with these thoughts.

Do you have any idea how violating it feels to women who want to see you as our allies to have you frame not just our sexuality but our bodies – you know, the ones that we live in, that we ideally don’t want to disassociate from – as being something separate from our mental/emotional selves to such an extent that allowing those bodies to be penetrated by strangers is the same thing as selling a skill, like cooking or sewing or whatever? Have you ever tried to imagine what penetrative sex feels like from the perspective of the person being penetrated? If so, how exactly did you come to the conclusion that it’s basically the same sort of thing as making a bowl of salad? Do you understand that penetration that the person on the receiving end doesn’t want, where they aren’t aroused, can really hurt? Do you realize that for many women the idea of having sex with someone they aren’t attracted to is revolting? Have you thought about how misogynistic it is, to just kind of assume that every woman would in theory be OK with allowing herself to be penetrated by someone she isn’t attracted to, and how that assumption ties in to all kinds of other misogynistic ideas about sex being a thing that exists for the enjoyment of men and women’s sexuality being responsive rather than something that’s innate to us? Do you see the WTF reactions from women here to the “hey it’s just like cooking” analogy, and are you taking in what those reactions reveal about how women’s sexuality generally works as opposed to how you might have assumed that it works?

There are some women who feel differently about this stuff, obviously, and some women who go into the sex industry willingly and even like their jobs. I’m happy to support those women, and to help to make their lives safer and easier. But the stuff you’re seeing here from me, from Kittehs, from marinerachel? These are not outlier responses. This is how a lot of women feel. So that stuff about how it’s anti-feminist not to be all rah-rah-it’s-so-empowering about the sex industry? Stop and think about just how many women you’re talking over before you say something like that again.

katz
6 years ago

I thought the sex work thing was on the informal “nopetopus” list, given that there are quite a few Mammotheers (many of whom are female) who favor legalization and, IIRC, a couple who are sex workers themselves.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If so someone forgot to tell me. In any case, I’m not going to pretend that the restaurant comment didn’t make me spitting mad, or that I think sex work is a job that all women would be happy to do if we could just make it safer than it is now.

katz
6 years ago

It’s just one of those topics that always makes everyone angry.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

When a man tells me that I’m anti-feminist if I don’t agree with him about a topic that affects women far more than it does men and implies that letting someone fuck me is no more intimate than making them a sandwich? Yeah, you’re damn right I’m going to be be angry.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Cassandra, all the YES THIS.

katz
6 years ago

*Shrug* Suit yourself. I’m staying out of this.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

One of the really important things is saying straight out, the idea is viscerally horrifying. The it’s-just-a-job idea skates horribly close (and no, I’m not saying this was your intent or even that you were aware of it, Shadow) to the you’re being too emotional shit. Unwanted penetration of my body, forced by desperation, is an utterly nauseating, terrifying idea, and like cassandra said, we’re not outliers for feeling this way!

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

So, I was not going to come back to this topic as per Kitteh’s wishes. However, seeing that my posts have created the impression to Cassandra (and perhaps others) that I believe things that I emphatically don’t, I need to clarify myself. Not because I’m feeling defensive at being misunderstood, but because I’ve been a part of this community for years, and have known a number of y’all for years and consider you friends, and I do not want my friends to think that I believe such things. Nor do I think I would be welcome in this community (rightfully so) if people thought that this is how I feel.

Firstly the antifeminist thing. My words were:

rather than taking the stance that selling sexual services commodifies sex and is inherently antifeminist, most commonly found in radical feminist circles (though not exclusively)

I was speaking about the stance that some feminists take, and that comes in practically any feminist discussion of sex work, which is that sex work is inherently antifeminist. I was not calling anyone antifeminist for not being pro-sex work. This is not something I would ever do, I will never try and define what is and what isn’t feminist. Again, “that selling sexual services commodifies sex and is inherently antifeminist” is the description of the stance, not an accusation of antifeminism at anyone.

Secondly

When I was taking about the beliefs of commodification, I was talking about the beliefs that some feminists have expressed that the commodification of sex in sex work will lead to sex becoming a commodified resource in relationships between men and women in society in general and in the interpersonal relationships between men and women outside of sexwork. This is why I used the restaraunt analogy, I was trying to say that just because we have made a commodity out of cooking when it comes to employment/business does not mean that the cooking that we do at home whether for ourselves or for others has lost value or has become commodified.

I emphatically DO NOT believe that women do not enter sex work just because of the stigma, and if the stigma was removed that women would be flocking to it. I emphatically DO NOT believe that every woman, or even most women, would be okay with being penetrated by strangers that they are not attracted to if sex work became safer/destigmatized. My version of safer sex work emphatically DOES NOT include women or men engaging in it out of desperation or through force. I emphatically DO believe that the minimum wage should be one such that people can afford all their basic needs for themselves and their families, and that no one should have to turn to sex work for money because they have no other option. My idea of safe sex work is one in which the people who are engaging in it do so because they enjoy the work or because they do not mind trading sexual favours for money. My idea of safe sex work is one in which those engaging in it have access to security to ensure that no client forces them into doing something that they do not agree to. My idea of safe sex work is one in which those engaging in it are free and secure to turn away any clients they do not wish to take on.

I am sorry that my posts were unclear, but I emphatically DO NOT believe that women’s sexuality is just responsive. What I do believe is that for some women, as with some men, sex work is something that they would like to do, and I believe in doing everything we can so that they may do so safely and securely, with the option to leave anytime they desire secure in the knowledge that there are other options available.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

Also, if after the clarification people still think that the restaurant analogy is still offensive then I apologise for it and recant it

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Thank you for the clarification, Shadow. I see the point of your restaurant analogy now; it wasn’t at all clear before.

I don’t think there are any applicable analogies to sex, so anything one comes up with is going to be problematic and likely offensive. The intimacy, or rather abuse of intimacy, involved is not like any other work.

I think there’s a hell of a lot of commodification of sex – just look at the toxic views of the MRM and mainstream misogynists – which sex work is part of, maybe a reflection of. Women as things to be bought is hardly a rare thought.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Well that’s a relief, since I’d really rather not think of friends as believing things that are the way those comments initially read to me. I’m still not thrilled with the restaurant analogy mostly because there are lots of people who really do think that sex shouldn’t be seen as any more intimate or personal than something like waiting tables (the “it’s like any other service job” argument that they were talking about in the Der Speigel article), which has resulted in attempts to get women who apply for benefits in places where sex work is legal to take jobs in the industry on the principle that, hey, just like any other service job. And I’ve been told flat-out by male feminists before that I’m not allowed to call myself a feminist unless I’m willing to do sex work, so sorry if I assumed that’s where you were going with your argument. It is unfortunately one that I’ve heard before.

I disagree with the idea that the existence of the sex industry doesn’t have an impact on the way relationships between men and women go in general though, partly because I’ve lived both in places where it’s everywhere and places where it’s almost invisible. In my experience in places where the sex industry is big and woven into people’s everyday lives it does produce a commodifiying effect on the way men relate to women, and everything I’ve ever seen about the habitual customers indicates an attitude towards women from them that’s more sexist, more hostile, and generally less respectful towards women than the general population. Whether the purchasing of sex is the chicken or the egg in that scenario is less clear, but my guess would be that it’s a bit of both, and I really don’t believe that the knowledge that prostitution exists doesn’t have an impact on the way that men are conditioned to see women as a whole. I have a friend who lives in Hamburg, and she’s has all kinds of things to say about the way in which the deeply embedded sex industry there impacts the way she as a woman is treated by the men around her.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

which has resulted in attempts to get women who apply for benefits in places where sex work is legal to take jobs in the industry on the principle that, hey, just like any other service job.

Fuck, I remember that.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

To put it more simply – every place I’ve ever lived where the sex industry was a saturated thing that you can’t get away from if you walk down the street I’ve felt an attitude from men that’s more sexually aggressive, more inclined to assume that any given woman they see will have sex with them if they offer her money, quicker to anger when women won’t go along with that assumption, a higher prevalence of relationships that are sort of quasi-prostitution of the sort you see with a lot of sex tourists who eventually settle in the place they originally visited as a sex tourist, an assumption that men will pay for sex even when married and there’s not a damn thing their wives can do about it, sexual coercion of wives and girlfriends based on the threat of just hiring a sex worker if the wife/girlfriend won’t do what the man wants in bed, and so on. So to say that there’s no connection between the existence of the industry and commodification of sexual relationships in general just doesn’t ring true to me.

FC
FC
6 years ago

One thing I haven’t seen in this comment section is an actual sex worker. I work as a full service provider in a brothel, in Australia (where it is legalized). Do you know how I view my job? As a JOB. I was not ‘desperate’ or in any way coerced, I felt like I needed a job change, and you know what – this job gets paid more, with great hours, flexibility and I can do the work (and cope with the work), so I started looking into the best places then went in for an interview. No trafficking, no pimps – seriously guys? – just a job that happens to involve sex.

By the way, I’m asexual. Sex does not interest me at all, and I am not attracted to my clients in that way. It’s not a big deal for me. Some people it would be, I understand. These people should probably not go into sex work.

There’s too much t respond to so I’m just going to leave this here. If you have any questions, I will try to answer them.

About trafficking, here is an article that is less biased than ‘BAD SEX WORK IS BAD’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/27/lies-damned-lies-and-sex-work-statistics/

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Even when it’s not as blatant as that, the commodification of sex is seen everywhere in out society. Look at advertising, if you can stomach it. Look at the still prevalent notion that marriage is a man buying sex, that women only give it up in return for material gain. Look at the bog-standard idea that buying a woman a drink or a meal means a deal has been made and she owes the man sex. Look at the woman being “given away” at the altar by a man! Commodification of sex is as old as the hills and prostitution is part of that. They feed into each other, I would think. If buying sex was considered unacceptable, how much prostitution would there be?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Also I’m too sleepy now to dig out the three sets of figures, but if you look at the parts of the world where it’s just kind of assumed that a very high percentage of men will pay for sex and line the countries that score high on that metric up next to the countries with a high level of gender inequality in general, and with stats on rape and other forms of sexual violence, oh hey, lots of overlap. Again impossible to cleanly separate chicken and egg, but having lived in a couple of those places and knowing people (like Mr C) who’ve lived in others I’m really not convinced that the widespread purchasing of sex and the idea that that’s an acceptable thing for men to do isn’t having a negative impact on the way men view the women in their lives and the way women’s role in society is framed in a more general sense.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

@kitteh’s and Cassandra

I’m glad.

Re; Commodification

It’s not that I disagree that sex work is interacting with the misogyny of current society to affect how men see women. I just feel that, considering the level of misogyny that already exists, that it’s hard to say that this is something that is inherent to sex work. Part of the reason I feel this way is that I have never heard anyone finding that this is a trend found in gay communities, or that this is a trend found with women who engage sex workers. As far as I can see, this is pretty much solely a problem with how men are interacting with/viewing women. Of course this could also be because most of the focus is on men who buy sex from women, what with them being the overwhelming majority of clients (again thanks to sexism), and maybe this is a trend that has been found with people who buy sex in general. If it’s only a trend in sexist men, however, I do believe that the problem is not with the availabilty of sex workers, but with the misogynistic attitudes in society and these men, and that therefore it will become lesser and lesser as misogyny in society reduces.

That being said, it’s 5 and I need to get some sleep. I also think I should bow back out of this conversation. I don’t think I have enough of a stake in this to be aware of when I may be stepping out of line, and it’s not worth risking hurting feelings or enraging people.

Night all

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

@Cassandra

I’m still not thrilled with the restaurant analogy mostly because there are lots of people who really do think that sex shouldn’t be seen as any more intimate or personal than something like waiting tables (the “it’s like any other service job” argument that they were talking about in the Der Speigel article), which has resulted in attempts to get women who apply for benefits in places where sex work is legal to take jobs in the industry on the principle that, hey, just like any other service job

This was definitely not my intention. I am used to the “just like any other service job” argument from the side of my friends who do sex work, as well as other sex workers online, who are constantly combatting the idea that the fact that they work in the sex industry means that their lives, and life decisions, outside of work are defined by that. The angle of “It’s just like any other service job so get out there and do it if you need money” didn’t occur to me, and I’m perfectly happy to refrain from making that kind of comparison

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

I followed the sex toy/dog toy link (10/15 – go me!) and ended up down a rabbit hole.

These made me laugh out loud – http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/10/office-challenge-youve-got-the-whole-week-ahead-of-you-to-beat-these-desk-safari-efforts-4826740/

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Kim, those are a hoot! I think the woman/Afghan hound is the winner – she picked something her hair blended with. 😀

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Next time you go out to the bar, you remember that moment, and decide to raise your maturity standards a little

He stops asking people to pull his finger?

Liz Baker (@wizardofliz)

There actually have been and continue to be LOTS of female (and PoC) inventors. Lots and lots. Being systematically erased from history and having for example your scientific discoveries named after a white dude who got there literally hundreds of years later is just what almost always happens to them.

Here’s a list of just 19 things invented by women, and a list of modern female inventors (plenty of overlap, since both are relatively modern inventions and inventors only). Then there are the tumblr posts floating around with very young women of color who are doing amazing things RIGHT NOW, all of them in their teens, making them one of the most universally and nonsensically reviled groups in the world. (Ew, teen girls, so vapid!)

And seriously, this stuff doesn’t stop when you go back further in time, it’s just that it was and remains very hard for women, most especially women of color, to get credit for anything. The Western assumption is that women were uneducated until the early 19th century, in all countries, for all of human history, and is kind of totally not true at all.

Women were some of the first inventors, the first scientists, the first mathematicians, the first astronomers. The world’s first doctor was probably this African woman.

So… yeah. Basically I’m writing all this to say,

a.) women have not always been denied education, because not every society since the dawn of time has been sexist. Indeed, it’s generally accepted that before agriculture, all societies were egalitarian, and through the rest of human history there have continued to be societies that were more egalitarian than 19th century America.

b.) even where they were, it didn’t stop them from inventing things. The real trouble is that the history we are taught is both deeply sexist and deeply white supremacist (and claims as white, either explicitly or by omission, MANY MANY PEOPLE AND CULTURES THAT WERE NOT).

A huge amount of our current history was written (or, more accurately, rewritten) by white men from the 1700s onwards, and they brought their biases into everything. From the tombs where skeletons were assigned gender based on our stereotypes (that one tomb recently, for example, where genetic testing proved the skeleton buried with the weapon was a woman and the one with a necklace was a man? Previously just assumed to be the other way around for no goddamned reason beyond sexism), to the very use of words like “dark ages” to describe a time when Europe floundered but the Middle East fucking flourished, or ignoring the fact that that flourishing and a great deal of Islamic effort to bring Europe their knowledge is WHY the “renaissance” “happened”.

This is a great post, and I love this site, but yeah. The phrasing really gives faaaaar too much credence to the red piller’s sexism. Women (and people of color of both genders) haven’t, actually, underperformed. The reason why it seems like white men invented damn near everything is that a great deal of effort has been gone to in order to perpetuate that illusion.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
6 years ago

The story of the cotton gin’s invention is my favorite. Not only did a woman bankroll the venture, but she developed the final piece that made the whole thing work (the comb that removed the seeds). So, she paid for it, and her ingenuity made it work, but history still puts Eli Whitney’s name on it.

vaiyt
6 years ago

where genetic testing proved the skeleton buried with the weapon was a woman and the one with a necklace was a man? Previously just assumed to be the other way around for no goddamned reason beyond sexism)

Not only that, but when the mixup was discovered, the sword that was interred “with” the man as a symbol of power suddenly was now “between” them as a symbol of union.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

barely-sentient organic sex toys,

…but they don’t hate women, they’re not misogynists. It’s just that women are monsters, you see.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

don’t work at all and you’ll end up homeless, work your ass off and you could make millions.

That’s hilarious. When someone is this cluelessly horrible, you just know they’re a libertarian.

It’s also funny that he complains that women worry too much with their appearance, then says that their looks are all that matter to him. He whines that women are too boring, but when they speak they are “loud c*nts” and they’re still not interesting.

I’d wager this guy is telling the truth about the awkward silence after sex with him. I just don’t think he’s being honest with us or himself about why the women who take him home don’t have much to say to him after sex. We’ve read about what “red pillers” think good sex is like. I can only imagine the disappointment and awkwardness as his casual partner tries to politely suggest that the evening is over, no she doesn’t want to hear more about how awesome he is and how I’d be thinking “kthanksby. No, don’t leave your number. You’ve wasted enough of my time.”

That’s the Catch-22 of the Red Pill. It gives you all the women you could ever want, but you see them for what they really are.

Bwahahahahahaaaaaa! Suuuuure.

Blue Pillers just ignore the game and continue to get screwed over because they have no idea what they’re doing.

Men who don’t accept this idiotic drivel don’t need a stupid label. They’re just plain ‘ol men and they A. Aren’t all straight and B. See the world far more clearly than the whiny, angry manbabies of the manosphere. The fragility of these misogynists is so obvious. For all of their claims of being “Alpha” and having the world all figured out, they’re really so muddled and scared. Men who don’t hate women enough are all getting “screwed over”? That’s demonstrably untrue. Hating, lying, raping, abusing and having your head wedged firmly in your bigoted ass is not winning. It’s a horrible way to go through life. I’d pity them, if it wasn’t exactly what these asshats deserve. I wish they would all just go their own way and leave the rest of the world alone.

Ciara
Ciara
6 years ago

hold the fuck up a minute…. one second women who spend more time on their character or education than their appearance are a bunch of hideous bitches who should be burned at the stake and these “redpillers” are happy to remind them that their only worth is physical attractiveness, another second women are a bunch of shallow harlots who dare to spend all their time gettin’ pretty and not being interesting or smart. WHICH ONE IS IT? WHAT DO YOU WANT? IS THERE ANY WAY WOMEN CAN ACT THAT ISN’T WRONG? I’m starting to think that this ‘red pill thinking’ is a bunch of directionless bilge and these guys are trying to find any and every reason to leigitimize their innate hatred of women?