Attention tiny ladies! Paul Elam wants you to know that if you attack him, he will totally punch you right back. And not in a satirical way, either. With his actual, non-satirical fists.
A Voice for Men’s maximum leader has long insisted that his notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was nothing more than misunderstood “satire.” That is, when he argued that men who are abused by women would be totally justified if they “beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall,” this was somehow a “Juvenalian” satire of some sort. There’s a famous quote from The Princess Bride that might be appropriate here.
Well, now Mr. Elam has announced to the world that every month is a potential “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” for him. Even if the “Violent Bitch” in question is less than half his size. In a post that he insists is super serious, he writes:
I want to offer a few words on this subject, and this time not in satire. I want to convey as honestly as possible, how I feel on the subject of violence between the sexes, from one man’s point of view.
I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.
Now, Elam does stop short of saying he would “beat the living shit” out of this hypothetical tiny woman, but, you know, in the heat of battle with someone less than half his size, he suggests that he might not be able to control his non-satirical fists:
I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees. Depending on the suddenness of the attack, the level of fear or threat I might feel, the impulse to self-defend in measured amounts is difficult, if not impossible to predict with any accuracy.
So, if there are any tiny ladies out there who might be considering jumping in a pool and then punching Paul Elam, I would suggest you not do that. Of course, I would suggest you not do that even if he weren’t going to hit back, because hitting people is generally a very bad thing.
Don’t worry, dudes – tiny or otherwise – Elam would totally punch you too!
It is the same reaction I would have to a man. No more and no less. The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.
Presumably this would also apply to bears, giant squids, killer robots and anyone or anything else that tried to put its hands or paws or tentacles on him.
Now, if someone less than half my size were to attack me, and the situation weren’t life-threatening, I might, you know, back off and call the police instead. But apparently, this isn’t an option for men, because we’re all slaves, or something:
Most people who frequent this site know that men who call for help from police when being assaulted by female intimate partners are likely to be arrested for their troubles. … [T]here are prosecutors that will happily give the victim a criminal record and make them pay dearly for having been attacked.
This idea is completely insane on its face. Not only that, it is the closest thing we have today to the mentality of slave owners who could flog their slaves because they were property.
Never mind that women, who make up the vast majority of the victims of severe domestic violence, make up 20% of those arrested for DV. Never mind that even where there are mandatory arrest laws in effect, police still need probable or reasonable cause to show that domestic violence occurred – like physical evidence of injuries – before arresting a suspect. Never mind that even in states with “dual arrrest” policies, only about half of all domestic violence calls result in any arrests.
And never mind that if you use disproportionate force against someone less than half your size – as Elam suggests he very well might do – you deserve to go to jail, and for more than a night. “Beating the living shit” out of someone much smaller than you isn’t actually self-defense at all. It’s beating the living shit out of someone much smaller than you.
Now, Elam isn’t the only Men’s Rights Activist who seems to spend a lot of time imagining scenarios in which it would be ok for them to hit women. It’s a subject that comes up on the Men’s Rights subreddit all the time; the misogynistic douchebags who populate Reddit’s Videos subreddit are if anything even worse. And don’t ever do a Google image search for “equal rights equal lefts” unless you want to be really depressed.
The Men’s Rights movement: bravely fighting for the right of men to punch women half their size.
Why, thank you! I’ve been following this blog for a bit, I just finally got pissed off enough to rant, heh. My situation isn’t even the worst in my city. A friend adopted his teenaged half-brother after their father beat his mother to death in front of him. The guy wasn’t even arrested. The woman who founded the DV assistance program here (which no longer exists) was beaten to death by her ex husband, against whom she had an Order of Protection, in front of her children and the babysitter. The lawyer who got him acquitted was one of the team who got my mother’s husband acquitted. Supposedly he’s mobbed up–serves The Outfit out of Chicago. We have a problem with them in our city as well, but not so big of a problem as our corrupt police chief and misogynistic judges. I want to do something to get involved with changing all of that, but I’m not even sure where to start. It seems hopeless.
On top of that, the perpetually rocky living situation all that fun stuff left me in kept me busy just surviving. I slept outside the first night away from the ex. Luckily, I had a couple friends who refused to abandon me during that relationship so I was able to stay with one for a bit, but my mental state was pretty awful and none of them knew how to handle it. I bounced around for awhile, then met my current boyfriend who was the first incentive I had to not only fix myself but live at all in many and many-a. On meds, in therapy, and looking forward to less helpless rage, nightmares, and anxiety.
Thanks, y’all. 🙂
Yup, that’s what I recall, too. I followed the trial as part of my journalism school studies…we all did. And yes, Paul Bernardo’s attitude is very emblematic of abusive psychopaths in general, as well as strikingly similar to the MRAs, who all seem to think they’re so much smarter than the rest of us (for proof of that thinking, and also how full of shit it is, see the thread just below this one.)
@Phoenician: I compartmentalize really well. 🙂
@ryeash: I am pleased that things are going better for you now. I can offer virtual hugs and virtual kitties if you want them.
Also, hello and hugs to ryeash…what an absolutely awful thing to have to go through! Glad you made it through all that. Good to see you here!
LOL sorry, Phoenician, I didn’t phrase that too well, did I? If it’s any consolation I choked laughing reading your reply. XD
From what I’ve gathered, they either aren’t aware that such people exist, or they don’t recognize them as men. Either way, they don’t do shit for them.
@ Ryeash, glad you made it through. PTSD is yucky, but it can be managed-and there’s new treatments for it in the pipeline that I’m really waiting impatiently for.
My thought would be that…if the judge is corrupt in your town, that would be either a state or federal investigative matter.
I asked google, it seems to think that would be an FBI matter.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Belated: dustedeste, that sofa looks sooooo comfy!
Just wanted to note that not all Mammotheers co-sign this idea that hitting a 9 year old is reasonable and appropriate behavior. I really don’t feel like getting into a long, involved conversation about this given how much the initial comment irritated me, but just for the record, for those reading along who never comment? No, not all Mammotheers think that hitting your 9 your old child is OK.
— teh booring discussion where i find myself repeating over and over to people who do not read what i type or do not want to c where i am coming from
I am unknown/new, therefor the weaker more voiceless person in this room –
u demand of me to conform to ur social conduct (i have not said we shouldnt be civilized)
but i, at first with a smiley, implied that i do not need nor do i want to be parented by this forum. I am my owm person and if i then do -the horrible!! dubble posting a link then a quote then the word “spam”) and someone tells me not to do this i can and will ofc reply with a wtf is ur problem on some lvl cause its just so pointless and rude.
ofc—– if i woulda been smart —-i woulda replied sry ofc i wont quote like this write the word spam and with huge letters write I DONT THINK THIS MYSELF – this is a quote
but i lived under the impression it was an intellectually open place
and that the general way of meeting people wasnt to parent them
u tell me how i sound in ur ears (eyes) DUSTEDEST
without body lang .. or my facial expressions
but ive also told “u” how “u” sound (“u” then ofc not beeing u personally
but people throughout this discussion)’
– – and in the post before i told “u” ma nickname.
well then if someone wonders maybe ask instead of parent? just a fking social pro tip -´_
i have not told u how to behave i have told u how not to behave vs me.
however ive been told not to post links like that, not to quote like that, to stay on …topic…, to stay silent, to prove im … usefull… and more
…and u ofc missunderstood what i meant by my kindness/mean statement…
cause why would u understand what im typing, apparently i am some kind of communication
meltdown and the words i type is not the words u read.
u know ofc i wanted to be well recived but i also wanted to be well recived.
advice? no i have gotten very few advices mostly judgements and parenting attemts.
tell me do tell me please someone what is my “demands”?
”
well kirbywarp easy to say that this comes from a feeling u imply i have of beeing “ignored”
when i much rather woulda been “ignored” then partly “ignored” (as in not read) -misinterpreted then scolded for quoting and linking and lacking of a communication/opinion which could be found very close and i made available ofc in the/this thread itself.
It was not in ma mind that was the respons i would get. I would have voted for “ignored”
before that – it was not in my world all this…
I also had no idea u had such strong feelings about quotes and links and that there was a special set of rules for this which i ofc would never follow.
ill quote link and refuse to give my own opinion at any time. freely.
“settle down start over” well ofc i could do that but id like u to stop telling me what i feel and why.
Ill try to add something i rly feel something personal
even though ofc this insane discussion has made it so much harder
i used to feel i could be myself here i also used to feel that
it was a place filled with (horrible) humor, such a relif when that is ofc
not at all what i feel about -this- and that one could openly move around subjects and selfexpression
i felt that “manboobz”(.com) was ma friend even though i never spoke
it was a fun place a place who didnt go into the pointless arguments or schooling
where a thread was filled with cats, smileys and pretty awesome ways of dealing with “them”
then i got this respons::: “Jesus, khamzin, stop pushing that Vice link and stop trolling.”
–
after i tried to explain myself, cause i found it harsh to be viewd as a troll and when u say that u mean an antifeminst who thinks women should be abuded and in this context i got this
“Sorry, khamzin, your formatting was fucked.
But just as a handy thing, if you post a link and no one wants to talk about it, let it lie.” — as if i was pushing the subject when i was trying to show u that the quote is not my opinion and also my intent (where i came from with ma post). I did this once again not to push this fucking subject but so u would know that u came from good thoughts.
i also explained why i posted it twice “well that is good advice but I do notice that the topic of the day is where the communication usualy happens and I found this article to fit so very well into today”
then i get this “Rule of Linking:
In a week’s span, the correct number of times to link to an article is not twice, not thrice, but once.
If it is a kitty picture, exceptions can be made.
Or a nopetopus gif.”
and i was like wtf who says that? who cares, its not like i actually spammed.
followed up by this wierd comment from a person who hasnt read the things i wrote before (still ok but it means it comes from a place of lack of understanding)
“khamzin, I didn’t get your purpose from what you were posting either. If you want to see the mamotheers take down that particular post of Elam’s do your own research in the blog history, there was stuff about it when it happened.
Also, prefacing your comments with “spam spam” is a good way to make everyone think that you’re a troll who enjoys spamming threads trying to move things off-topic. So y’know, maybe don’t do that. Instead, put your questions up front, with a link and a snippet and see if the commentariat want to contribute.”
the spam thing was in context to what i wrote before the specific quote from him was not the thing i adressed but the vice “journalist” point of view i dont want to disect the entire article now but it is so flawd in a way i thought would interest u and then im told to do ma own research on this specifc quote (as if i hadent read up on elam, as if i wasnt a reader of this and others… even though at that point i had made it pretty clear i was not them) i got told how to behave not to be viewd as them…
and i tell u ppl u r “paranoid” (which i understand, i am 2) or maybe i am bad at bulding sentences. or maybe both.
to be told 2 do research in the history of a blog ive read most of was like
waa waa no dude ur not understanding where im coming from but i do ofc get u thought it was about that specific quote. dunno why cause the link ofc spoke of something else.
and what was added in the quote misinterperated as my opinions briefly was the “journalists”.
then the spamming trying to move things off topic was like once again wtf r u talking about this is not offtopic in my eyes and after following this site for some time ive read comments and there is ofc alot alot alot of of topic. i couldnt understand rly how i was offtopic or why the topic wasnt open (as it usualy is when i read comments)
then in all this this comes out of someone “Also, as people said, once is enough. If you don’t get the response you were looking for then it’s up to you to deal with your feelings on that. You aren’t entitled to a response.”
and that is rude. and also not true. + if i post something twice why do i deserve this respons? It is harsh. Thats the first time i felt something other then play.
well first ma respons
— dude lol omg wtf ok im not entitled to conversations with ma peers? but sure no one is obligated to answer.
“well that is good advice but I do notice that the topic of the day is where the communication usualy happens and I found this article to fit so very well into today” – me again…
at this point i ofc know that most of u didnt read what i wrote before which i was pretty sure off when i publiced the quote. i also felt it suited better in this topic+ todays conversation is today yesterday is no more .. more or less. i didnt think i hurt anyone and it is mindblowing 2 me that i get misinterpedly lectured with “deal with ur feelings of beeing ignored” (which i didnt feel) and “ur not entitled to a response” which is just wierd even though i ofc agree no one owes me a response it was just so mean and uncalled for. It made me feel so unwelcome not because it was true but becuse this person had not taken the time to in anyway c me before coming to that wired point of view and yes that made me upset and sad. Y i felt ignored for trying to explain and defend and expose myself so u wouldnt be so paranoid about me
so shortly
omg ur a pro abuser
insantly realizes im not
i explain where im coming from
ur not entitled to a response go take ur feelings somewhere else
why?
kitteneh
“more then a year” i dont remember i ususaly dont count.
yes and i believed it to be a relaxed emotional seucre enviorment where discussions had many lvls
eh ok so u just asume i havent? i have though but it dosent mean i rember all of it but i am sure there is nothing in there about dubble posting a link or going ot
textspeak?!
how is my behaviour trollish wtf does that even mean in this context now?
for me right now it feels like it is cause i wont give in to what i feel is rly strange responses.
i have not spammed. i have not whined. which is a rly mean word to use and i didnt say anyone here owed me a conversation but i think its rly cruel to say ppl are not entitled to conversation with their peers. think about it.
dude dont worry i will never speak here again after this
phoenician
ofc ppl always side with their own but 2 me this felt like bullying
(#)
I second cassandrakitty, I don’t think it is OK hitting my children of any age.
@cassandra: yeah, hitting people is not something that should be encouraged or condoned. If it’s wrong to hit an adult, it’s also wrong to hit a child.
Can we get khamzin moderated or banned? It’s beyond tedious and no I didn’t read the spiel above this comment.
TL, DR.
Let me tell you how I feel, khamzin: fuck off.
Look, troll of the day, I’m not reading that bunch of letters thrown together randomly.
Take my word: you’re not nearly as smart as you think you are.
Hitting nine year olds? yeah, no.
I appreciate the virtual hugs and kitties 🙂 I live with 3 (was 4, but poor Tigg’rr had a heart attack :-(), and they always seem to make things better. One even jumped on my chest and wiped my tears away with her face once. It’s like they know when you’re unhappy.
@blahlistic Thanks for digging that up for me, I’ll look into it. My case ended up being the last straw for the judge who laughed me out of the courtroom–he was disbarred following angry letters from my mother and me. I wish that would work again; I’d be flooding some mailboxes.
No way I’m reading any of that babble.
@ Ryeash
Welcome, and don’t worry about swearing – I’m Scottish, so I’d be a bit confused if nobody did. I’m glad you’re in a better place now, at least personally. The justice system where you are sounds like a complete mess.
Emailed the mods, I think David also reads that email account.
@ everyone
The rest of the comment I pulled that from was a mess too, if you feel like experiencing the stabby mental pain of WTF is wrong with this person’s worldview and want to scroll back.
But yeah, in summary – don’t hit kids. If the kids are hitting other people and you want them to stop, use your words. If you instead hit them what you are teaching them is that it’s OK to hit people. Not a smart parenting plan.
Paul Elam just reminds me of people who go to phylosophy forums to defend outdated or just plain wrong concepts (old-school eugenics are a perpetual favorite) and act like they’re brave explorers of new ground other people fear to tread.
Gee, Mr. Elam, what a hero you are, standing up to women half your size! How much courage must that take. Tune in for next week, where Mr. Elam bravely stomps on his neighbor’s lapdog!
@vaiyt: I’m sure Paul bravely defecates out some of his intestinal flora.
khamzin, dude, calm down.
I didn’t read all that either.
I’m putting you on moderation. You started off on the wrong foot, but everyone here could have gotten beyond that pretty quickly, if you had just chilled out and taken in what people said and continued on discussing what we’re discussing here, instead of making all sorts of long dramatic and very confusing speeches and trying to make the thread all about you.
If you want to continue commenting here and get past this, come back tomorrow, write me a note, and maybe I’ll read what you said here and offer some advice. But this sort of thing won’t fly.
“i have not spammed. i have not whined.”
*posts an over 1,800 word text wall on how everyone was being so mean to you*
khamzin, everyone here has been beyond patient with you, mostly because you don’t seem to be a bad person at heart. However, you keep digging yourself further and further into a hole with every comment.
First rule of holes: Stop Digging.
Nobody is telling you how to feel, nobody is belittling you, nobody called you “pro abuser” (no idea where you even got that idea). Stop whining about how everyone is being mean, stop insisting that you only care about “niceness” when you show no effort to be nice or polite or considerate towards others.
If you can do that, you’ll find this a very nice place to be.
Thanks David.