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Paul Elam: "If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back."

Should these books be required reading for MRAs?
Should these books be required reading for MRAs?

Attention tiny ladies! Paul Elam wants you to know that if you attack him, he will totally punch you right back. And not in a satirical way, either. With his actual, non-satirical fists.

A Voice for Men’s maximum leader has long insisted that his notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was nothing more than misunderstood “satire.” That is, when he argued that men who are abused by women would be totally justified if they “beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall,” this was somehow a “Juvenalian” satire of some sort. There’s a famous quote from The Princess Bride that might be appropriate here.

Well, now Mr. Elam has announced to the world that every month is a potential “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” for him. Even if the “Violent Bitch” in question is less than half his size. In a post that he insists is super serious, he writes:

I want to offer a few words on this subject, and this time not in satire. I want to convey as honestly as possible, how I feel on the subject of violence between the sexes, from one man’s point of view.

I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.

Now, Elam does stop short of saying he would “beat the living shit” out of this hypothetical tiny woman, but, you know, in the heat of battle with someone less than half his size, he suggests that he might not be able to control his non-satirical fists:

I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees. Depending on the suddenness of the attack, the level of fear or threat I might feel, the impulse to self-defend in measured amounts is difficult, if not impossible to predict with any accuracy.

So, if there are any tiny ladies out there who might be considering jumping in a pool and then punching Paul Elam, I would suggest you not do that. Of course, I would suggest you not do that even if he weren’t going to hit back, because hitting people is generally a very bad thing.

Don’t worry, dudes – tiny or otherwise – Elam would totally punch you too!

It is the same reaction I would have to a man. No more and no less. The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.

Presumably this would also apply to bears, giant squids, killer robots and anyone or anything else that tried to put its hands or paws or tentacles on him.

Now, if someone less than half my size were to attack me, and the situation weren’t life-threatening, I might, you know, back off and call the police instead. But apparently, this isn’t an option for men, because we’re all slaves, or something:

Most people who frequent this site know that men who call for help from police when being assaulted by female intimate partners are likely to be arrested for their troubles. … [T]here are prosecutors that will happily give the victim a criminal record and make them pay dearly for having been attacked.

This idea is completely insane on its face. Not only that, it is the closest thing we have today to the mentality of slave owners who could flog their slaves because they were property.

Never mind that women, who make up the vast majority of the victims of severe domestic violence, make up 20% of those arrested for DV. Never mind that even where there are mandatory arrest laws in effect, police still need probable or reasonable cause to show that domestic violence occurred – like physical evidence of injuries – before arresting a suspect. Never mind that even in states with “dual arrrest” policies, only about half of all domestic violence calls result in any arrests.

And never mind that if you use disproportionate force against someone less than half your size – as Elam suggests he very well might do – you deserve to go to jail, and for more than a night. “Beating the living shit” out of someone much smaller than you isn’t actually self-defense at all. It’s beating the living shit out of someone much smaller than you.

Now, Elam isn’t the only Men’s Rights Activist who seems to spend a lot of time imagining scenarios in which it would be ok for them to hit women. It’s a subject that comes up on the Men’s Rights subreddit all the time; the misogynistic douchebags who populate Reddit’s Videos subreddit are if anything even worse. And don’t ever do a Google image search for “equal rights equal lefts” unless you want to be really depressed.

The Men’s Rights movement: bravely fighting for the right of men to punch women half their size.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

The fact that someone is poor enough to be on benefits does not create a situation where any random with an opinion gets to tell them what their priorities should be or how they should be allowed to spend what little money they have. This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp.

beegee
beegee
10 years ago

@kitteh, I was explaining how I know that she too strong to subdue. If I get my ass kicked trying to pin her down while playing around, then how would I do better if it was serious? I didn’t expect people to take it as if I was beating or hurting her.

I’ve been on benefits as well. May be on soon again as we’re going through bankruptcy. Being on welfare doesn’t make one a drug addict. Repeatedly failing a drug test, in the face of consequences, makes it pretty likely however.

So maybe once upon a time I’ve done some drugs, I’ve seen what happens to others. It’s terrible to let go of someone, but enableing them by giving them money is bad news.
@Cassandra, I’ve been drug tested for every job I worked, serious business or not. High or drunk people are liabilities.

@Ally, is Peyote even tested for? Is it used so frequently that it would cause repeated failings? Even if it did, it falls under the same umbrella as people who use narcotics for pain. It’s a poor GOTCHYA.

It’s coke, heroin, and to some extent booze that need to be tested for.

marinerachel
marinerachel
10 years ago

How are people supposed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps if they don’t have bootstraps?

Seriously, we shit on poor people for being poor which prevents them from overcoming poverty. You can’t overcome poverty if all your costs go to covering survival necessities. Until the resources are available to people to portray themselves as not poor they will remain poor (until the world stops discriminating against the poor, which it won’t for some time.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’ve never been drug tested for a job. You really need to stop universalizing your own situation, beegee.

(And learn the concept of boundaries.)

marinerachel
marinerachel
10 years ago

Nor I.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

So maybe once upon a time I’ve done some drugs, I’ve seen what happens to others. It’s terrible to let go of someone, but enableing them by giving them money is bad news.

Oh, so do you suggest that anyone who’s employed and drug-addicted shouldn’t get paid? That’s enabling them, isn’t it? Or could it be just the usual hypocrisy of punishing people for being unemployed that’s at play here?

Thirty years in the workforce, including state and federal public service, and I’ve never been drug-tested, nor known more than one person who might possibly have been, because of their line of work. Not that we’re quite as paranoid about drugs here as the US seems to be (amazing, innit, countries differ). As cassandra said, stop universalising your experience.

All you’re doing is heaping yet more pain and indiginity upon those who already have enough to deal with.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’ve been around the music industry for long enough to know that the number of pros who’ve never taken drugs is, well, let’s just say they’re a minority. Stop paying musicians today!

This really is one of the dumbest discussions I’ve ever seen involving a non-troll. Feel shame, beegee.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Yup. Fleetwood Mac shouldn’t have been paid a dime for Rumours.

Hyatt
Hyatt
10 years ago

@LBT

some random stranger on the Internet compared me to Andy Blake (serial abuser, manipulator, and cult-maker) because I’m married to hubby

Whaaaaat? (…asks another random-to-you stranger; been lurking for a while.) But being familiar with Andy Blake’s fandom history, I have to wonder how anyone can compare a stranger on the internet to him, especially using being married to someone as a point of comparison.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I’d never heard heard of this Andy Blake character before, and looked him up, which led me to … MSTing Andy Blake!

Even skimming it, there’s so much wtfery about this guy. Claiming to be Elijah Wood? To be an actual other physical person who’s here on earth right now?

That’s taking appropriation to a whole new level. Fuck this guy, even before the abusive shit.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I just wonder what Wood thought about that, if he heard about it. That would certainly be a bizarre experience, having someone else wandering around claiming to be you.

katz
10 years ago

So beegee IS against needle exchanges, right? I wasn’t sure amidst the poorly phrased sarcasm.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I just wonder what Wood thought about that, if he heard about it. That would certainly be a bizarre experience, having someone else wandering around claiming to be you.

Did you ever see I Am Bob? That was funny – Bob Geldof getting caught up in a Bob Geldof lookalike contest, and of course, nobody believes he is the real one.

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
10 years ago

ugh LBT you aren’t anything like Andy Blake. I mean you haven’t even started one cult! Therefore you automatically fail at being him. (no seriously that sucks I’m sorry)

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Can we drug test the bankers and financiers first? And if any of them fail, boot them out of their jobs? Which group last tanked the economy? Hint: not people on benefits.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
10 years ago

Whoa, this thread escalated almost as quickly as Paul Elam’s self-defense.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Or have John Barrowman illustrating how men can use their social privilege to shut down sexist bullshit.

http://rosalindlutece.co.vu/post/68887664339

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

John Barrowman is awesome. It’s weird seeing him as the bad guy in Arrow, I’m used to him as Captain Jack.Harkness /swoons

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

And then, on the other side of the men getting to choose whether to be allies to women or not divide, we have No Self Awareness Man.

http://dmh3000.tumblr.com/post/75860973597/atopfourthwall-sailormegzie

I know this looks like it was intended as a joke about how, hey, maybe if you don’t cover your stuff in disembodied boobs women will pay more attention to what you’re doing, but nope. We’re supposed to empathize with Boobs Comic Guy.

Gen
Gen
10 years ago

I honestly don’t see the problem with people who are addicts having money, beegee. Do you think they’ll quit the drugs if they don’t have money to buy drugs?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Such beautiful kitty photos – beautiful photography as well as beautiful kitties.

Yay John Barrowman, and what jackass drew that stupid comic? It would have been funny if the guy who drew Green Lantern had said something about the first guy’s creepy cover, but nope.

Malitia
Malitia
10 years ago

I know this looks like it was intended as a joke about how, hey, maybe if you don’t cover your stuff in disembodied boobs women will pay more attention to what you’re doing, but nope. We’re supposed to empathize with Boobs Comic Guy.

All those “don’t judge a book by its cover!” comments on it. WOW. As a reader I don’t have time to read all the books as there is an ocean of reading material out there. Covers are advertisements, that tell me, who the creators wanted to sell it (occasionally wrongly, but still) and what to expect (superhero stuff? sci-fi? romance? something weird? BOOBS?). While a good cover doesn’t guarantee a good book, but at least shows some level of care. My point is: COVERS ARE IMPORTANT DAMN IT!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Yup. Not interested in a book featuring breasts, least of all if it’s purporting to be humorous. Sleazy dudebro “humour”, do not want.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Yeah, that cover immediately scans as “LOL, women, amirite?”. Anyone used to interpreting pictures as symbols (ie most people, especially if they read comics) will interpret it as the cover art equivalent of a NO GURLS ALLOWED sign on a treehouse. Which to the creator was apparently just what a generic comic cover looks like, which, again, is why the whole thing is so unintentionally funny. Just add a few captions or one more panel and it’s feminist satire pointing out how reflexively sexist geek culture is.

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