Categories
a voice for men advocacy of violence bad boys bears domestic violence evil tiny women evil women excusing abuse internet tough guy irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats oppressed men oppressed white men paul elam reddit violence white dudes comparing themselves to slaves

Paul Elam: "If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back."

Should these books be required reading for MRAs?
Should these books be required reading for MRAs?

Attention tiny ladies! Paul Elam wants you to know that if you attack him, he will totally punch you right back. And not in a satirical way, either. With his actual, non-satirical fists.

A Voice for Men’s maximum leader has long insisted that his notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was nothing more than misunderstood “satire.” That is, when he argued that men who are abused by women would be totally justified if they “beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall,” this was somehow a “Juvenalian” satire of some sort. There’s a famous quote from The Princess Bride that might be appropriate here.

Well, now Mr. Elam has announced to the world that every month is a potential “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” for him. Even if the “Violent Bitch” in question is less than half his size. In a post that he insists is super serious, he writes:

I want to offer a few words on this subject, and this time not in satire. I want to convey as honestly as possible, how I feel on the subject of violence between the sexes, from one man’s point of view.

I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.

Now, Elam does stop short of saying he would “beat the living shit” out of this hypothetical tiny woman, but, you know, in the heat of battle with someone less than half his size, he suggests that he might not be able to control his non-satirical fists:

I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees. Depending on the suddenness of the attack, the level of fear or threat I might feel, the impulse to self-defend in measured amounts is difficult, if not impossible to predict with any accuracy.

So, if there are any tiny ladies out there who might be considering jumping in a pool and then punching Paul Elam, I would suggest you not do that. Of course, I would suggest you not do that even if he weren’t going to hit back, because hitting people is generally a very bad thing.

Don’t worry, dudes – tiny or otherwise – Elam would totally punch you too!

It is the same reaction I would have to a man. No more and no less. The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.

Presumably this would also apply to bears, giant squids, killer robots and anyone or anything else that tried to put its hands or paws or tentacles on him.

Now, if someone less than half my size were to attack me, and the situation weren’t life-threatening, I might, you know, back off and call the police instead. But apparently, this isn’t an option for men, because we’re all slaves, or something:

Most people who frequent this site know that men who call for help from police when being assaulted by female intimate partners are likely to be arrested for their troubles. … [T]here are prosecutors that will happily give the victim a criminal record and make them pay dearly for having been attacked.

This idea is completely insane on its face. Not only that, it is the closest thing we have today to the mentality of slave owners who could flog their slaves because they were property.

Never mind that women, who make up the vast majority of the victims of severe domestic violence, make up 20% of those arrested for DV. Never mind that even where there are mandatory arrest laws in effect, police still need probable or reasonable cause to show that domestic violence occurred – like physical evidence of injuries – before arresting a suspect. Never mind that even in states with “dual arrrest” policies, only about half of all domestic violence calls result in any arrests.

And never mind that if you use disproportionate force against someone less than half your size – as Elam suggests he very well might do – you deserve to go to jail, and for more than a night. “Beating the living shit” out of someone much smaller than you isn’t actually self-defense at all. It’s beating the living shit out of someone much smaller than you.

Now, Elam isn’t the only Men’s Rights Activist who seems to spend a lot of time imagining scenarios in which it would be ok for them to hit women. It’s a subject that comes up on the Men’s Rights subreddit all the time; the misogynistic douchebags who populate Reddit’s Videos subreddit are if anything even worse. And don’t ever do a Google image search for “equal rights equal lefts” unless you want to be really depressed.

The Men’s Rights movement: bravely fighting for the right of men to punch women half their size.

693 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Jack Remiel
10 years ago

What Americans call ‘jumpers’ in NZ would usually be called a pinafore, or if you’re of an older generation, a gymslip.

When I heard the term ‘denim jumper’ I was SO. CONFUSED.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Did anyone call them pop-over dresses? I had quite a few of those as a kid, but I don’t know if that was just Mum’s term for them (fair enough since she made them).

Jack Remiel
10 years ago

@kittehserf The local girls where I grew up has pinafores for their primary school uniform.
http://www.marsden.school.nz/marsden-primary

My sister had one just like that made of red denim and we called it a pinafore.

Anonymouslazycat
Anonymouslazycat
10 years ago

This is a complete non-sequiter (not that that matters much here, to be honest) but check out the hands on the “hands are not for hurting” kid. I don’t think fingers are supposed to bend like that. Mine certainly don’t.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

There are so many photos of me in pinafores as a kid. In most of which I’m scowling furiously, since I didn’t like them.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

I had pinafores as uniforms in three different schools. I loathe them as I associate them with being a school uniform.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Does anyone else get into trouble with their kitties for the most minor of offenses? I ate cantaloupe tonight. Both cats separately paid a visit to check out what I was eating. Both gave me a dirty look and dramatically stalked off upon realizing it was just some gross fruit. Miscatry!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I hated them because they were usually wool, which makes me itch.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

WWTH, absolutely.

Eating fruit is always a huge offence. Fribs is always interested when I have a banana and invariably gets that squished-face areyoutryingtopoisonme look when I let her sniff it.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
10 years ago

@pallygirl: Completely off topic, I really like this jumper. Would like opinions from males on this:
http://www.interweavestore.com/catalog/product/gallery/image/68378/id/118669/

Yeah, that could work. I think anyone in Welly would appreciate it at the moment!

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Darrow also gets upset with me if I dare to eat a can of soup. When I take the can opener out of the drawer he thinks it’s going to be tuna. Dracarys likes soup so she doesn’t mind.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

My first two pinafores were cotton and the last one was wool, worn with a long-sleeved blouse under it. Sundays were iron my uniform day.

I get into trouble with my cats All. The. Time. I get spoken to by chatty cat if I’m ignoring him or one food bowl has the smallest of areas where you can see the bottom of the bowl. Cute baby cat tells me “no mummy” if I do something he doesn’t want me to. He also insists on sniffing whatever I’m eating, normally then wrinkling up his face. The female cat doesn’t have any issues with me ever. Studmuffin doesn’t like me picking dandruff out of his fur. Chatty and cute baby also run from the room when we sneeze. We joke about running away from the cats when they sneeze, but I normally have a cat on my lap when this happens and it would be too mean.

marinerachel
marinerachel
10 years ago

I love kitty sneezes.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I get into trouble with Darrow a lot. His punishments are swift and severe. If I sleep too late he will either bat the alarm clock so it falls on the floor or turn up the volume on the radio so it blares in my ear. He also likes to pull books off the shelf if he wants attention and I don’t provide it.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

One of the aftereffects of my childhood is that, to me, pinafore is the name of a ship and Penzance is where pirates can be found.

As foster/adoptive parents, my husband and I were strictly enjoined from using corporal punishment with our children. Neither of us grew up with it, so that made sense to us. Younger boy finally learned not to hit *me*, which was a great relief. Punishing children by hitting them teaches them a valuable lesson – if you’re big enough, you can get away with it. It seems like a lot of MRAs learned that from somewhere. Pity they stopped learning after that.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’m guessing they learned it from their parents, which brings us right back to why it’s a very bad idea for parents to do that.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I love kitty sneezes.

Me too, except when they spit/snot on you. Then, urgh.

I get in trouble with Mads when her bowl’s not full enough. Not empty, of course – just not full enough. She expects it to be full at all times regardless of whether she wants anything to eat.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Or when they lick your face to clean it, and saliva flicks onto other bits of your face.

katz
10 years ago

I haven’t had time to read the thread yet, but I’ve noticed that even otherwise reasonable people sometimes have a huge blind spot about disproportionate retribution. Like I once had a discussion about X-Men: First Class where everyone else insisted that Magneto was perfectly justified in destroying all those ships because they fired on him, even though he was never in any actual danger from them.

Disproportionate violence is a thing! Someone attacking you doesn’t give you the free license to be as violent as you like in return!

(Here is the scene; major spoilers if you haven’t seen the movie.)

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

I had a cat who LOVED eating cantaloupe.

@kitteh

If you posted an update on Fribs, I missed it. The last I heard, she was at the vet going through a kidney detox. How is she doing?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago
kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

@Auntie Alias, Fribs is doing pretty well, thank you! She came back all nicely detoxxed and is now on the Hill’s kidney diet. Thank goodness she likes the stuff!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

CONFIDENTIAL TO W**DY: You are failing the troll challenge I gave to you very badly.

I knew it! I knew it!

Damn, and nobody took me up on that bet. 🙁

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

LOL @kitteh, it is one damn fine jumper (sweater if you prefer).

What is the US fascination with upper body overclothes and sweat? Sweater, sweatshirt.

1 10 11 12 13 14 28