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Vox Day defeats me in debate with brilliant "you're a loser who can't get laid and also women shouldn't vote" argument

Delusional Gamma Style
Delusional Gamma Style

So apparently I just had a debate with Vox Day?

A couple of days ago, you see, a Twitterer calling himself RedPillPhil suggested I was a bit of a coward for taking on an “easy target” like A Voice for Men rather than taking on the leading intellectual lights of the so-called “Dark Enlightenment” like … Heartiste, and Vox Day … who I actually write about all the time.

My laughter must have carried all the way to, well, wherever Vox Day lives, because Mr. Day soon appeared on Twitter and challenged me to a debate — on women’s right to vote. The very notion of two dudes earnestly debating female suffrage – in 2014, no less – struck me as beyond absurd, so I sent back what I thought was an appropriately dismissive Tweet:

Apparently Mr. Day saw this tweet as my opening gambit in a debate that was now on, and replied with an attempted gotcha. Against my better judgment, I replied:

He replied, and I sunk deeper into the quicksand of this ridiculous “debate.”

At this point I realized I needed to shut this thing down as quickly as possible. So I posted a couple of quick tweets:

David Futrelle ‏@DavidFutrelle Jul 25  @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste There is no reasonable reason to deny anyone the vote because of gender. Details      Reply     Retweet     Favorite     Delete  David Futrelle ‏@DavidFutrelle Jul 25  @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste ... and that's preetty much the end of the argument, despite whatever spurious reason you come up with ... Details      Reply     Retweet     Favorite     Delete  David Futrelle ‏@DavidFutrelle Jul 25  @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste ... to deny women the vote. Debate over.

And then, quite literally, I went and took a nap.

Later I discovered that Mr. Day’s possibly imaginary wife, known only as Space Bunny, had weighed in with her own attempted “gotcha.”

Space Bunny ‏@Spacebunnyday  @DavidFutrelle @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste Children are human too. Should they vote from birth?      Reply     Retweet     Favorite  12:50 AM - 26 Jul 2014 Tweet text Reply to @Spacebunnyday @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste       David Futrelle ‏@DavidFutrelle Jul 26      @Spacebunnyday @voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste Yes. Only children should vote. No adults.

I thought that was that. So imagine my surprise to see that Mr. Day had retreated to his blog Alpha Game to boast about his great success in “exposing a Gamma.” That gamma being me.

In his typically pompous prose, Mr. Day explained that his Twitter encounter with me

should help illustrate why the critics of Game are so hesitant to directly challenge any of the leading Game bloggers; despite their pretensions they know very well that they are overmatched.

Oh, plus I’m a fat loser who can’t get laid:

Critics such as Futrelle and Scalzi are of low socio-sexual rank, which means that they have the usual gamma male’s distaste for conflict that has a clear winner. The reason is that as long as they can avoid losing, they can still claim victory in their delusional gamma style.

“Delusional Gamma Style” was Psy’s little known followup to Gangnam Style.

Notice how Futrelle tries to immediately declare himself the winner. This is normal. It’s all about the spin with gammas; substance is to be avoided to the greatest extent possible because the more of it there is, the harder it becomes to spin the selected narrative. They are undefeated in their own minds, victors in a long series of imaginary encounters.

At this point Mr. Day – apparently oblivious to irony– declares himself the winner:

But even in a short, character-limited exchange such as this, I was able to show Futrelle’s reasoning to be incorrect twice, so it is little wonder he does not dare risk a more in-depth encounter with me or one of the other men. The longer it went on, the more inconsistencies I would have been able to expose. Once he realized this, he promptly repeated his initial position and retreated.

Yeah, I’m sure you would have done a bang-up job showing me that since it’s ok to restrict people to voting only in the places in which they actually live, it is also ok to deny votes to women.

This is why we are winning. This is why we will win. Our critics and our enemies have to run away from us every single time we enter a new arena. All we have to do to continue convincing men of the truth of our perspective is to avoid getting lazy, to keep developing and presenting refined ideas, and to remember that rhetoric is no substitute for dialectic. And every time there is a minor encounter of this sort, more people will see that there is no rational foundation for the feminized dogma our opponents are so ineptly defending.

You just keep telling yourself that.

EDITED TO ADD: Just noticed this amazing comment on Vox’s site, from someone called Doom. (What’s with misogynists and their supervillain names?)

Actually, when women see these debates, they choose the strong side. I don’t think they always understand, or agree, but they instinctively know strong from weak, and generally choose strong. But then fall back into confusion without a steady stream of strength, which most men haven’t been presenting them. Game is changing that, from what I am seeing. There is as much hope as there is time. Then again, as things are setting up, a break will be for the good.

Game isn’t just a sexual struggle, it opens up much else in life. Men who begin to master game aren’t willing to be helpless in other parts of their lives. That bites into the need, and want, of bigger government. Zoom!

Ladies love mansplaining assholes! Soon the governments of the world will crumble before us!

 

Click my kitty to see the smash hit new blog!
Click my kitty to see the smash hit new blog!

 

 

 

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

“Are women people? Discuss!”

Nope, sorry, this is not up for discussion by decent human beings. Yes, we know that you guys have voluntarily excluded yourselves from that category, but that’s really no reason for other men to follow suit.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

@ronehjr:

Oh no, he didn’t allow a debate! On twitter! About whether women should be able to vote! Shame on him. I’m still waiting for the day when he’ll finally engage all those flat-earthers and moon-landing deniers in legitimate debate on snap-chat. Then we’ll know he has intellectual credibility.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

Q: Should MRAs have the right to vote?

A: This is a trick question, isn’t it? What makes you think they can figure out how to tick the boxes or use an electronic booth?

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Hey dummies, in case you did not notice futrelle did not allow a debate, he simply made a couple of statements he did not allow with which he did not allow argument and then spiked the ball. How pathetic.

Why was a serious debate about women’s suffrage necessary? In the US, women have had the vote for nearly 100 years. The debate on this is over. In fact, nobody needs to debate the fact that all humans are human and should have basic human rights.

Just because Pox called a debate, doesn’t mean David has to do it.

Bonelady
Bonelady
7 years ago

Mr Beale has commented on his pen name on occasion – it is a play on the Latin “vox Dei” or “voice of God”, but also a combined Greek/Latin pun on “vox Theo” or “voice of Theo”. His name, Theodore, comes from the Greek, meaning “gift of God”. Yes, he is sooooo witty. As to the existance of Space Bunny, according to the London newspaper, The Independent, he has three children, a son and 2 daughters, which indicates a wife. Whether that wife is Space Bunny, I could not tell you. According to him, Space Bunny is blonde, has long hair and has a BMI of 18. Yes, that is important to him. He is Christian, but not Catholic – he calls himself some sort of evangelical. His “debate” with David is typical. According to him, he is always winning any thing he is involved in. I read his blog regularly as I teach a course in human diversity, and he is a perfect example of the antitheis of tolerance.

bluecatbabe
bluecatbabe
7 years ago

The question of whether women should be permitted to vote can ONLY be debated by men who have a perfect BMI and a certificate from at least ten people they have had sex with.

On Twitter.

/s

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

I read his blog regularly as I teach a course in human diversity, and he is a perfect example of the antitheis of tolerance.

Or a perfect example of “Yes kids, humans are so diverse you can find characters like this if you lift up enough rocks!”

marinerachel
7 years ago

Hey dummy, why should anyone take seriously and engage in a debate re: whether women should possess basic human rights (unless they don’t percieve women as humans to the extent they percieve men are)?

Oh, that’s right – these guys hate women, don’t percieve them as people and aren’t worth engaging! Pathetic, indeed.

Should we take seriously and engage in debate re: whether poor people or disabled people or POC should possess basic human rights too? Would laughing at the bros on Stormfront, shaking our heads and walking away, maybe mocking them, be pathetic too? Is it our responsibility to seriously discuss with anyone who puts forth a “challenge” on Twitter whether black people should be permitted to apply for certain jobs?

Of course it’s not because people are human and entitled to the basic rights that come with being part of the species. You may as well be chiding people for not discussing the pros and cons of killing one’s disobedient children.

marinerachel
7 years ago

I almost forgot: these guys find some excuse to give men a fucking medal when they murder their children. When women do it though, THOSE TREACHEROUS BITCHES! THE EVIL WOMEN DO!

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

This reminds me of US history class in high school where we were divided into teams and made to debate whether or not slavery should have been abolished. Somehow it was “okay” because we were debating it from the perspective of 19th century US citizens. Grossed me out hardcore.

pecunium
7 years ago

Here’s a paraphrase of the debate so far:

The paraphrase is incredibly generous (and actually favorable) to Teddy Beale.

– Should women have the right to vote?
– Sure, why not? Voting is a basic human right
.

Is a decent summation of the argument to that point but:
– Should people have the right to vote in elections in places where they aren’t citizens and haven’t established residency? is not.

Beale didn’t say anything like that. He said, “You don’t get to vote everywhere, ergo women ought not be allowed to vote anywhere.” He never posed an actual question in his EU tweet.

There was no debate. Teddy set up “gotchas” for his fans to wank over, as they imagined “the leftists” being crushed in shame at not being able to “best” their talking points. It wasn’t meant to be debate, it was having a public wank.

pecunium
7 years ago

Oh ronehjr: Hey dummies, in case you did not notice futrelle did not allow a debate, he simply made a couple of statements he did not allow with which he did not allow argument and then spiked the ball. How pathetic.

There was never a ball in play. Teddy Beale didn’t “allow”* debate either. He made a specious challenge (implying that David had ever said that his aim was, “engagement” and then set the table with red-meat for his sycophants (in which camp I am going to presume you belong).

When challenged (i.e. women are people, and people ought to be allowed to vote), Beale didn’t address the point. He pretended that somehow being denied the vote in a place to where one has no membership is equal to being denied the vote in a place where one does.

The he had a lackey (or sock-puppet) make a secondary (and no less nonsensical) claim that since some people are denied the vote, based on age, it’s fine to deny other people the vote based on gender.

Then Teddy said, “see how stupid he is, he can’t refute bullshit, so I win.

There is no way to “debate” that, all one can do is point and laugh §

*I would actually say, “engage in”, but for the moment I will use the loaded language you chose to make the focus of your rhetorical engagement

§To which end I point you to the subheader on this blog, Misogyny, [we] mock it.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
7 years ago

With apologies to Eartha Kitt, now I’ve got a version of the Beale Street Blues in my head.

“If Beale’s shit could talk.”

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

vaiyt:

Hint: a dude-only debate about the basic rights of women is inherently an idiotic concept.

QFT.

Seriously, can someone remind VD that it’s the 21st century, not the 19th?

re “gamma males”

So I tried googling it and came up with lots of different definitions (it’s almost as if labeling men with Greek letters and then making sweeping statements about their personalities, sex lives and happiness based on some kind if perceived adherence to masculine stereotypes is complete and utter bullshit).
This guy even argues that “gamma male” is what a man wants to be:

http://www.donotlink.com/aqaz.

Fun bit from that blog entry:

Finally, when women are asked what type of guy they like, a nice guy is usually the answer. What they of course mean is a nice guy who makes them hot and horny.

Um…why, yes, heterosexual women do like genuinely kind men that they find sexually attractive. This is some kind of revelation to you?

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

Lol @ “nice” and “sexual” being mutually exclusive. Where does this idea come from?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

“Gamma males” just makes me think that he’s suggesting that they’ve suffering some sort of horribly radiation exposure incident. It would fit in with the general stuck in the 50s theme he has going.

(Based on his, um, political writing you could not pay me enough to attempt to read his fiction.)

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

I thought his political writing was his fiction writing.

Aerinea
Aerinea
7 years ago

I have a feeling that Vox seethes with envy and jealousy over Scalzi’s achievements, which is why the inclusion of Scalzi as a “low socio-sexual rank…gamma male” was part of his attempt to gloat over the non-debate over Twitter.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

bunnybunny:

Lol @ “nice” and “sexual” being mutually exclusive. Where does this idea come from?

Oh! I have no idea and wish that notion would die! My husband’s kindness and sweetness is one of the many things I find attractive about him.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

Our critics and our enemies have to run away from us every single time we enter a new arena.

Have you tried soap?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Sweetness and kindness are traits that many women find attractive, ime. Which is why when people want to market a male celebrity to women they often photograph them cuddling kids, petting dogs, and so on. Remember when Ryan Gosling took his dog on a talk show with him? Not exactly offputting to women judging by the response, is what I’m trying to say.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Soap is lying, man. It’s inauthentic.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Hey dummies, in case you did not notice futrelle did not allow a debate, he simply made a couple of statements he did not allow with which he did not allow argument and then spiked the ball. How pathetic.

Fuckhead-to-English translation: David won the argument without even letting it ever become one, because he made a few basic statements of fact that aren’t even up for debate! Not fair!

>whine, snivel, foot-stamp<

pecunium
7 years ago

The Teddy Beale/John Scalzi thing is (from Beale’s side of things) personal. Beale was a member of SFWA (The Science Fiction Writers of America, an advocacy/lobbying/social/networking group for published SF authors).

He was being a pill for years,, and then he crossed the line (using SFWA resources inappropriately) and was kicked out. He is (as I recall) the only person to be so ejected (this is in keeping with the idea that SF is all inclusive; we have a problem with ejecting people. The Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society has, in the 80 years or so it’s been around kicked out a handful of people. One for stealing his roommates comic collection. I was active in the debate around the ejection of the third person to be expunged; it was because had been abusing a woman. There were also questions about rape. Like the Breendoggle it was really hard to get his obvious threat to be considered something which merited the club’s response. The main argument against kicking him out [it takes three votes of the attending members, at consecutive meetings to remove a member] was that none of his crimes had been committed at SF events/on club property, but I digress).

Scalzi was 1: president when this happened. 2: Was completely unapologetic about saying Beale ought to be kicked out. 3: Is supportive of women/minorities. 4: Said that Beale’s attacks on N.K. Jemison were beyond the pale; and might merit kicking him out on that basis alone (as I recall, there was a lot going on, and some of this may be conflationary memory about the provocative things Beale did).

In addition (though I forget the details) Beale did run for Scalzi’s seat as president of SFWA (and had, I think, run for it when Scalzi ran). Scalzi has a writing career which is doing well, is well regarded by the members of his profession, and has been nominated for Hugos in both pro, and fan categories.

Beale has been nominated for one Hugo, and only after another author ran an overtly political campaign to get himself (and others of his political cadre) nominated.

That all seems to rankle Beale, so any time he has the chance to make a dig at Scalzi, he stoops as low as needed to make it.

Amanda Winters (@amanda_winters)

Is this real life?

Tzeenj
Tzeenj
7 years ago

@aebars- Prepper or Nice Guy. The former I may at least be able to wheedle some DIY information out of, the latter I actually have fun taking to task.

Alex M
Alex M
7 years ago

@pecunium

From what I’ve read, the “feud” (it’s almost entirely one-sided) had been going on since 2005, long before Beale wrote his infamous racist diatribe. Beale’s obsession with “McRapey” (his oh-so-clever nickname for Scalzi based on completely missing the satire of one of Scalzi’s posts “praising” conservative politicians for advocating on behalf of rapists) is so pervasive, Scalzi was able to turn it into a very successful fundraiser for charity.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

I’m going to vote yes to Mrs VD likely being a fake bunny, because if she isn’t then this happy couple spent the early morning hours of July 19th taking turns criticizing ex-Viking punter Chris Kluwe via twitter and spend most days tag-team twitter attacking John Sclazi. Ah, sweet romance.

Space Bunny seems like a robot “Christian, libertarian, wife, homeschooling mom”. There’s lots of raging about the hateful irrational left, evil gun control, Sharia law fear mongering, anti-vax propaganda, anti-environmentalism, immigration hysteria, anti-gay something, Hobby Lobby fist pumping and links to dire websites like Twitchy and Town Hall. No sign of a personality, humanity or joy. If this white bread Michelle Malkin does exist than she and Mr. Super Intelligence deserve each other.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

I view any self-congratulatory celebration of a Twitter takedown or a tweet-based debate victory as my cue to ignore that person forever.

seraph4377
7 years ago

@bunnybunny: I suspect a lot of people – and this goes double for MRA’s, PUA’s, etc. – never quite get over their teen years, when most people haven’t grown into their confidence yet…not even the ones who seem confident, who are, more often than not, covering up their teenage insecurity with a thick layer of asshole. Still, confidence is an attractive trait, so the confident ones – and the “confident” ones – have little trouble getting a date.

A few years down the line, most people grow up. The people who didn’t have confidence develop some, they start getting more dates, and they begin to be able to tell the difference between people who are actually confident and those who are just assholes. Still, even if the bitterness fades for most of us, the impression that assholes are the ones who get dates has been formed, and it’s hard to shake. The MRA’s, PUA’s and MGTOW’s of the world aren’t interested in shaking the impression or the bitterness.

That’s my hypothesis, anyway. What do y’all think?

Sarah
Sarah
7 years ago

Ahem. I also hate-read Beale’s blogs because masochism I believe that “know thy enemy” is very good advice, and he actually did do an outline regarding the “socio-sexual” rankings on men from alpha, beta, et cetera. You can read it here. Trigger warning for obvious misogyny as well as general wtfuckery.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

@Sarah:

That was… amazing. Hilarious, even. I can’t help but notice that practically every category of male either despises, is contemptuous of, or is confused by women. I also can’t help but notice how every category is simultaneously framed in terms of a college frat party and an adult environment with business executives.

Also new to me is the concept of a beta as a largely happy alpha lackey. Where does that even come from? Like, in what group of people is it common for exes of the leader dude to marry off to one of the leader’s followers? A cult?

The earnestness of the descriptions is what gets me, and the earnest confusion towards the “lambdas” and “sigmas” who don’t follow The Game yet still do well with women. Like, how could someone who doesn’t buy into our oppressively restricted view of human relationships possible have human relationships? Must have something to do with “free weights and mustaches.”

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Oh, look, it’s every manosphere guy in existence!

Omega: The truly unfortunate. Omegas are the social losers who were never in the game. Sometimes creepy, sometimes damaged, often clueless, and always undesirable. They’re not at the party. It would never have crossed anyone’s mind to invite them in the first place. Omegas are either totally indifferent to women or hate them with a borderline homicidal fury.

Hey, I never said that they were self-aware about it.

pecunium
7 years ago

Man, that was something: I do think Teddy would benefit from reading what he wrote in conclusion:


Now, it is important to keep in mind that it serves absolutely no purpose to identify yourself in some manner that you think is “better” or higher up the hierarchy. No one cares what you think you are and your opinion about your place in the social hierarchy is probably the opinion that matters least.

I’m also amused at the faux precision. The, “lifetime sexual partners” stated as a ratio to average (and the “omegas” with the strange status of a hard number, rather than a relative one).

It is confusing that he uses “beta” differently from everyone else talking, “game”.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

@Sarah

Man, some of these comments…

Desert Cat said…

I thought white knighting was one of the defining characteristics of gammatude. Now it’s part of the delta sphere?

Looks like there has been a slight downward shift in the characteristics boundaries between the delta/gamma/omega categories.

Atown, you are possibly describing the sub-sigma–similar to what beta is to alpha. But I think Vox would say that’s just a delta.

This guy needs to read some novels, somebody get him a copy of Middlemarch.

Desert Cat said…

Oh. Yes. That is what your diagram would indicate.

Wait, there are diagrams? I didn’t realize this was so scientific, forget my suggestion about novels and continue monitoring gammatudes with your bitterometer.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

@ brooked

I didn’t bother to read the comments, but based on the bits you’re quoting all I have to say is “LOL nerds”.

katz
7 years ago

Their hierarchy used to have three levels; now it has seven. They resemble Brave New World more closely by the day.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Someone should ask them how alpha it is to sit around debating the intricacies of whether white knighting is or is not part of the delta sphere.

katz
7 years ago

I’m confused as to how “average” guys can have 1-1.5x the average number of sexual partners. Isn’t that above average?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

It’s just because your girl brain can’t do math.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

I think the averages are of different things. If there’s a bell curve in terms of… I dunno, financial and social success outside of sex? Then they believe that the curve for number of sexual partners is skewed towards the top.

</non-snark>

<snark>

On average, most people believe they are above average. I guess even with their theoretical models, they don’t want to bruise the egos of most of the male population by insinuating they might be getting less sex than average.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

I don’t think Vox Day is trying to agrue that if we don’t let children vote, we don’t have to let women vote either. I think what he’s trying to say, though he’s doing it pretty poorly, is that David’s argument that all humans have the right to vote is flawed. Which it is – but David has already said he wasn’t really trying to form a strong argument, because the topic didn’t really merit one. Vox is treating David’s flippant dismissal like an actual argument, then declaring himself the winner.

If I’m walking around a comics shop, I’m not going to make people argue about the best Green Lantern, because it’s douchey to do that to people.

But when they don’t want to argue with you, you can retreat to your personal blog and claim their refusal to engage proves that you were right!

Pretty sure they started with “Alpha” and “Beta,” then figured they might need some other levels in this imaginary hierarchy so they dredged up more greek alphabet. There are even people that consider themselves Omega males, though why you’d voluntarily take that label or why you’d consider it a postive thing eludes me.

Don’t forget the Zeta males. Actually learning the alphabet you’re using is misandry!

I don’t think being omega/zeta is considered positive per se, but they do seem to enjoy having an excuse for their lack of success with women/life in general that doesn’t require admitting their own faults.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

From the VD article Sarah linked:

When a delta does manage to land a second-tier woman, he is constantly afraid that she will lose interest in him and will, not infrequently, drive her into the very loss of interest he fears by his non-stop dancing of attendance upon her.

Heh. “Non-stop dancing of attention.”

I wonder if the Attendance Dance is anything like the Safety Dance.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Now, it is important to keep in mind that it serves absolutely no purpose to identify yourself in some manner that you think is “better” or higher up the hierarchy. No one cares what you think you are and your opinion about your place in the social hierarchy is probably the opinion that matters least.

Oh gawd, my eyes nearly rolled out of my head. Get back in there, you!

And yeah…why the hell does a man who’s presumably happily married to a perfect trophy woman care a shit for being “alpha”, having “game”, etc.? Isn’t he done with that frat-boy crapola YET? And what the hell kind of example does he think he’s setting for his kids?

I guess Teddy-boy just has to do SOMETHING to feel…adequate, considering what a bobble he’s made of his professional (?) life thus far.

katz
7 years ago

I think the averages are of different things. If there’s a bell curve in terms of… I dunno, financial and social success outside of sex? Then they believe that the curve for number of sexual partners is skewed towards the top.

If it were skewed towards the top, then an average guy would have fewer than the average number of sexual partners.

pecunium
7 years ago

katz: It’s because they are using the mean for one, and the median for the other? I think it’s because the omegas have less than two partners in their life (and sigmas have .5 avg) and that drags the mathematical average down while the socially, “average” dudes get more.

It’s so rational.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

@katz:

Argh, you’re right. Momentarily forgot how to math. I think pecunium got closer to what I was trying to say.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
7 years ago

Here’s a natural experiment – Hungary might go Dark Enlightenment…

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-28/orban-says-he-seeks-to-end-liberal-democracy-in-hungary.html

Wonder how THAT will work out for them, and whether Dipshit will start denying it says anything about his stupidity…

katz
7 years ago

I guess we can’t know since omegas are listed as absolute, rather than relative, numbers.

But if you take the old “10% of guys get 90% of girls” chestnut, then an “average” guy (that is, one in the 90% category) would get 1/5 the “average” number of guys.

katz
7 years ago

Average number of girls, rather.