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atheism minus patronizing as heck pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles playing the victim richard dawkins

Richard Dawkins opens mouth, inserts foot, mumbles something about "mild pedophilia" again

A young Richard Dawkins contemplates the beauty of the universe.
A young Richard Dawkins contemplates the beauty of the universe.

Apparently Richard Dawkins was worried that people might have forgotten what an asshat he is. So, helpful fellow that he is, he decided to give us all a demonstration of why he’s one of the atheist movement’s biggest liabilities, a “humanist” who has trouble remembering to act human.

Earlier today Dawkins decided, for some reason, that he needed to remind the people of the world of a fairly basic point of logic, and so he took to Twitter and thumbed out this little thought:

 Richard Dawkins @RichardDawkins  ·  5h  X is bad. Y is worse. If you think that's an endorsement of X, go away and don't come back until you've learned how to think logically.

However petulantly phrased this is, the basic logic is sound: If I say that Hitler was worse than Stalin, I’m not endorsing either Hitler or Stalin. Unless I add “and Stalin was totally awesome and I endorse him” at the end.

The trouble is that Dawkins didn’t stop with this one tweet. He decided to illustrate his point with some examples. Some really terrible examples.

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins 5h      Mild pedophilia is bad. Violent pedophilia is worse. If you think that's an endorsement of mild pedophilia, go away and learn how to think.     Details         Reply         189 Retweet         287 Favorite  Richard DawkinsVerified account ‏@RichardDawkins  Date rape is bad. Stranger rape at knifepoint is worse. If you think that's an endorsement of date rape, go away and learn how to think.Yep, that’s right. He decided to do what comedians call a “callback” to some terrible comments he made last year about what he perversely described as “mild pedophilia.” And then he added asshattery to asshattery by suggesting a similar distinction between “date rape” and “stranger rape.”

Anyone seeing these comments as insensitive twaddle designed to minimize both “mild” pedophilia and date rape has good reason to do so. As you may recall, in the earlier controversy about so-called “mild” pedophilia, Dawkins told an interviewer for the Times magazine that

I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today.

He went on to tell the interviewer that when he was a child one of his school masters had “pulled me on his knee and put his hand inside my shorts.” But, he added, he didn’t think that this sort of “mild touching up” had done him, or any of the classmates also victimized by the teacher, any “lasting harm.”

Huh. If Dawkins says that a teacher groping him was no big deal, I guess this kind of “mild” abuse shouldn’t be a big deal for anyone else, either, huh?

I’m pretty sure there’s some sort of logical fallacy here.

Given his history of minimizing these “mild” sexual crimes, it’s not a surprise that his crass tweets today inspired a bit of a twitterstorm.

Dawkins has responded with his typical petulance, and has stubbornly defended his comments as an exercise in pure logic that his critics are too irrational to understand.

If you take a few moments to go through his timeline you’ll find many more tweets and retweets reiterating this “argument.” Dawkins is not the sort of person to admit to mistakes. Indeed, he so regularly puts his foot in his mouth it’s hard not to conclude that he must like the taste of shoe leather.

But these recurring controversies can’t be doing much for his reputation. Indeed, they seem to cause more and more people to wonder why anyone takes Dawkins seriously on any subject other than biology. Even his critics on Twitter are growing a bit weary.

https://twitter.com/endorathewitch/status/494071064008597504

Seems like it. I’m beginning to wonder why any atheists — at least those who are not also asshats — continue to think of Dawkins as an ally of any kind.

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kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

cassandra – got it!

GrumpyOldNurse
GrumpyOldNurse
6 years ago

Dear kittehserf,

I would like to please nominate Adam Beach for the role of Hagrid. Also, the new unit assist on my ward (but you don’t know him, so nevermind).

Yours, in all sleep deprived giddiness,
GrumpyOldNurse

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Niters, GrumpyOldNurse!

Yeah, that’s high maintenance hair. Facial-hair owners, would that be achievable with an electric razor of the time, or would he have had to use a wossname not electric one?

Puts me in mind of the 90 minutes Louis XIV used to put into dressing and doing his hair. Thirty minutes of that was just spent waxing his minimal moustache.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

As a kid I used to find my dad’s fussing over his stache so funny. He had tiny little scissors that he would carry around for emergency trimming.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

pallygirl, LOL! He could get rid of a whole lot of sprouts that way.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Hmm, I’m nominating Roger Allam as Hagrid. He’s not obviously hot but he is very easy on the eye.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

It shouldn’t be too hard, it’s more genetics than anything else. All he has to do is shave below that point, he doesn’t even need to trim. One of the easiest ways to do it is to grow out your beard to the desired thickness and then go to a barber’s and ask them to even out your sideburns to the same thickness and you can even ask them to shape it if you want. Maintenance isn’t too bad because it’s a relatively simple shape, and the thicker the beard, the less precise you have to be.

Yes, I’ve been known to do a lot of things with my facial hair, what gave it away 😛

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I don’t think I actually know any men with facial hair that’s naturally thick enough to pull that kind of thing off without it looking wispy and odd.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Nice to hear from an expert! 😀

Bloke I used to see on the train must have had fast-growing facial hair, because I’ve never seen anyone change the style so often or so fast. Beard, sideburns, moustache, clean-shaven, combination, and they always looked well grown in.

brooked
6 years ago

I have to confront some of the statements made here. I mean, this isn’t a “theist/agnostic” blogs, so I think atheist rebuttals should be in order.

Lucky for us blogs aren’t limited to ones that are “theist/agnostic” and ones that are rift with pedantic bores regurgitating New Atheism 101 despite the palpable lack of interest of every poster not named Octo. Dawkins is a turd bucket who knows mocking “rape hysteria” will fill the kiddie pool where his most brainless super fans hang with meaty anti-feminist chum.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Worst wispy facial hair nomination would have to go to archaeologist Phil Harding. Those sideburns, argh.

This picture also shows why he should always, always keep his hat on.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

So the really frizzy bits are beard, or..? I am confused by this person’s hair.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ brooked

I’m also not sure why “theist” and “agnostic” would be grouped together, unless the group is “people who I get to sneer at, yay”.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

While I’ve seen pics/videos of the rare White/Brown man who can pull it off, the vast, vast majority of men I’ve seen that really pulled off that look were Black men. I think it’s because of the texture of their hair. I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that it was originally an African American fashion.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Thinking of both my dad (white) and Mr C (Asian), I don’t think that in either case their facial hair grows high enough up on the cheek for that look to work. They’d end up with a line halfway between the cheekbone and the jaw, which would just look silly.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Yep, the really frizzy bits are sideburns/beard. They used to be properly ginger.

This is him with Mick Aston on Time Team’s early days, about twenty years back (you really don’t want to see what Tony Robinson was doing with his hair then).
comment image

This is Phil more recently:http://www.insidewiltshire.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/alice04.jpg

He really does have alarmingly neglected hair.

I remember a line from one TT ep that would be most appropriate to Dawkins: Phil was winding up Mick, and said, “Just cos you’re a professor doesn’t mean you know everything.” (Imagine this in perfect West Country pirate accent.)

brooked
6 years ago

SMARTIES FOREVER

Minstrels leave both Smarties and all types of M&Ms in a burning heap of inferiority, it’s outrageous how British people get all the good candy. If there was a just God I would be eating a bag of Minstrels right now instead of typing these sad words. So nope on the just God thing.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Is he a nice man? If so I feel like maybe we should perform an intervention involving conditioner.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Maltesers are also vastly superior to the American version.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Shadow, that’s the impression I have with that style, too – I know nothing of its origins but yes, you’d need that hair texture to do it at all well.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

Yeah, my anecdotal experience has been that it’s mainly black men that have that horizontalish beard line. Mine is this weird sort of trapezium. It starts off sloping down and then halfway there it drops in a sort of precipice. It’s the kind of beard line that you see movie characters rolling down and then dropping off into an ocean

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I did know one white guy who could probably have pulled that off. He didn’t really have any space between his neckbeard and his chest hair, and the hair was very thick, and iirc the beard line ended not far below his cheekbones. With wispy hair it would be too much like the billy goats gruff thing you get when men with not much facial hair attempt a goatee.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

declarative statements detected;
activateDawkinsBot;
println(“the kind of beard line that you see movie characters rolling down and then dropping off into an ocean is one type of beard line”);
println(“Maltesers are also vastly superior to the American version”);
println(“If you think that’s an endorsement of beard lines, go away and don’t come back until you’ve learned how to think logically.”)
deactivateDawkinsBot;

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I only know him from what I’ve seen on telly, so I can’t really say. One thing in his favour, I know he’s involved with Operation Nightingale, which helps rehabilitate veterans through involvement with archaeology. The vet who founded it got through his depression watching TT, and when asked what was so appealing about it, cracked “Phil Harding in those hot pants.”

I have long felt that Phil should be introduced to a bucket of conditioner.

This chap isn’t doing the super-fine cut, but he’s rocking some splendid sideburns. Can’t stand most of Ingres’ female portraits, but he did some niiiice male studies.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

oh noes, I missed a semi-colon, it won’t compile.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Maltesers … Crunchie bars … VIOLET CRUMBLE …

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

All this complicated facial hair is so far outside my experience. With Mr C it’s either “has facial hair” or “has shaved” – no shaping involved.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Mr K liked changing his quite often, his haircut too (he did not wear wigs as some nitwits claim). Shorter and curlier, longer and less curly, more beard, less beard, more ‘tache, less ‘tache.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

hellkell, Smarties are just hard-coated milk chocolate. They’ve been here much longer than M&Ms.

And Jaffas even longer than that in Australia. Of course, you have to be as old as me to remember the pure glee aroused when someone sort of accidentally on purpose dropped a handful of these hard round bouncy things on the sloping wooden floors of old picture theatres. Bonus points if you were up in the highest mezzanine rows so that they bounced, bounced, bounced … all the way down to the front. (It was never me, I was a bit of a goody two shoes but I could snigger and giggle along with more adventurous friends. And I liked eating Jaffas anyway.)

As for coffee. Are Starbucks still in Fed Square? I thought they took their bat and ball and went home when they found that people who had been introduced to coffee by Greeks and Italians just wouldn’t drink the awful stuff.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

I learnt early on that my hair was too damn curly to listen to me, so all that creative energy and dashed dreams went into my facial hair 😛

And now I must away to bed and dream of owning a private jet because thanks to this damned chocolate conversation I have a craving for both Thornton’s truffles and Fremantle chocolates, and Cassandra’s mentioning of wine gums and maltesers has sent me on a wave of nostalgia so I need to stop in on South Africa on the way to pick up some childhood favorites.

*shakes fist at all of Mammothdom*

Nite guys

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Good heavens! I’ve made it to the moderation queue. Another gold star day!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Thornton’s! That’s one of the things I miss about the UK at Christmas.

(Is mentioning a holiday affiliated with religion OK or do I have to go to New Atheism Jail for that too, even if for me it’s the holiday that celebrates food and presents, not Jesus?)

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

mildlymagnificent – goonness knows why you were modded, but I’ve fixed it. Probably the thing David’s mentioned, the spam/mod filters going silly when there’s a lot of traffic.

I never did the rolling the Jaffas thing either, but I do remember the ads and the idea!

Starbucks were still in Fed Square last time I was there a few months back. Not all their shops got culled, though I think it was about 80% of them. I see they handed over to the mob who run 7/11 back in May.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

declarative statements detected;
feminists detected;
activateDawkinsBot;
println(“the spam/mod filters going silly when there’s a lot of traffic”);
println(“I have a craving for both Thornton’s truffles and Fremantle chocolates”);
println(“If you think that’s an endorsement of spam/mod filters going silly, go away and don’t come back until you’ve learned how to think logically.”);
feminists==0;
deactivateDawkinsBot;

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

(Is mentioning a holiday affiliated with religion OK or do I have to go to New Atheism Jail for that too, even if for me it’s the holiday that celebrates food and presents, not Jesus?)

Borderline, I think.

“If you think that’s an endorsement of spam/mod filters going silly, go away and don’t come back until you’ve learned how to think logically.”

I can think logically!

Spam, spam, spam, spam, lovely spam, wonderful spam.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I have been wondering about a Woody bot which will just take one sentence entirely at random from the posts on the AVfM site. I just can’t be bothered with programming the html sweep that I’ll need to generate the text file. That can all be done in R.

Ah Woody. He’s like that little puppy that doesn’t know any better and keeps coming inside to piddle on the carpet.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Except puppies are cute and trainable.

Maddie has found the best place to be on a very cold day.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Pecunium, sorry to confuse, and thanks for the pen info, idk, maybe it’ll be enough for him to track it down.

Sweet tarts, never eating those again. I decided to turn the end of New Who season one into a drinking game, “never drink to Dalek diatribes” ended up written on the message board after I just HAD to do one more shot in honor of the Bad Wolf…and then plaster a wall and the bathroom with sweet tarts (and then, instantly sober, clean up after myself). Hey don’t taste good on the return trip!

I don’t know if I’ll ever get used to the new doctor, anyone else watch Torchwood’s Children of Earth miniseries? Yeah, that guy cannot be the doctor, particularly not when Timey Whimey would imply that the doctor CAUSED THAT SHIT.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Generally I enjoyed Torchwood instead of some of the character subarcs, which were like: really, would a person in that profession exhibit really non-professional behaviour like that?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

You talking about Capaldi, Argenti? That series hasn’t shown here yet. I’m looking forward to seeing him. First, I like him, second, I would rather see an older Doctor again.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

That’s so cute, is that a chenille yarn? How’s she going with the meds/food?

Apropos of absolutely nothing, I cannot find the WHTM thread where the best BB cream was decided. I am hoping to buy some, and I am very disappointed I can’t locate the one that people tended to agree was best. 🙁

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

For the cheap stuff, Skin 79. Which one depends on your skin tone and how dry/oily you are.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

In my 20s to early 30s, which is the last time I really wore foundation, I used to wear http://www.shiseido.com/powdery-foundation/9990000000027,en_US,pd.html&cgid=makeup-face-foundation&&dwvar_9990000000027_color=00027_I00 and if I wanted light coverage, I just wouldn’t wet the sponge.

Whenever I tried liquid foundation, it went on way too think. I was thinking of something not too far removed from a tinted moisturiser. I’m combination skin now, with oily T zone still.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

It went on way too thick. I did not apply it directly to my brain, nor did I snort it. That was a Mary Quant(sp?) from when I was a teenager and it put me off liquid foundations for life.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

For Skin 79 BB creams, the orange and the green are very light/pale, pink, gold, and purple are light to medium. There’s a new bronze one that I haven’t tried that’s designed to work for darker skin, but in terms of where it falls on say the MAC scale I have no idea. I’m a MAC NW25 or so if I don’t have a tan and pink, gold, and purple all work for me. BB cream should go on very light, at least the original Korean ones, and can be built up for more coverage.

If more coverage is what you want then you probably want Lioele’s Beyond the Solution or Triple the Solution, but those are both very pale. Missha’s BB creams actually come in shades that you can pick and are OK, but don’t feel as good on the skin as the Skin. BRTC’s BB creams are great too, and the Jasmine Water is particularly good for dry skin, but again, pretty pale. There are also a bunch of fancier and more expensive ones, but I’d suggest trying the cheaper ones first to see if you even like BB cream before investing in one of those.

You might want to check out this website even though they’re too far from you to ship just for the reviews.

[LASER DEATH CAT LINK REMOVAL]

The American BB creams are mostly useless thus far, IMO. Dior makes a more traditional BB cream but it’s super expensive even by Dior standards.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

LOL wrong link. Kittehs, can you remove that?

Correct link

http://prettyandcute.com/Makeup/Face/BB-Creams-c130/

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kitteh, yep, that’s the one. And I’ve no problem with an older doctor, just not him. It hasn’t aired here yet either, so maybe my opinion will change, but he played a baddie on Torchwood and it’s the same universe and I can’t reconcile that. (Older doctor, fine, female doctor, fine, non-white doctor, fine, gay or bi doctor, also fine [though idk about ten! he certainly didn’t mind kissing Jack], etc. previous whoverse baddie as the doctor? Brain overload, shut down sequence initiating)

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I’m a winter, who pretty much wore blue all her teenage years, then branched out to purple and black. Emerald looks great on me too, so does a strong yellow and I can get away with mustard, but anything pastel (citris?) makes me look washed out. White is awful on me, as is brown, and I have to be very careful with red. Strong pink looks great, but pastel is bleh. I’ll see where I lie on the MAC scale.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

White is actually super flattering worn next to the face on me. Shame I don’t trust myself not to spill coffee/tea/food on it and thus rarely wear it