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antifeminism confused cats against feminism

In which I get an email from Women Against Feminism [CORRECTION: THE EMAIL WAS FROM A COPYCAT SITE]

Type type type
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CORRECTION: THIS NOTE WAS NOT FROM THE OFFICIAL “WOMEN AGAINST FEMINISM” PAGE; IT WAS FROM A COPYCAT SITE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO IGNORE IT OR AT LEAST TO LAUGH AT IT FOR THE CORRECT REASON. SORRY!

Just posted this on Confused Cats Against Feminism, but it was too good not to post here as well:

So I just got this curiously impersonal email from the admin at Women Against Feminism. (Gosh! Could it be a form letter?)

Hi David Futrelle,

I wanted to say thanks for writing the article about Women Against Feminism.

Whilst it’s clear that we don’t agree on all points, hearing both sides of the argument will get more people thinking about what they believe in and which set of points they feel aligned with more closely.

This can only be a positive step forward, not only for women, but for society as a whole.

To help get more people thinking about what they really believe, I was wondering if you could make add a link to our new website in your article?

We’re trying to create a centrally located hub where the discussion about Women and Feminism can flourish, with everyone getting a chance to share their opinions, and we believe that a website is the best place to do it.

Would you be able to help facilitate that conversation by adding a link to the site?

The URL is http://womenagainstfeminism.com

Once again, thanks for furthering the discussion about women and feminism through your article. Even though we don’t agree on all the same points, we really appreciate getting these concepts heard and empowering people to make up their own mind.

Many thanks,

[name and email redacted]

So I wrote back:

There already is a central hub for this discussion: http://confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/

Could you redirect all of your traffic there? Thanks!

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freemage
freemage
7 years ago

I love it when they can’t stick the flounce. No, Cardowen, you’ve not won any particular awards for argumentation and debate. Please feel free to fuck right off.

(PS: There are currently over 250 million adults in the US alone. This means that you failed to get 1 percent of 1 percent of the population to support your quaint little crusade–and that’s assuming that all of those supporters are legit supporters [as opposed to sign-for-hire workers] AND are all from the US. If your support is coming from a more global perspective, then you’re an even more minor statistical blip. Congrats on your utter irrelevance and impotence.)

Abacus Toms
Abacus Toms
7 years ago

Are you guys aware of this?

https://twitter.com/ToriHuit/status/494655439498657792

JB is going to “debate” a youtube teenager on feminism tonight. It involves The Amazing Atheist.

A wolverine
A wolverine
7 years ago

@abacus toms
makes me wonder if she doesnt know about TAA or JBs history.

because if it were me i’d tell em to piss up a rope, they cant follow the rules of a formal debate, debating them gives their side far too much credit and it is Incredibly likely that MRA “activism” will target her afterwards

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Cardowen:

Do you care that 17k people are so afraid of feminism that they are publicly denouncing it?

Nope. Any other stupid questions you want to ask?

Abacus Toms
Abacus Toms
7 years ago

@A wolverine

Several people warned her about TAA in the comments of her youtube channel. However, I doubt she knows much about the MRA or AVFM. TAA promised her an informal discussion. I didn’t know who she was going to be up against until just now. I don’t think she knows what she is walking into.

Awesomerants has a tumblr. Should I create a tumblr to msg her? I am new to this stuff myself. Is there a particular post here I should send her?

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Do you care that 17k people are so afraid of feminism that they are publicly denouncing it?

Feeling safe enough to publicly denounce something suggests there is little, actual fear.

Logic is not your strong point, but we knew that already.

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

Feminism is, at its core, to guarantee basic, inherent human rights to all people, including women. And it is in the nature of basic rights that they are not up for a majority vote. Even in a fair vote, the majority does not get to take away my rights. Why should they get to take away women’s rights? So numbers really don’t matter here.

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

*is at its core a *struggle* to guarantee…

(damnit!)

Abacus Toms
Abacus Toms
7 years ago

I got a friend to privately message Awesomerants on tumblr. However, it might be too late. I am genuinely concerned about this girl. I suppose all I can do is pray.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Carodwen Nightwillow,
Two things.
1. Stick the flounce. You won’t be missed.
2. I can’t read your name without thinking of “Obsidian Blackbird McNight”:

I just keep thinking of Howard saying, “I did a shit on it” and snickering.
Thanks for that.

I must now turn my back on you.

damselindetech
7 years ago

This is why I don’t bother giving a shit about feminists groups. you only care about one another you give no actual shits about anyone else. I have learned all I need to know. Enjoy your ideology. and know that when it fails its women like you that caused it.

What?! Look what your Tumblr kittehs hath wrought, David! I was just about to go to a boardroom meeting when I got sucked in to your devious mindgames, and now I’ve missed the meeting, am off the board, my bills aren’t going to bed passed and all because of you. Yoooouuuuu and your adorable kittens with amusing and befuddling messages.

I. Hope. You’re. Happy.

That’s it. I’m going to join a site that REALLY respects women. Like AVFM. Whores.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Are we supposed to be chastened because 17000 people don’t like feminism? There is probably nothing in this world that doesn’t have that many people opposed to. There are probably that many people who don’t like puppies. Who cares?

cloudiah
7 years ago

Content note for general fuck-up-edness:

JudgyBitch just said that trans and non-binary people are sick and need medical treatment.

cloudiah
7 years ago

This is on that video “debate” someone posted up thread.

cloudiah
7 years ago

She seemed to just blame feminism for trans and non-binary folks too.

The young woman debating her seems kind of flabbergasted by her.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Also, she acknowledges women are hurt more by IPV than men, but it’s because women are stupid and should expect to be hit back when they provoke men.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Mainstream feminists are cunts, bitches, and witches stirring a cauldron.

(Is this live commentary annoying? Let me know.)

cloudiah
7 years ago

TAA just compared “Teach men not to rape” to “Teach black people not to steal.”

cloudiah
7 years ago

Asking about consent is treating women like children. Or kittens.

Abacus Toms
Abacus Toms
7 years ago

@cloudiah. I appreciate the commentary. I stopped watching after the ignorant transphobic comments. I’ve been burnt out on internet bs as of late.

cloudiah
7 years ago

TAA most communication is non-verbal, so asking for verbal consent is stupid.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

I appreciate the commentary too. I do not want to watch through what you’re watching.

cloudiah
7 years ago

JB: If I invite you to my house, and I ask you to sit at my table, and I put a plate of food in front of you, that doesn’t mean I’ve consented to feed you. [Making fun of consent again.]

if you went to their room and made out with someone, it’s reasonable for them to assume you want to have sex.

cloudiah
7 years ago

TAA: We can’t protect people from being taken advantage of.

steampunked (@steampunked)

I can’t read Carodwen’s comments without a cringe because her name is SO CLOSE to my RL name – both of them.

Though it gives me some joy – my first name is a realllly badly mispelled version of ‘Cerridwen’, but I’m glad to see that someone else got suckered with a worse one.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Now they’re pretending consent requires a written contract, and it has to happen at ever step, even just to sit next to you. According to TAA.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Okay, all of cloudiah’s summaries are making me go WTF, and how wonderful to see that racism got included after trans- and non-binary bigotry. At least the faces of anti-feminism are showing the level of actual bigotry they hold, instead of trying to hide it.

Shit analogy: JB: If I invite you to my house, and I ask you to sit at my table, and I put a plate of food in front of you, that doesn’t mean I’ve consented to feed you.

The actual analogy is that if you invite me to your house, and you ask me to sit at your table, and you put a plate of food in front of me, that doesn’t mean I’ve consented to eat your food.

cloudiah
7 years ago

JB: In a relationship, consent is assumed.

cloudiah
7 years ago

JB: Consent ruins the mood, it’s a boner-killer.

cloudiah
7 years ago

SARKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESIAN is now being discussed.

cloudiah
7 years ago

TAA on SARKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESIAN: Claims she has impossible to meet standards. Pop culture criticism can be construed in any way anyone wants, to fit any ideology. Therefore pop culture criticism is bad.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

MRAs: those of you who have been sexually assaulted by a partner, who otherwise were not thrown under the bus by the AVfM spokesperson (i.e. because you’re a cishet white male), you’ve now been thrown under the bus by the AVfM spokesperson. Greatest human rights movement of the 21st century /pukes

cloudiah
7 years ago

Young feminist (Tory?): Culture is reflected in pop culture.

JB: SARKEEEEEEEEEEEESIAN is a hypocrite. Women who wear short shorts at school say “Don’t sexualize me” but a video character wearing short shorts “Oh you just sexualized her.”Anita is also a liar and a thief.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I’ve got to run. This is boring.

Abacus Toms
Abacus Toms
7 years ago

JB: In a relationship, consent is assumed.

Holy shit. I can just imagine Awesomerants’ face rn. I bet she wasn’t expecting to be hit in the face with this after being away from youtube atheism for so long.

Fnoicby
Fnoicby
7 years ago

Tori did ok and made some good points. I think she may have been falling for the “oh you’re so nice, so not like those other mean girl harpy feminists” thing a bit. She failed to catch JB out on some blatant inaccuracies, such as the fabricated statistics stating men suffer 50% of domestic violence. She didn’t catch JB claiming that men have less rights than women because there are so many more homeless men, and then turning around <15 seconds later and stating these are class issues with no relation to gender. Overall the girl seemed a bit naive and unfamiliar with The usual MRA talking points.

Slats Lifter
Slats Lifter
7 years ago

Yeah right, Women Against Feminism is a sure sign that feminism is in deep trouble. Yeah, right. There are just over 15 million women between the ages of 18-24 in the U.S., and 17k likes is just over .1 percent…..so dream on, MRAs.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“JudgyBitch just said that trans and non-binary people are sick and need medical treatment.”

*sigh* should I be glad we got remembered, or upset that that only happens when someone is being a transphobic asshole?

I preferred NWO’s “zie creatures”…calling me something that sounds like it belongs in water is not an insult (to me personally, because FISHHHHHHH!!!)

I also don’t know if I need more or less coffee, I feel like Bender — does he need more or less booze? (The were-car episode)

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Concern trolls are by far the most annoying brand of troll out there.

Especially when they also can’t spell, punctuate, or formulate a coherent argument, and are only out for a “gotcha” to confirm their existing prejudices. What a charmer.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

So, I just looked at the AVforM article that I guess earlier said JB was the director of WAF? It just says she’s a “social media driver” of it now.

chronic lurker
chronic lurker
7 years ago

@grumpycatisagirl Meaning they’ve only changed it in the last hour…

tooimpurenangel
7 years ago

It was a copycat. *snickers*

saphy
saphy
7 years ago

Yes, tooimpurenangel, your victory is great and your enemy lies broken and defeated before you. Alas, we ask only for your mercy in this, our darkest and most piteous hour, for although we are all David, we are yet but mortal and afraid.

Have mercy on us, oh mighty victor.

brooked
7 years ago

This may be my insomnia talking but I’d argue Carodwen is an above-average troll in terms of WTFery entertainment. The “keep politics out of the fight for equal rights” is uniquely wrong, but the overall barrage of questions is pretty magical? So I ask.

I thought all women were supposed to be equal? Is feminism about equality or is it about politics? Because I was under the impression I was fighting for total gender equality not idiots that divide people based on politics? I am not interested in political labels and choosing jackasses or elephants. I am interested in equality? Actual equality and not based on gender. Human. No more no less? So I ask.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Dear gods, JB as “social media driver”! Awaits multiple tweets about wh0res with trepidation.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

Saphy, I hate to harsh such wonderful snark, but tooimpureangel is one of the David-ferrets and was probably just making a cat-related joke. It was pretty ambiguously worded, though.

Ally S
7 years ago

@cloudiah

JudgyBitch just said that trans and non-binary people are sick and need medical treatment.

She seemed to just blame feminism for trans and non-binary folks too.

While this is appalling, it’s also highly amusing in the same way that TERFs are amusing: any understanding of gender that doesn’t involve deconstructing and dismantling the gender binary and the concept of biological sex is completely orthogonal to any initiative focused on reducing gender oppression. It’s like trying to advocate for racial equality while stressing the importance of biological race and “racial purity”.

Also, funny how feminism helped me get over enough of my self-loathing to realize I was a woman! Evil feminism is turning all the “men” into women.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Yeah, I don’t really see how feminism can possibly be divorced from politics. It is political. I know it’s fashionable to hate politics though. It’s just an easy and lazy insult to call someone or something the p word.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
7 years ago

Re: taking politics out

I fucking hate this bullshit idea. Everything is politics. Every. Fucking. Thing. If it has even the tiniest bit of relevance to the rest of the world it’s political.

Just because someone refuses to see it doesn’t make it not true. Shit, even “take politics out of X” is a political statement.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

I know there’s a ton of awful, awful shit in that video, but this line reported by cloudiah jumped out at me:

cloudiah | July 31, 2014 at 8:10 pm

JB: Consent ruins the mood, it’s a boner-killer.

This is serious WTF’ery. I cannot think of a single time when, having been fortunate enough to have a woman I was attracted to say she wanted to have sex with me, I immediately suffered erectile dysfunction. In fact, I think I can safely say that it’s always been a turn-on to have something along the lines of, “Oh, yes!” or “Let’s go for it!” or any other sign of affirmation from my partner.

Also, of course, they ignore that what’s required is explicit consent, not necessarily verbal consent. Non-verbal communication can be used for consent, and taken as such, so long as its unambiguous. It doesn’t surprise me that TAA doesn’t get that.