Attention tiny ladies! Paul Elam wants you to know that if you attack him, he will totally punch you right back. And not in a satirical way, either. With his actual, non-satirical fists.
A Voice for Men’s maximum leader has long insisted that his notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was nothing more than misunderstood “satire.” That is, when he argued that men who are abused by women would be totally justified if they “beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall,” this was somehow a “Juvenalian” satire of some sort. There’s a famous quote from The Princess Bride that might be appropriate here.
Well, now Mr. Elam has announced to the world that every month is a potential “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” for him. Even if the “Violent Bitch” in question is less than half his size. In a post that he insists is super serious, he writes:
I want to offer a few words on this subject, and this time not in satire. I want to convey as honestly as possible, how I feel on the subject of violence between the sexes, from one man’s point of view.
I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.
Now, Elam does stop short of saying he would “beat the living shit” out of this hypothetical tiny woman, but, you know, in the heat of battle with someone less than half his size, he suggests that he might not be able to control his non-satirical fists:
I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees. Depending on the suddenness of the attack, the level of fear or threat I might feel, the impulse to self-defend in measured amounts is difficult, if not impossible to predict with any accuracy.
So, if there are any tiny ladies out there who might be considering jumping in a pool and then punching Paul Elam, I would suggest you not do that. Of course, I would suggest you not do that even if he weren’t going to hit back, because hitting people is generally a very bad thing.
Don’t worry, dudes – tiny or otherwise – Elam would totally punch you too!
It is the same reaction I would have to a man. No more and no less. The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.
Presumably this would also apply to bears, giant squids, killer robots and anyone or anything else that tried to put its hands or paws or tentacles on him.
Now, if someone less than half my size were to attack me, and the situation weren’t life-threatening, I might, you know, back off and call the police instead. But apparently, this isn’t an option for men, because we’re all slaves, or something:
Most people who frequent this site know that men who call for help from police when being assaulted by female intimate partners are likely to be arrested for their troubles. … [T]here are prosecutors that will happily give the victim a criminal record and make them pay dearly for having been attacked.
This idea is completely insane on its face. Not only that, it is the closest thing we have today to the mentality of slave owners who could flog their slaves because they were property.
Never mind that women, who make up the vast majority of the victims of severe domestic violence, make up 20% of those arrested for DV. Never mind that even where there are mandatory arrest laws in effect, police still need probable or reasonable cause to show that domestic violence occurred – like physical evidence of injuries – before arresting a suspect. Never mind that even in states with “dual arrrest” policies, only about half of all domestic violence calls result in any arrests.
And never mind that if you use disproportionate force against someone less than half your size – as Elam suggests he very well might do – you deserve to go to jail, and for more than a night. “Beating the living shit” out of someone much smaller than you isn’t actually self-defense at all. It’s beating the living shit out of someone much smaller than you.
Now, Elam isn’t the only Men’s Rights Activist who seems to spend a lot of time imagining scenarios in which it would be ok for them to hit women. It’s a subject that comes up on the Men’s Rights subreddit all the time; the misogynistic douchebags who populate Reddit’s Videos subreddit are if anything even worse. And don’t ever do a Google image search for “equal rights equal lefts” unless you want to be really depressed.
The Men’s Rights movement: bravely fighting for the right of men to punch women half their size.
RE: wewereemergencies
Why the fuck do beegee’s icons keep changing.
Must be using different email addresses. Not sure why she’s doing that.
You guys are doing a better job dealing with beegee than i would (seriously, scroll up and read GrumpyOldMan’s comment instead, it will make you happy), but I suspect the icon changing is an artifact of being on a network that has IPs that vary. (In other words, you might be on the same computer, but your IP address changes, or you might be on different computers, but your IP address changes. I’ve had issues with that at work.) So I’d focus on something other than that. Which, again, you’re all doing a pretty good job with already.
@LBT
Let me start from the beginning. Person says that it’s always ok to strike back. David asks whether thats true, what if its a child? I reply that if the child is big and strong enough (for me that would be starting around 8 or 9), it may be necessary, and less likely to hurt them, to use self-defense. I know that 8 or 9 is the limit, because I spend much time PLAY wrestling and PLAY sparring with my 9 year old daughter, and I know how strong she is v. making a wild guess by looking at her or assuming she’s as strong as a 3 year old. (Note, my daughter is in Karate and begs to play spar with me. SHE IS IN NO WAY BEING HURT). Holy shit.
Yes, I agree, not enough is done to help the poor or the homeless. I know I sound patronizing, but if an addict spends all their money on drugs, then they don’t have money for tampons, underwear, or shampoo anyway. Not only that, but you’ve now knowingly spurred on their addiction, as well.
As they say, first, do no harm. Then you can worry about helping.
I hope I don’t sound patronizing when I say I truly wish you luck. I wish I could help. 🙁 *Hugs*
Could someone get beegee a dictionary? She seems to be having problems with the whole words mean things issue. Also, this?
So the reason not to hit an infant, and that you didn’t do so, is that it wouldn’t do any good? Because I have to say, I can think of lots of other reasons not to hit infants. Have you had your sense of ethics surgically removed?
Also, TIL that shampoo, tampons and so on are things that drug addicts only deserve if they’re good drug addicts and a nice person gives them these things. If attempting to control their behavior by not letting them have any money means that they’re unable to maintain basic hygiene and personal dignity, so what? Better that they bleed through the clothes that they probably don’t have many of and be unable to was their hair than that we risk them buying more drugs.
Please note that this is far more acceptably patronizing than telling men not to hit women, because…well, because smug, I guess.
“to use self-defense”
I’m not sure you understand what that means. Hitting someone in self-defense means hitting is necessary for you to defend yourself from harm. It is not “hitting back”. It is not, my daughter Started It by asking to “play spar” and then smacking her back because she got a good one in.
You like hitting people, fine. Go do it in a dojo where they get to use ‘self defense’ right back. Don’t find excuses to slap your kids around.
I’m not homeless anymore, beegee. (Cash assistance solved that!) But I still think you’re wrong. I think different addicts deal with their addiction in different ways, and you’re painting them all with a one-size-fits-all solution that costs the nation MORE and deprives them of basic necessities, again, encouraging them to turn to crime or survival sex work to get that cash.
Seriously, if an addict is so hooked that they will spend ALL CASH on drugs, nothing for anything else… how is removing the benefits going to stop them from just turning to crime to get that cash? You really think someone that desperate is going to go, “Oh well, can’t get my welfare, I guess I’ll just stop getting drugs now”? That sounds incredibly convenient! Wow, I’ll bet all addicts wish it were that easy!
You’re not offering a solution, beegee, just self-righteous moralizing and “concern.”
And I got what you’re saying. You’ve been repeating it the whole time. My issue isn’t what you’re saying. My issues is that it’s creepy as hell.
I mean sure, I can think of a situation where to save a kid’s life, I might need to hit them. Some really twisted supervillain might decide to be like, “Hit this kid or they die!” But I don’t say that, because THAT’S FUCKING CREEPY and makes it sound like I’m looking for an excuse.
You really do not seem to be getting this. My issue isn’t sparring with a kid who’s studying martial arts. My issue is that you keep doubling down on this and INSISTING I’m just misunderstanding you, when I think I understand you just fine. I don’t think you’d actually hit your kids (I HOPE NOT) but you really are going about this in a fucking creepy way.
@GrumpyOldMan, congratulations to you and your wife.
RE: cassandrakitty
You know what, my roomie’s mom is an addict. She nearly got my roomie killed twice because she thought it’d be just hiLARious to drive while high on Rx drugs. My roomie doesn’t speak to her anymore, big shock. And that’s just one of the high points.
So by all accounts, roomie’s mom is a TERRIBLE person, one of the “bad addicts.” She is also dependant on disability for her survival, because shock, drug addicts can be disabled.
I never want to meet this woman. But I think stripping her of disability and the necessary cash that allows her to survive is really fucking cruel. Yeah, she’s a drug addict and a terrible person. But she needs to wash her hair and brush her teeth like everyone else, and she should be able to.
And by “self-defense” I mean active self-defense, fighting back, not grabbing, or just trying to hold zir back. To repeat, I also do NOT mean the play-sparring that I only mentioned to illustrate how strong she is compared to me. Some of you are only guessing when you assume that you could easily fend a 9 year old child off. If I get my ass kicked when we’re playing around, what would happen if it were for real?
That’s my point.
So yeah, this isn’t some hypothetical thing for me, beegee. This involves people I KNOW and care about. Sure, I’d love it if that miserable old woman got off drugs and stopped manipulating and abusing and hurting everyone around her. But you know what, if losing her kid didn’t do it, and the divorce didn’t do it, and all of her friends dying around her didn’t do it, I really don’t think taking away all her fucking money is going to do it.
They might not end up with any money to spend on “legitimate” expenses…so the solution is to guarantee that they don’t have any money to spend on legitimate expenses?
I’m feeling like whether or not someone is an addict has little bearing on whether or not I think they should starve to death. In other words, I don’t think anyone should starve to death, and if occasionally giving money to people to prevent that leads to someone using more drugs I can live with that. Much more than I can live with people starving to death because we think they’re drug addicts and shouldn’t get any assistance.
And, as usual, other people said that better. Mammotheers are awesome.
Don’t be silly cloudiah! Food stamps covers ALL food needs any person could POSSIBLY have! It’s not like people have dietary restrictions or disabilities that prevent them from cooking! HAHAHAHAHA *headdesk headdesk headdesk*
(Sorry I’m getting so worked up, but GOD I wish those fucking moralizing fucks cared as much about us surviving as they care about our moral character. Fuck them all. Same kind of shit as those snotty middle-class people who look down on me for using my food stamps to buy myself chocolate for my birthday.)
Oh, and furthermore? FURTHERMORE?
That woman I mentioned? My roomie’s mom? Has been an addict ALL roomie’s life, a good thirty fucking years. And guess what, that woman isn’t living in the street. She bought a trailer home, so she obviously has SOME ability to save and use money, even while she’s addicted.
Do you actually know anything about actual addiction, beegee? How the hell did this conversation even START anyway?
Can we get a moratorium on people saying “Of course I care very much about issue X, I’m just against thing Y that is an essential part of dealing with issue X.”
Unless you have already instituted a thing Z that makes thing Y redundant, it’s bullshit and you don’t actually care about issue X.
I’m sorry, LBT, you may only use your food stamps to buy old, moldy carrots for your birthday. Organic old, moldy carrots. Which aren’t covered by your food stamps. Because the fucking system is trying to fucking kill poor people, and you need to just OBEY.
(No, don’t obey, you’re awesome, and I want you to not just survive but to thrive, and hope to build a world in which that is actually possible. Sadly, we’re a ways off. Hang in there.)
Like those “repeal and replace Obamacare” people. You aren’t going to replace it; you don’t actually care about healthcare. Or the “private charity can replace all social services” people. It can’t; you don’t actually care about poverty.
Around here we have the “trap/neuter/release is bad” people, too.
Wait! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
I’m just laughing at the “it’s so patronizing to tell men not to hit women! now, let me tell you why I should be the one to decide whether or not addicts can wash their hair based on whether or not I feel like bestowing shampoo upon them today”.
It’s okay, cloudiah. Sorry, I’m just in a bad mood because some random stranger on the Internet compared me to Andy Blake (serial abuser, manipulator, and cult-maker) because I’m married to hubby, and beegee is a convenient chewtoy.
I bought Oreos at the grocery store this week. And you know what? I AM ENJOYING MY OREOS. Because it’s proof that my ED is under enough control that I can eat a cookie without worrying about my moral worth and deserving. No moldy organic carrots for me, hahaha!
People think trap/neuter/release is bad? Holy fishballs.
*laughs* Nono, it’s not my birthday, cloudiah! That’s in January! (Or March, if you mean system origin date.) I was talking hypothetical stuff! *laughs*
RE: katz
Around here we have the “trap/neuter/release is bad” people, too.
Whaaaaat? Dare I ask? Seriously, if you can’t find owners for all the animals, what solution is there that’s better than trap/neuter/release?
The oreos of recovery taste so much better than regular oreos