A new video from Vocativ features a number of young women describing the sexual harassment – from creepy catcalls to actual physical assaults – they and countless other women face on the streets every day; the unsettling video, in which one woman, a former beauty queen, recounts her own sexual assault on the Washington DC metro last year, has been seen more than 2 million times on YouTube in the eight days it’s been up. (I’ve pasted it in at the end of the post.)
Some of these viewers have been Men’s Rights activists, and a lot of them aren’t too happy about it. Not about the street harassment. About the women speaking up against it. Indeed, one new Men’s Rights Redditor by the name of liuetenantwaffleiron was so angered by the video that he sat down and wrote a 700 word rebuttal of sorts – which quickly won him dozens of upvotes from others on the subreddit.
He started off with a story of his heroic efforts to stand up against one of the evil sexy women in the video, and the terrible price he paid for expressing his so brave opinions on the subject on Facebook:
Dear ‘harassed’ in the provocative attire,
I need to say this, and I literally have nowhere else I can say it, so I figured I’d say it here, and to you. I was facebook unfriended today by commenting on the sexual harassment video that’s been going around that you’re in.
Unfriended. The horror!
You were the one who said she likes to “dress provocatively” but that you don’t want to “deal with it,” and who was carrying a hidden camera with her to document all her public ‘harassment’ you get.
This sounds like the worst “missed connections” ad ever.
I simply replied:
“Dresses provocatively; provokes.”
I wasn’t aware of this, but apparently we straight men can’t help but utter the words “baby” or “nice toes, ma,” or “I want to cum on your tits” or “pregnant pussy is the best pussycat” every time we’re “provoked” by a woman in a short skirt or a long skirt or pants and a shapeless sweater wandering into our field of vision.
On top of the instant shit storm that erupted at my insinuation that you ought not to have been surprised at the attention you intentionally attracted, I was subsequently unfriended by the poster, an industry colleague of mine.
Gosh, who would ever imagine that being a dick to a woman who’s getting sexually harassed could possibly cause you any problems in the work world? What an outrage!
On top of the despair I felt at not being able to say more than three words in criticism without fingertips shooting into ear canals, I tried to imagine who those ‘harassing’ men were who called out to you.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you. I was too busy crying, thinking of the terrible “despair” you felt when your dickish and completely unoriginal comment didn’t get you a standing ovation and a tiny little medal.
While a vanishing minority may truly have been confident about their romantic prospects with you, there’s no doubt that most knew that they didn’t stand a chance in hell. Yet, there you sauntered, dressed as sexily as you could, meticulously made up, flaunting that fact; Rubbing it in their faces that they would never have a chance at catching the eye of such a beauty, much less to speak with you, so much less to touch you.
Wait, you’re actually angry that you can’t automatically score a date with – or at least get a chance to grope – every single attractive woman you see? You’re going to have a rough time here on planet earth, dude, as there are literally billions of women out there who will never sleep with you or let you touch them.
Are none of these women allowed to wear clothes that you might find sexy? Or are they obligated to have sex with you if they do?
Would you really rather they dressed as drably as possible, with no makeup? Somehow I suspect that this would make you even madder.
Everything you do is seems to be to attract a man, yet when a man presumes to express that attraction, you’re offended to the core, and you demand that the rest of us be as well.
“Express their attraction?” What video did you watch, anyway? The men in the video I watched were doing a lot more than “expressing their attraction.” The woman you’re so angry at — the one wearing a short skirt and a hidden camera – faced what seemed like an unending series of leers and crude remarks from men as she walked down city streets. The women being interviewed described men “expressing their attraction” by groping and threatening them.
You are one of the most privileged people on Earth, and you dare to complain that some men don’t know their place, and won’t suffer your insults in silence.
Really? Because I watched that same video, and what I saw was a woman in her twenties getting endless harassment from men, some literally twice her size, for the terrible crime of … being an attractive young woman in public. How exactly is this a sign that she’s privileged?
I ask you: Do some men cross a reasonable line of decency? Of course they do. Some masturbate, and grope. Some do worse.
Oh, sure. Men might pull out their dicks, or shove you up against the wall on the subway, or you know, do that thing that starts with the word “r,” but none of this matters as much as the DESPAIR our manifesto writer felt when people on Facebook got annoyed at him for being a dick.
Perhaps its because they’re mentally unstable, or perhaps it’s because they’re so socially marginalized that they have no longer have incentive to behave civilly.
Huh. Apparently in the world of liuetenantwaffleiron — and a lot of other Men’s Rightsers — every guy who ever victimizes a woman has an excuse. They’re mentally ill. They’re “socially marginalized.” It’s never, say, that these guys are, you know, entitled shitheads who think they’re entitled to women’s bodies.
To paraphrase West Side Story, they’re depraved on account of they’re deprived — of a woman’s body, something that doesn’t actually belong to them.
In the cases illustrated in the video, I’m certain that there was no possibility of any of them having any sort of equal relationship with you, or to the other women featured, and you know it.
Really? Even if this were true, so fucking what? You’re not entitled to have a relationship — equal or otherwise — with any woman who strikes your fancy. You’re not entitled to harass every woman you see who’s out of your league, or already hitched, or just not interested in your asshole “nice guy” self.
In the absence of incentive to try to win your favor and to respect you, and in the presence of your garish flaunting to them of your unavailable sexuality, I have no doubt that some even grow to resent you.
Yeah, we picked up on that already, genius. As did every woman in the video, who saw clearly that the actions of the men who harassed them weren’t driven simply by attraction but by resentment and rage and a desire to demonstrate power over women they knew weren’t interested in them.
Whoever these predatory males are, they’re not me. I don’t know them. I don’t know where I can find them.
Really? Because you sound pretty much exactly like “these predatory males.” Maybe you haven’t harassed any women – yet – but your little manifesto is filled with the same toxic mixture of aggrieved entitlement that helps to fuel this kind of harassment.
I doubt they’re reading these words, or watching your videos. I’m terribly sorry they cross the line into physical contact, and stalking, and god knows what else, but we’re NOT those guys.
I hate to tell you this dude, but you’re already thinking like a harasser. I mean, you’re writing a 700-word manifesto attacking a woman you’ve never met because she had the temerity to walk down the street in a short skirt and record the harassment she got.
Yes, dressing sexily is absolutely your right, as is walking in that “provocative” outfit down the street while expecting a certain degree of civility from your countrymen. However …
Somehow I knew that “however” was coming.
However – know that your message to us is powerless to change the behavior of the ‘creeps’ that will physically harass you, and assault you, and worse.
Really? Then why are you getting so mad about the video? Somehow I suspect that you realize this sort of video does give harassed women a certain degree of power, both by shaming those men who might not realize how terrible their behavior really is, and by helping encourage and empower women to hollaback, as they say, at their harassers.
Your insistence to wear what you wear, and act as you act – while absolutely within your rights – undeniably makes you a more visible target to those perverts and predators.
And an even more visible target to the creepy entitled assholes of the Men’s Rights subreddit, apparently.
You are determined to ignore one of the most important factors in avoiding harassment and assault because you have the gall to be offended that lower-status males might dare to approach you.
And you, dude, have the gall to be offended by a woman talking frankly about the harassment she gets.
Furthermore, your constant antagonism of their attraction to you gives them reason to resent you.
No, I’m pretty sure you’re responsible for your own resentment here, given that it stems from an unacknowledged sense of entitlement.
These two factors expose you to risk that you simply don’t need to take, and I refuse to feel any guilt for your misadventures so long as you act with such a sense of entitlement and such a complete lack of common sense.
Well, forgive me for feeling no sorrow if no woman ever wants anything to do with your whiny, resentful, bitter ass.
ps- First time posting. Happy to be here
You’ll fit right in. Your sense of aggrieved entitlement is already pretty well-developed.
That, and access to the internet, is really all you need to be a Men’s Rights Activist.
Here’s the video. TRIGGER WARNING for detailed description of sexual assault:
I think we’re due for a palette cleanser, by the way.
Here’s an oppressive butt
@WWTH Technically speaking, I believe that you could consider the Irish having been systematically oppressed in the past, and they’re white as white can be. Of course, they were being oppressed by other white people. *shrugs*
I never got the reasoning behind the whole “You’re saying that men harass women! You can’t say that! Not ALL men harass women!” Are they not familiar with the concept of using a general noun to apply to an unspecified size of subset of that category? If I said “Cake is delicious” would they argue with me about how not all cake is delicious and sometimes people add too much salt or burn it and what about urinal cakes too do you think those are delicious too, you deviant? What pedantic assholes.
(Of course, their goal isn’t to be grammatical asses about everything but to instead derail discussion about important matters and whine about how their feelings are hurt, so this explains the gap in logic.)
Also, the writer of the original post/letter is a real dickhead if he thinks that he should be given incentive to respect the basic human rights of women. No, you’re supposed to respect people, period. And yes, women count as people.
But if I don’t, Katie won’t have her share and I will face Cat Anger Consequences! D:
BritterSweet: this is correct. Corgi butts are the most oppressive evah.
::watches video again::
@Catalpa: I’ve tried finding a mathematical (i.e. set theory) definition of the word some, but can’t locate it. If
n=the number of males harassing and
N=the total number of males
then I think some is accurate so long as n>0 and n<N. I did think that set theory allowed the case of n=N to be included in "some" (but normally in speech one would say "all" in this specific case), but I can't find a maths reference.
So given that "no men" and "all men" refer only to n=0 and n=N respectively, there is an enormous amount of idiocy involved in people who say that
"men harass women" == "all men harass women"
in fact, one would have to follow through the "logic" to end up with:
"men harass women" == "all men harass all women"
because if you're not limiting the proportion of men in the statement, then you can't limit the number of women either – consistency and all.
/sighs
On the subject “how can possibly a harasser think that he’s paying a compliment to a woman? doesn’t he see he’s making her uncomfortable?”. I once managed to make a man understand what it feels like for a woman to be harassed by strangers in the street by making the following analogy (which is vastly flawed, but it worked).
In tourist cities there are A LOT of people who try to sell nick-nacks to the tourists, and sometime they become quite insistent (and very, very rarely aggressive). It as anyway annoying because you go out with your friends, you’re sitting at a bar, and it’s an endless procession of people trying to sell you stuff, to the point it becomes hard to carry on a conversation.
Please don’t start saying that the analogy makes no sense because these poor people are just trying to make a living, I perfectly know that, the analogy was not between the harassers and the sellers, was between what you feel when you’re at the receiving end. The point is that this analogy, as stupid as it is, was actually an eye-opener for this guy, he was all like “but.. you mean it is THAT annoying to women??” and I proceed to explain that it was that annoying only when it wasn’t extremely vulgar, or aggressive, in which case it became also very frightening, in addition to annoying.
He was absolutely appalled that an “innocent” (i.e. not particularly vulgar or intimidating) comment could be perceived as such an invasion of personal space. He could relate to the feeling of “invasion” that he felt when so many sellers were trying to sell him stuff, and confessed he never, ever thought women would feel the same when “complimented” or “propositioned” in the street.
I tried to make him think about what that meant on his beliefs on women, that it meant that, in his mind, women are not real human beings who are going their own way and doing their own stuff, and no, don’t want to be bothered continuously. I hope he got it.
Now, this particular guy had never harassed a woman in his life, I’m pretty sure, but he was in the category of “it’s just a compliment, it’s not that big a deal”. So, yes, it’s true, it’s “not all men” who harass. But we need at least to make the other ones understand that IT IS A BIG DEAL, and videos like this one I hope can help.
Maybe it would be good to try to find analogies, ideas, I don’t know what, that men themselves find annoying and an invasion of personal space, because the fact is that many men have a very very hard time identifying with women, so they see this video and they identify with the men, and try to understand *their* behaviour, even if they themselves are not harassers, instead of understanding how uncomfortable it is for the women.
I believe that women are harassed on the street. I believe it happens a lot. I can only imagine how upsetting it must be.
Because I have a guilty secret.
I am her.
I am the female, long thought mythical, to whom the MRAs can point in triumph.
My name is Gilshalos, and I have never been harassed or catcalled.
*buries her face in her hands*
@ gilshalos…I’m sure this oversight has now been noted and will be corrected…but must it be street harassment?
Surely there must be a man where you work, in your neighborhood, or where you engage in recreation willing to step up to the harassment plate?
Look, as sunshinemary nicely pointed out, it’s a subset of men. I’m so, so sorry gilshalos. I just don’t have the time required to get to you this millenia. I’m only at B so far.
Setting up a fake construction site, waiting three hours, then shoutibg loudly at people just takes so long. There’s so little white het cis male me, so much vast world to clumsily insult.
Fibinachi:
Do you plan to film a snickers commercial while you’re at it?
@Tessa: yeah, the snickers ad came to mind for me as well.
I’m more of a Mars person, really.
What’s the snickers reference?
The ending ruins what could have been a good concept:
Being yelled at like that would make me just as uncomfortable as them saying sexist things. They are still startling those women, making them tense up in anticipation of something unpleasant and forcing the women to pay attention to them when it’s obvious they’d rather be minding their own business.
And yeah, the ending is really the cherry on top.
::springs out of the Corner of Grief::
I haz success! Katiekins is on the Confused Cats tumblr!
::bounces around doing fistpumps::
I got the most sexual harassment when I did bar work: seedy men hitting on me because they know I have to be polite, men grabbing my hand, grabbing me by the waist, grabbing my neck and pulling me close to say something, and that one guy who kept coming to the bar and staring at me because I felt sorry for him once and had a conversation with him where he told me all about his nervous breakdown and how well he’s doing financially and about the woman he was dating who ‘freaked out’ and wouldn’t let him see her teenage daughter anymore.
In my worst stages of poverty I’d just let them do it, smile politely, and hope they gave me enough tips so that I could afford groceries that week.
I’ve had more fun cleaning up cat shit than I did dealing with those assholes.
But then there were also a lot of the guys that were decent enough human beings, or the old men who were daytime regulars that just flirted without any expectation of possession. They just did it because they were old Irishmen and old Irishmen flirt with everything female.
I hate any flirting directed at me, and that’s one of the things about it that makes my skin crawl – it’s meaningless, it’s nothing whatsoever about me as a person. It’s just seeing a womanthing and flirting’s what you do with them, reflexively.
Ugh. I worked at a coffee shop while I was in college and dealt with a good number of creeps who were ecstatic to have a captive audience. I can’t imagine adding alcohol into the mix.
Woody, you’re boring. I’m putting you on moderation, and won’t post anything of yours until you put the word “splorkle” in a comment to show that you’re at least reading the comments in the threads you post in. Then I’ll need you to make 5 comments that are relevant to a current discussion that aren’t knee-jerk defenses of AVFM.
dat corgi.
Oh, and speaking of strangely twerking animals, there was a bug in the animation for the Wildstar MMO which resulted in some of the taxi animals moving like this for the first 2 months of the game:
Enjoy!
Is that Snickers commercial on TV and actually well-known in Australia? Ugh.
leftwingfox, those critters look just rude. 😀
Yay for a troll challenge! Bet Woody won’t be able to cope with it.
It actually took me a couple of years to realize/face up to the frequency of sexual assaults I experienced in college–probably because I was attacked in my home. After stepping back awhile, I started to count how many times I had been groped. I denied this partly because they didn’t seem important, and partly because I’m fat and I didn’t think people would believe me. I was also kind of ashamed at my naive response to them. As a feminist, I expected myself to be tough and gritty, and maybe even violent towards them.
So now I think back to instances of street harassment. I think they had a sort of different, angrier tone to them. Not worse, but different. Basically, I heard a lot of “You’re a fat bitch,” and a lot of barnyard sounds. I also got all of the other catcalls one would expect an attractive woman to receive. “Hey baby, sit on my face.” “I want to eat your pussy.” I don’t think they felt any better than one of the worst ones I got: “You fat hippo, I want to cut that fat off you.”
Yes, I yelled back. But it didn’t feel better. I just steamed over what I should have said, just like I stewed over “what I should have done” to the gropers. The gropers scared me too much. Even after all those years, I still felt responsible.
@alleee, That sounds awful, I’m so sorry that happened. Hugs if they’re wanted.
I was going to post about having been on the receiving end of what I’ll call male-directed harassment (by people who took me for straight), female-directed harassment (by people who took me for a woman) and gay-directed harassment, and the differences between them, but worried about annoying Ally by inadvertently using an outdated or incorrect term, only I must say I’m a bit put out that, even in the context used, “N_ H_M_” flies here. Yes, the comment mocks Mr Elam and a follower, but I really don’t like f**-shaming to do it, even if it’s the kind with multiple layers when the last layer proves that it’s essentially a pro-gay statement.
@strivingally – I looked at some the comic to which you linked and was uncertain; the author means well, but seems better on gender than sexuality. Does it require a relatively thick-skinned readership?
When I was 13, I went to London with my mum for a show and dared to wear a pair of black shorts with tights, and a hoodie. A man on the underground rubbed his erection against me and then muttered something in Russian in my ear before running off. Scary. Then, mum and I went for a pub dinner and a bloke was hiding behind a pillar watching me. When my mum went to the loo, or to pay, he would start creeping forward. I was a cross between scared and amused because who does that? The hotel we were in had a mirror on the stairs and I remember looking at myself as we came back, trying to rationalise the sudden upsurge in sexual predation. I thought it must be that I’d taken a bit of a stretch and had newly long legs, since the rest of my body was covered in a hoodie. Like, I was looking at my body thinking “what is it about me that is causing this?”
Some time later I was walking home from a friends in the mid-evening holding a box of pakora and a can of Irn Bru. I walked past one of the local pubs and three guys who were out smoking moved to stop me walking past, and asked for a gangbang. I sputtered and ducked round them and as I basically ran away one shouted “I bet I could shove that can right up your arse.”
On my first night out I got talking to an amateur comedian about the woes of being famous (he isn’t famous, though he did win a Scottish comedy award in 2011), I was just humouring him but then he started trying it on so I tried to back off. That’s when he turned into Octopus Man and when I pulled his hands off me and out of my clothes he whispered in my ear “we could have been great, but now I’m going to be your worst nightmare.” I had to spin him round and disappear into the crowd while he was disoriented…
Female privilege for the win.