Attention tiny ladies! Paul Elam wants you to know that if you attack him, he will totally punch you right back. And not in a satirical way, either. With his actual, non-satirical fists.
A Voice for Men’s maximum leader has long insisted that his notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was nothing more than misunderstood “satire.” That is, when he argued that men who are abused by women would be totally justified if they “beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall,” this was somehow a “Juvenalian” satire of some sort. There’s a famous quote from The Princess Bride that might be appropriate here.
Well, now Mr. Elam has announced to the world that every month is a potential “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” for him. Even if the “Violent Bitch” in question is less than half his size. In a post that he insists is super serious, he writes:
I want to offer a few words on this subject, and this time not in satire. I want to convey as honestly as possible, how I feel on the subject of violence between the sexes, from one man’s point of view.
I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.
Now, Elam does stop short of saying he would “beat the living shit” out of this hypothetical tiny woman, but, you know, in the heat of battle with someone less than half his size, he suggests that he might not be able to control his non-satirical fists:
I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees. Depending on the suddenness of the attack, the level of fear or threat I might feel, the impulse to self-defend in measured amounts is difficult, if not impossible to predict with any accuracy.
So, if there are any tiny ladies out there who might be considering jumping in a pool and then punching Paul Elam, I would suggest you not do that. Of course, I would suggest you not do that even if he weren’t going to hit back, because hitting people is generally a very bad thing.
Don’t worry, dudes – tiny or otherwise – Elam would totally punch you too!
It is the same reaction I would have to a man. No more and no less. The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.
Presumably this would also apply to bears, giant squids, killer robots and anyone or anything else that tried to put its hands or paws or tentacles on him.
Now, if someone less than half my size were to attack me, and the situation weren’t life-threatening, I might, you know, back off and call the police instead. But apparently, this isn’t an option for men, because we’re all slaves, or something:
Most people who frequent this site know that men who call for help from police when being assaulted by female intimate partners are likely to be arrested for their troubles. … [T]here are prosecutors that will happily give the victim a criminal record and make them pay dearly for having been attacked.
This idea is completely insane on its face. Not only that, it is the closest thing we have today to the mentality of slave owners who could flog their slaves because they were property.
Never mind that women, who make up the vast majority of the victims of severe domestic violence, make up 20% of those arrested for DV. Never mind that even where there are mandatory arrest laws in effect, police still need probable or reasonable cause to show that domestic violence occurred – like physical evidence of injuries – before arresting a suspect. Never mind that even in states with “dual arrrest” policies, only about half of all domestic violence calls result in any arrests.
And never mind that if you use disproportionate force against someone less than half your size – as Elam suggests he very well might do – you deserve to go to jail, and for more than a night. “Beating the living shit” out of someone much smaller than you isn’t actually self-defense at all. It’s beating the living shit out of someone much smaller than you.
Now, Elam isn’t the only Men’s Rights Activist who seems to spend a lot of time imagining scenarios in which it would be ok for them to hit women. It’s a subject that comes up on the Men’s Rights subreddit all the time; the misogynistic douchebags who populate Reddit’s Videos subreddit are if anything even worse. And don’t ever do a Google image search for “equal rights equal lefts” unless you want to be really depressed.
The Men’s Rights movement: bravely fighting for the right of men to punch women half their size.
@ Save the Queen: Know what else those quotes remind me of? Discussions on gun rights when some completely irresponsible fool who really shouldn’t have a gun starts talking about how he’s ready for when (not if) his home is invaded, or when he’s attacked by three thugs in an alley (and never mind that where he lives there are no alleys and why is it always three?), or when the government finally turns tyrannical (i.e. comes for his guns). Each scenario is always accompanied by elaborate, detailed fantasy scenarios – like how the Home Invaders have come to rape his wife and daughters and then kill them all, and how you pathetic gun-grabbers will have to just take it when (not if) it happens to you – until you realize that they’re just giving themselves reasons for violence. They really want to use their gun for its intended purpose, not just spend their lives practicing, but they want to be heroes when they do it, so they keep imagining scenarios where they are the hero. Then, a situation arises that kinda, sorta, tangentially, from their carefully-warped perspective, resembles one of their fantasy scenarios. Then boom.
There’s a mythago with a graveyard that’s cool beans. Real mythago, you’re swell.
This was clever new troll mythago, whose pseudo-mythago ness has been banned.
@dustedeste: I just got a new couch too! Where is yours from? Any pics online?
Edit: I meant “maintaining.” I can’t spell today. -_-
Yay, new sofas! I would love a new chair and ottoman, but my furry overlords will not let me have nice things, so slipcovers it is.
See, this is why they say it’s a good idea to read a message board for a couple of days before you start posting. You’ll get a feel for what’s considered inappropriate by the community and how hostile the members are towards inappropriate behavior.
You started off by cutting-and-pasting a long quote from an article with no added content of your own; that’s considered rude in most on-line communities. You also prefaced it with “spam spam”, which I think people took as an indication that you knew you were being rude.
Normally what you’d want to do in this situation is post a brief summary of the quote, follow it with the hyperlink in case anyone wants to read the whole thing, and then add your own original commentary. In some cases you might also need to say a few lines about why you think it’s relevant to the topic at hand.
So that was your first mistake. Your second mistake was getting defensive when people called you out on the first one. In general, it generates a lot of hostility if you come into a community as an outsider and immediately demand that people make changes to suit you. If you don’t want to deal with a lot of hostility, it’s better to try to integrate yourself into the community first, and then ask for changes after you’ve established yourself as a valuable contributor. [That said, there are some situations where it’s praiseworthy to demand changes immediately and just endure the hostility. This isn’t one of those situations, though.]
Anyway, welcome to ‘We Hunted the Mammoth’! Please try to do better next time.
khamzin, settle down. You came in with a comment prefaced with “spam, spam,” and a long quote. Not great for introducing yourself, and we get drive-by trolls regularly, so an odd opening is going to set off alarms.
You were told “you are not entitled to a conversation with your peers” when you bounced in saying you were just looking for stimulating conversation, and expressed disappointment that you weren’t getting it. Sorry, not everything you say is going to trigger great conversation. Sometimes there are flops.
How about you back up, say hi, and start with an on-topic comment? See where it goes from there.
Dang, ninja’d.
@seraph4377 – yes, the Liam Neeson fantasy. Hollywood has not done us any favours in that department.
Hey hey. I lurk here a lot, but felt like piping up because this particular subject is one I come across a lot. And I mean, A LOT. Seriously. What’s with the MRA desire to hit women?
Nearest I can figure is that it’s a defense mechanism, baked into the mission statement. “Put up with my shit, or I’ll get violent”.
They love the excuse to escalate from verbal abuse to physical.
I’m really amazed that such a repulsive git could even be married once, never mind 3-4 times, or however many it may be. What kind of fool does a woman have to be to fall for THAT? But the fact that they all left him is very telling. Just a pity it took them that long to find out what rock this troglodyte crawled out from under. I hope the exes are feeling much better now.
@YoullNeverGuess: It’s this sofa! It is the first sofa I have ever bought (not counting the futon I bought at the YMCA thrift store in college, haha), and I am simultaneously super excited and kind of nervous that we just spent half a month’s rent on a piece of furniture. We’ll probably throw a blanket over it for day-to-day use because we are not the tidiest people, haha.
I think it’s a combination of things. Entitlement, superiority, viewing women as less than and as property or something for their amusement. They also have very fragile egos. In order to get back their much coveted pride, they need to be ultra-masculine and dominating. And one of the best ways to do that, is violence.
Khamzin,
Mind if we both take a deep breath and apologize for stepping on eachother’s toes? Let’s try to start this over:
Hi, I’m contrapangloss. I sometimes snark before refreshing, which means my snarks are often ninja’d, which leads to them seeming a lot more pile-on ish than I sometimes intend.
I tend to equate pushing links and “let’s all discuss this very important article” to trolls, sometimes unfairly. I almost always type with a light facetious tone in my head, of the sort that sometimes I even have trouble deciding whether I’m being serious or not.
I like newbies. Been there (am still sort of there), done that (well, still doing that). I sometimes forget that not everyone gets standard blog etiquette of single posting links, not repeating oneself, and suchlike.
Commenters here can be really nice if you don’t hit the big red buttons on their trolldars. If you accidentally hit a button, it can usually be forgiven.
I’ve hit them. Deep breaths, and a break, then a quick sorry generally smooths things over… Which reminds me, I probably have an apology to make in another thread.
Of you’d like, a good format for introducing a new topic with a link is:
“Hey! I found this article that makes me feel weird/relates to the topic/is kind of awful. Does anyone feel like doing a takedown?”
Then, drop the link. I’d highly suggest using donotlink.com, because trolls often try to use comments to get clicks for their blogs, or their buddies blogs. The donotlink makes it look less suspiciously spamtastic.
Have a good day, and I hope things start looking better for you.
-contrapangloss
@Kate“I don’t know why this is rubbing me so entirely wrong, but… proportional responses is how countries talk about war. It’s not how people talk about inter-personal conflict is it?”
It is. It’s written into self-defense law.
@David
If the child was an older child, say 9 or 10, I probably would hit back. My daughter is only 9, but she already surprises my hubby and our male family members with her strength. As for me, I may be a small woman, but you’re a fool if you don’t thik that I could seriously hurt you. Yes, in an abstract sense men are stronger than me, just as I am stronger than my 9 year old, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not strong enough to hurt you. No offense, but you’re being patronizing. ;p This isn’t some old timey movie where I would pound harmlessly on your chest with little fists. ;p
Sorry if I seems out of line, but this attitude annoys me, as I believe it interferes with women/girls willingness to defend themselves from larger men.
@Seraph
I don’t often dare to tread into gun debates but from what have seen, I think you’re right. It’s fantasizing about being dominant over someone else through violence without really thinking about the real-world consequences of that violence. It’s profoundly dehumanizing and a recipe for tragedy,.
Kirbywarp,thanksmuchforthatlink.Ispilledteaonmykeyboardandmyspacebarisnotworking:)
@dustedeste, that is a very hot little number! I like the color a lot.
My couch is usually covered with a blanket, since I’m pretty messy too. I think it can be a better option than getting custom pillows. You still get a pop from a nice blanket, and then you spill your coffee on that, not the couch.
@Contrapangloss:
Rule of Linking:
In a week’s span, the correct number of times to link to an article is not twice, not thrice, but once.
What about this link?
@Bina, Elam seems to appeal deeply to a certain type of person. Look at all the rubes who fund his lifestyle. I don’t see it myself. Maybe he gives off an, “I’m deep and troubled, fix me!” vibe in person. Who knows.
Wasnt Elam a ANGER COUNCILOR for shits sake?
fucking disgusting.
Yeah…probably. Just like Ted Bundy. Or this other Paul, who’s an even bigger shit than Paulie.
I don’t see what they see in them, but I admit that I have a bias against wild-eyed ranty types.
I’ve been had!
Phonecian, uncool hiding a YouTube Rickrolling under the innocent guise of a donotlink hidden blue link! Uncool.
Well played.
I’m now trying to decide that song should never, ever, ever be linked to again, or whether it’s the troll anthem for the Canadian thread that gets continually necro’d, and needs to be linked over there…
I clicked on Phonecian’s link and saw that it was going to Rick Astley. Rickrolled in two thousand-freaking-fourteen. Gave me a chuckle.
I actually don’t mind the song. Reminds of one of first girlfriends, who had awesome taste in literature, but pretty weird taste in music – given she still fawned over the song ten years after it came out..
Gah, more typos. One of *my* first girlfriends. And excuse the double periods.